New to ele, a few questions for mythic raiding

[miffy23]

Hi all. I am here to address those of you that think Elementals can't compete in Mythic Hellfire Citadel. I haven't really posted much on here, but will start to make more of an appearance in these posts. My name is Zarmis, play elemental in the guild <Easy> on Zul'jin-US. Currently among the top elementals in the US. I am 12/13 Mythic and currently progressing on Mythic Archimonde. I have been in on every single one of our first mythic kills and I am also in on Mythic Archimonde. Elemental is competitive, you just need to be a good player. Feel free to add me, zarmis49#1267 with any elemental questions.

Oh boy, I wonder how they'll try to guttersnipe you down too ^^

[ButterBeast]

Have fun being carried.

[Prankish]

Hi all. I am here to address those of you that think Elementals can't compete in Mythic Hellfire Citadel. I haven't really posted much on here, but will start to make more of an appearance in these posts. My name is Zarmis, play elemental in the guild <Easy> on Zul'jin-US. Currently among the top elementals in the US. I am 12/13 Mythic and currently progressing on Mythic Archimonde. I have been in on every single one of our first mythic kills and I am also in on Mythic Archimonde. Elemental is competitive, you just need to be a good player. Feel free to add me, zarmis49#1267 with any elemental questions.

Zarmis? Formerly of teamLust on Mal'Ganis? You weren't considered an outstanding Ele on the server when your progression lined up with everyone elses. Do you define how good you are as a shaman by how well your guild progresses? Thank god you don't have any logs to substantiate any of your "top elementals in the US" claims.

If you're trying to jerk yourself off there are far better ways than the MMO champ forums. If you honestly think you did just as good a job as the mages, hunters, and warlocks in your guild then you are flat out delusional. We all understand Shamans can hold their own in progression. We can pad to keep up in the instance meters but we will never be competitive when it comes to effective dps on priority targets. Keeping up and being competitive are two different things.

[zarmis49]

Zarmis? Formerly of teamLust on Mal'Ganis? You weren't considered an outstanding Ele on the server when your progression lined up with everyone elses. Do you define how good you are as a shaman by how well your guild progresses? Thank god you don't have any logs to substantiate any of your "top elementals in the US" claims.

If you're trying to jerk yourself off there are far better ways than the MMO champ forums. If you honestly think you did just as good a job as the mages, hunters, and warlocks in your guild then you are flat out delusional. We all understand Shamans can hold their own in progression. We can pad to keep up in the instance meters but we will never be competitive when it comes to effective dps on priority targets. Keeping up and being competitive are two different things.

No need for personal attacks Prankish. I was simply addressing people who said that nobody wants to bring an elemental to mythic HFC progression. I am not delusional by any means of the word. I wouldn't have said anything if everyone understood that shamans can hold their own. In fact, most people think shamans are absolute shit. I agree, shamans aren't top tier by any means. But, that doesn't mean they don't have their place.

[Prankish]

No need for personal attacks Prankish. I was simply addressing people who said that nobody wants to bring an elemental to mythic HFC progression. I am not delusional by any means of the word. I wouldn't have said anything if everyone understood that shamans can hold their own. In fact, most people think shamans are absolute shit. I agree, shamans aren't top tier by any means. But, that doesn't mean they don't have their place.

Of course they aren't shit. There aren't any classes with only "shit" dps specs. That doesn't mean they are all equal and that frustrates the hell out of people. I don't mean every class needs to be just as good as every other class at everything but the current state is just ridiculous. Mages and Warlocks have specs to do everything better than an Ele Sham. Hunters may not do everything better but what they do better is more important that what we do better. People here are just frustrated at being treated as a second rate dps class. That frustration leads people to slightly over exaggerate the limitation of Shaman dps specs and I think that's completely understandable.

[miffy23]

Of course they aren't shit. There aren't any classes with only "shit" dps specs. That doesn't mean they are all equal and that frustrates the hell out of people. I don't mean every class needs to be just as good as every other class at everything but the current state is just ridiculous. Mages and Warlocks have specs to do everything better than an Ele Sham. Hunters may not do everything better but what they do better is more important that what we do better. People here are just frustrated at being treated as a second rate dps class. That frustration leads people to slightly over exaggerate the limitation of Shaman dps specs and I think that's completely understandable.

Aye, the frustration is. Some of us just don't want the exaggerated claims to be what comes out of the Shaman community.

[Deleted]

Except that the only Elemental who killed mythic Archimonde while in progress (vodka, #23) to this date admitted being carried by his fellow raid members. There's no room for discussion, nor another thread inflated with miffys retardness, on this topic.

Elemental community is dead. No forums, no proper theorycrafters, no competitive players in the top ranks, declared as the worst DPS (both Shaman specs) by Method and others for several tiers, no niche where other specs dont shine atleast as good as we do [except for useless sustained AE, which is not needed in HFC mythic] - and the most important and saddest one - NO FUCKING ATTENTION BY THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM.

Before anyone dares to quote me and reply with how happy he is with his casual guild mates @ world rank 1000. Just dont, please.

[Deleted]

Wasn't Microloft in on Nihilum's kill ?

[Deleted]

Wasn't Microloft in on Nihilum's kill ?

He was.... in their 3rd kill.

[Sticknsquirt]

Except that the only Elemental who killed mythic Archimonde while in progress (vodka, #23) to this date admitted being carried by his fellow raid members. There's no room for discussion, nor another thread inflated with miffys retardness, on this topic.

Elemental community is dead. No forums, no proper theorycrafters, no competitive players in the top ranks, declared as the worst DPS (both Shaman specs) by Method and others for several tiers, no niche where other specs dont shine atleast as good as we do [except for useless sustained AE, which is not needed in HFC mythic] - and the most important and saddest one - NO FUCKING ATTENTION BY THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM.

Before anyone dares to quote me and reply with how happy he is with his casual guild mates @ world rank 1000. Just dont, please.

While I agree that we have a lot of issues needing some address. Our biggest concern is the target switching... Which is why players like Rootzo / Microloft probably ended up being carried in a sense where their Void Star damage wasn't up to par, or their Infernal damage wasn't great... But they're above average players so in this sense they brought the "PLAYER" not the "CLASS"... Their guild allowed that, rather than stacking another hunter.. or warlock, or even another boomkin. We lack a lot on archimonde where Doomfire needs to die asap - Boom swaps #1. We do great on the Cleaving mid fight, but last phase where it matters - Boom void stars hard switch, or infernals GG. Xhul we do great, Socrethar we can even do great.. Same with Manno, but Archimonde is where we are put to the test and we lack in every aspect that matters.

[Deleted]

While I agree that we have a lot of issues needing some address. Our biggest concern is the target switching... Which is why players like Rootzo / Microloft probably ended up being carried in a sense where their Void Star damage wasn't up to par, or their Infernal damage wasn't great... But they're above average players so in this sense they brought the "PLAYER" not the "CLASS"... Their guild allowed that, rather than stacking another hunter.. or warlock, or even another boomkin. We lack a lot on archimonde where Doomfire needs to die asap - Boom swaps #1. We do great on the Cleaving mid fight, but last phase where it matters - Boom void stars hard switch, or infernals GG. Xhul we do great, Socrethar we can even do great.. Same with Manno, but Archimonde is where we are put to the test and we lack in every aspect that matters.

Half of your post isnt even relevant to the discussion. I didnt say that the two Elementals were bad players - just someone else had to play better if they'd be in for the first kill, just like in vodkas case. Its that simple - lose 10-20 ranks with an Elemental, or end up top 20 without one.

Taken equal skill, every piece of gear is wasted on an DPS Shaman compared to a Hunter. You dont just simply equip one for fun, unless you want to reach mythic Archimonde in October, of course.

[binkenstein]

Zarmis? Formerly of teamLust on Mal'Ganis? You weren't considered an outstanding Ele on the server when your progression lined up with everyone elses. Do you define how good you are as a shaman by how well your guild progresses? Thank god you don't have any logs to substantiate any of your "top elementals in the US" claims.

The irony here is that if you're well progressed people insist that you're carried and that your ability isn't defined by how well your guild progresses, but if you're not well progressed/clearing mythic content then you're derided for not having experience or skill based around your current progression.

We can never win *sigh*

[Jotaux]

I consider guild progression to be of higher importance than top damage parses.

[zarmis49]

The irony here is that if you're well progressed people insist that you're carried and that your ability isn't defined by how well your guild progresses, but if you're not well progressed/clearing mythic content then you're derided for not having experience or skill based around your current progression.

We can never win *sigh*

Amen.....Amen.

I won't deny that both sides on that spectrum are true. The one thing I hate about reading these forums is that you guys just complain and complain. Prankish has very good points (besides his idiotic attack against me) about shaman dps being decent, but other classes simply do those jobs better. The best thing I am good for is boss dps in cases like Mannoroth and Archimonde.

[Deleted]

The irony here is that if you're well progressed people insist that you're carried and that your ability isn't defined by how well your guild progresses, but if you're not well progressed/clearing mythic content then you're derided for not having experience or skill based around your current progression.

We can never win *sigh*

Or, the well progressed/clearing mythic content just talk about their experience and the plateau they care about. There's no reason for us (well progressed, finished progression) people to comment on world rank 1000 issues, nor the opposite should ever be the case - but no, we've like 10 active trolls in the Shaman forums to constantly post about how much fun they've outdamaging their guild mates on heroic Mannoroth, or mythic Killrogg, etc.

Then, we've this guy called Rootzo of vodka, world #23 who was the first and only Elemental to date to kill mythic Archimonde in progress. He made this post earlier this year:

Yet again... This problem has been repeating itself. Shamans are not wanted and are never good at anything to justify a raid spot. Even if they have "good" aoe there are classes who bring good aoe with utility to the raid. Shaman? Not so much.

Please give us something to be useful. Give us good damage, give us utility, give us ANYTHING that will justify a raid spot. You have been silent about shamans for WAY too long.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0220510?page=1

Now the question is: what do you actually want? The people who're still left and enjoy playing (Elemental) Shaman are defending and supporting it - trying to get changes.

You stepped down as, pretty much the only, theorycrafter for Elemental - did this actually make you the advocate of what we want? I see your twitter posts regulary, and oh man.. please. While its all happening on your personal account, I wouldnt exclude that the brains at Blizzard still read you. And if they still read your tweets, if ever, then this whole situation is also partly your fault.

You made some nice posts on how to change some Elemental aspects, but you also included some silly compansations (like nerfing AE) which were hardly justified in our case. This is our problem, we feel guilty where we actually shouldnt be - beaten wife syndrome says hello.

Edit: Just read this https://binkenstein.wordpress.com/20...ns-for-legion/ and I must thank you for that brave and long over due step.

Amen.....Amen.

I won't deny that both sides on that spectrum are true. The one thing I hate about reading these forums is that you guys just complain and complain. Prankish has very good points (besides his idiotic attack against me) about shaman dps being decent, but other classes simply do those jobs better. The best thing I am good for is boss dps in cases like Mannoroth and Archimonde.

Taken from yesterdays front page charts, they're 50.000+ ilvl 710+ Shaman around, lets say 2/3 (if hardly true) are both DPS Shaman specs. So you say that ~35.000 people formed a hive mind and complain and complain? Sorry, there wasnt a case to be *happy* about something ever since WoD beta started.

[Deleted]

Microloft probably ended up being carried in a sense where their Void Star damage wasn't up to par,

Actually he told me he was 2nd or 3rd on void star damage on their last kill iirc...

But yeah, what Rootzo says is pretty much the gist of it, even if Elementals do "okay" or even "pretty good", there's still no reason to bring them over a hunter, mage, warlock, and boomkins/sps in multitarget/ situations unless everything is stacked.

At the end of the day, if I have to justify my raid spot as an elemental on Archimonde by what my spec can actually do specifically on this encounter that other specs/classes can't, all I can say is "uhhh".

[Tomikadzi]

Actually he told me he was 2nd or 3rd on void star damage on their last kill iirc...

From behind probably
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&target=278

2nd and 3rd doomfire spirits, where damage matters:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e&target=267.2

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e&target=267.3

- - - Updated - - -

The irony here is that if you're well progressed people insist that you're carried

Isn't that a true? At the point where DPS really matters, aka doomfire spirits, we are getting carried. At the point where noone cares ppl can link us holding rank 6 among all dps specs in HFC mythic

[Deleted]

Well, guess he made it up :< it did seem odd.

In any case, I don't think anybody's gonna argue that elementals are assballs on Archimonde.

[Odintdk]

In any case, I don't think anybody's gonna argue that elementals are assballs on Archimonde.

Don't be so sure around this forum, i can think of one specific entity who would.

[Firebug1975]

Don't be so sure around this forum, i can think of one specific entity who would.

Does his name start with Miffy and end in 23?