Wondering how people feel about their shadow priest..

[Deleted]

Yeah the ring is a big issue for shadow. My other alts and main benefit way more from the ring, and it's definitely getting worse with each upgrade on it.

I'm really disappointed by the way blizzard designed that ring. It's a huge penalty for us since we can't really use any cd together with it and also has horrible stats on it (locks and druids are more than happy as usual).

[Daedius]

Shadow seriously sucks right now, and have been for a long while... amount of effort you put in they still do mediocre damage compared to other classes. Getting fed up of seeing such a big gap in dps between top and my shadow in most scenarios against other people of the same ilevel. Hell, I can do similar dps with considerably less geared alts...

That being said, SP's are more of an "execution" class, with Twisted Fate and Shadow Word: Death... where their damage starts to show.

Nonetheless... doesn't help that SP's have zero God damn utility... wtf can SP's CC ?? No one wants a shadow priest in Challenge runs. Joke of a spec... feels like it's designed more for PvP than PvE. No idea why I'm still main'ing it (Used to be a healer for high end raiding), and have been since TBC.

[Deleted]

Debatable.

With Heroic RoW, you need ~95% mastery for dotweaving to not be worth it completely and with Mythic RoW that goes down to ~86% mastery.

Is that with current estimates or patch estimates? Besides, not many have the mythic trinket anyway and most people (unless they have the opportunity) aren't packing a tonne of mastery gear. In any case, insanity looks to be the ideal choice for CoP at least I hope it is. Dotweaving I'm not too bothered about.

[gaymer77]

I hate the playstyle of it now so I'm disc and my one of my guild's top healers. I hate how they turned a class from a dot centered class spec to mind spike spam. I'm hoping with Legion they bring back the playstyle that shadow has been for every other WOW xpac (vanilla included). But it is my understanding that shadow pvp is pretty damn good though.

[Kulle]

Is that with current estimates or patch estimates? Besides, not many have the mythic trinket anyway and most people (unless they have the opportunity) aren't packing a tonne of mastery gear. In any case, insanity looks to be the ideal choice for CoP at least I hope it is. Dotweaving I'm not too bothered about.

Post-6.2.2 patch. Traditional CoP with insanity sims higher than dotweave. Traditional CoP with insanity also sims much higher compared to mindbender.

As for the gear, BiS heroic profile has 117% mastery buffed already, so 95% raid buffed is not that hard to get.

[Kilee25]

Few things:

1. The Mindbender APL is broken. It's not far behind insanity with RoW, only about 1000 DPS.

2. SimC's default APL is using RoW. If you take it off, the DPET of Mind Spike and Insanity are not above SW: P and VT, and thus DoTWeaving still yields higher dps (even with 117% mastery).

3. Haste yields higher dps without RoW, and higher DPS with RoW+Insanity+specific rotation. If playing CoP full time, you'll end up with higher DPS overall by stacking haste (in t18 gear).

4. Maintaining a RoW DoTWeaving rotations is impractical, but might be worth experimenting on Fel Lord Zakuun, if allowed to stand completely still. It will be a very limiting cast style, even worse than DoTWeaving already is. The Mindbender RoW Rotation will be easier to maintain and will allow more fluid movement. This is probably going to cause some polar opinions on which method is best, and which fights to use it on, etc..

[l33t]

I think some of you're exaggerating how bad it actually is.

Yeah, and in your next line you should start talking about how you're raping meters on High Council, or how much your VE heals during cascade...

...when objectively all you need to do is compare SP's performance to his cloth competitors, and do the math by yourself.

[Kulle]

Few things:

1. The Mindbender APL is broken. It's not far behind insanity with RoW, only about 1000 DPS.

2. SimC's default APL is using RoW. If you take it off, the DPET of Mind Spike and Insanity are not above SW: P and VT, and thus DoTWeaving still yields higher dps (even with 117% mastery).

3. Haste yields higher dps without RoW, and higher DPS with RoW+Insanity+specific rotation. If playing CoP full time, you'll end up with higher DPS overall by stacking haste (in t18 gear).

1. The broken mindbender APL is 4k behind insanity. If the optimized one is 1k behind insanity, that's still pretty significant.

3. You don't determine stat weights like that. The value of haste is not static.



This is with default Heroic CoP BiS list with Bleeding Hollow enchant on weapon (sims higher than Warsong) and RoW using Traditional Insanity CoP.
Our BiS list will not change with 6.2.2 change. So the equipment we use will not change.

If we go by your logic of Haste > Mastery, using haste enchants and gems instead mastery, we will lose DPS. Vice versa is true for losing Haste for more Mastery, but that's irrelevant since we are not using haste enchants or food to begin with.

Now let's see what happens if we ADD more stats instead of switching Haste <=> Mastery.



As we can see, adding more haste will return less DPS than adding more mastery.

Now, moving on to your 2nd point.

2. Why would you take off RoW? It's the best ST trinket, so taking it off and looking at DPET does not make any sense. Furthermore the math also suggests that dotweave will not be worth it at certain point of mastery.

Using Heroic CoP BiS list as basis with upscaled haste for the sake of argument, at 20% haste, SWP will deal 389.5% SP (excluding shadowy apps), VT will deal 351% SP.

Mindspike does 90.8% * 1.4 (CoP mod) * 1.4927 (Heroic RoW) * 1.1 (6.2.2 change) * Mastery = 208.73% * Mastery

To find out at which point of mastery Mindspike = SWP,
208.73% * M = 389.5%
M = 86.60% Mastery

You only need 86.6% mastery for mindspike to have same DPET as SWP. The heroic CoP BiS profile has 117.22% Mastery so dotweaving is a dps loss.

Edit: Graph #1 was too big.

[Kilee25]

Wow, it's actually refreshing and a shock to talk to someone who is even interested in CoP.

....

I acknowledge all that you've shown me, but I'd like to look a little deeper so indulge me for a bit.

.....

First of all, I'm interested in your goal, and how you plan to address fights where one cannot funnel into a single target. Is your plan to carry two sets of gear, and to only use CoP on a handful of fights where you can stay on one target. Or, do you have a plan for switching targets and refreshing the debuff? The answer to these questions would establish some common ground for us.

I will share some of my thought process.

My goal for CoP is to establish a gearset and a playstyle that will allow me to be a well-rounded individual, and to play CoP on all fights in HFC.

In particular, I'm interested in a few different scenerios.

1. AE fights - Hellfire Assault, Xhul'horac. (Haste wins here, and I think that PoF + Sethe are the best trinkets for these fights).

2. Fights with frequent add spawns, but large enough to favor target switching above AE - Kilrog, Manneroth, Socrethar, Archimonde. Iron Reaver on Mythic, possibly. There's a question here as to whether target switching and building stacks will win out over PoF + Sethe. It largely depends on how long the adds live and what your rotation looks like, but I'm thinking if you have to rebuild stacks often, it might harm the fight strategy.

3. Fights where you can single target burn and largely ignore other mechanics, or deal with them without much hassle of having to rebuild stacks - Kormrok, Iron Reaver, Fel Lord, Iskar. It seems like these would be ideal or at least semi-ideal fights to go into a class trinket "dotless mode".

.....

My assumption is that your plan for dealing with these various fight types is to use AS and a second set of gear at any point where you cannot stand and funnel straight into the target, and that's why you are dismissing haste so readily.

......

I'm interested in looking at some logs now, but let's build some data.

First, I want to build two sets of gear to look at. I'll work with Heroic BIS.

Haste set:

head=pious_cowl,id=124161,bonus_id=566
neck=whispering_taladite_pendant,id=115801,bonus_id=118/618,enchant_id=5318
shoulders=pious_mantle,id=124178,bonus_id=566
chest=pious_raiment,id=124172,bonus_id=566
waist=sash_of_unending_anguish,id=124181,bonus_id=566
legs=leggings_of_the_iron_summoner,id=124164,bonus_id=566
feet=dessicated_soulrender_slippers,id=124150,bonus_id=566
wrists=hexweave_bracers,id=114814,bonus_id=118/618
hands=pious_handwraps,id=124155,bonus_id=566
finger1=nithramus_the_allseer,id=124635,enchant_id=5325
finger2=whispering_taladite_ring,id=115798,bonus_id=118/618,enchant_id=5325
trinket1=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=566
trinket2=repudiation_of_war,id=124519,bonus_id=566
back=cloak_of_hideous_unity,id=124138,bonus_id=566,enchant_id=5311
main_hand=edict_of_argus,id=124382,bonus_id=566,enchant_id=5384

Then a mastery set:

head=demon_princes_ascendant_crown,id=124159,bonus_id=566
neck=vial_of_immiscible_liquid,id=124212,bonus_id=566,enchant_id=5319
shoulders=pious_mantle,id=124178,bonus_id=566
chest=pious_raiment,id=124172,bonus_id=566
waist=demonbuckle_sash_of_argus,id=124200,bonus_id=566
legs=pious_leggings,id=124166,bonus_id=566
feet=hexweave_slippers,id=114815,bonus_id=118/618
wrists=hexweave_bracers,id=114814,bonus_id=118/618
hands=pious_handwraps,id=124155,bonus_id=566
finger1=nithramus_the_allseer,id=124635,enchant_id=5326
finger2=loathful_encrusted_band,id=124192,bonus_id=566,enchant_id=5326
trinket1=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=566
trinket2=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=566
back=brilliant_burnished_cloak,id=116175,bonus_id=118/618,enchant_id=5312
main_hand=edict_of_argus,id=124382,bonus_id=566,enchant_id=5384

Next we need some modifications to the top of the simcraft APL to account for the new changes in 6.2.2.

override.spell_data=effect.3283.sp_coefficient=2.20000
override.spell_data=effect.881.sp_coefficient=2.90400
override.spell_data=effect.66820.sp_coefficient=1.00000
override.spell_data=effect.7301.sp_coefficient=0.39600
override.spell_data=effect.165362.sp_coefficient=0.39600

*Source is Tanned in the TC forum in Simulationcraft.

......

Some fixes to the Mindbender APL:

actions.cop=shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&primary_target=0&!target.dot.devouring_plague_dot.ticking&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=primary_target=0&buff.mental_instinct.remains<gcd&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains&active_enemies>1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=buff.mental_instinct.remains<gcd&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains&active_enemies>1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&active_enemies>1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&active_enemies>1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&talent.mindbender.enabled&!target.dot.devouring_plague_dot.ticking&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&active_enemies=1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&talent.mindbender.enabled&!target.dot.devouring_plague_dot.ticking&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&active_enemies=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&talent.surge_of_darkness.enabled&buff.mental_instinct.remains<(gcd*1.4)&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&active_enemies=1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/mind_blast,if=mind_harvest=0,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/mind_blast,if=cooldown_react
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&target.distance<=30&target.distance>=17
actions.cop+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&(active_enemies>1|target.distance>=28)&target.distance<=40&target.distance>=11
actions.cop+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&active_enemies>3&target.distance<=24
actions.cop+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.premonition.up&target.distance<=30&target.distance>=17
actions.cop+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.premonition.up&(active_enemies>1|target.distance>=28)&target.distance<=40&target.distance>=11
actions.cop+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.premonition.up&active_enemies>3&target.distance<=24
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_pain,if=remains<(18*0.3)&target.time_to_die>(18*0.75)&miss_react&!ticking&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop+=/vampiric_touch,if=remains<(15*0.3+cast_time)&target.time_to_die>(15*0.75+cast_time)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&active_enemies=3&target.distance<=24
actions.cop+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd*1.5,interrupt=1
actions.cop+=/mind_spike,if=active_enemies<=4&buff.surge_of_darkness.react
actions.cop+=/mind_sear,if=active_enemies>=8,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop+=/mind_spike,if=target.dot.devouring_plague_tick.remains&target.dot.devouring_plague_tick.remains<cast_time
actions.cop+=/mind_flay,if=target.dot.devouring_plague_tick.ticks_remain>1&active_enemies>1,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1)
actions.cop+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.stack<5,interrupt=1,chain=1
actions.cop+=/mind_spike
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=movement.remains>=1*gcd
actions.cop+=/power_word_shield,moving=1,if=talent.body_and_soul.enabled&movement.distance>=25
actions.cop+=/halo,moving=1,if=talent.halo.enabled&target.distance<=30
actions.cop+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&target.distance<=28,moving=1
actions.cop+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&target.distance<=40,moving=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,moving=1

Haste Set: 72,884 dps
Int: 1
SP: 0.91
Haste: 0.84
Mastery: 0.79
Crit: 0.63
Mult: 0.63
Vers: 0.58

Mastery Set: 72,946 dps
Int: 1
Haste: 0.94
SP: 0.91
Mastery: 0.71
Crit: 0.64
Mult: 0.62
Vers: 0.59

.........

Insanity APL (DOTWeaving). The only change made is to to the mind flay refresh line, to make sure it will start the refresh just a tad earlier.

Haste Set: 72,920 dps
Int: 1
Haste: 0.92
SP: 0.90
Mastery: 0.81
Crit: 0.65
Mult: 0.62
Vers: 0.58

Mastery Set: 75,366 dps
Int: 1
SP: 0.91
Mastery: 0.72
Haste: 0.67
Crit: 0.65
Mult: 0.61
Vers: 0.59

..........

Some changes to the Insanity APL to ask it to cast in a dotless style:

actions.decision=call_action_list,name=cop_insanity,if=talent.clarity_of_power.enabled

actions.cop_insanity=devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5|(active_enemies>=5&!buff.insanity.remains)
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=buff.mental_instinct.remains<(gcd*1.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_blast,if=glyph.mind_harvest.enabled&mind_harvest=0,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_blast,if=active_enemies<=5&cooldown_react
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,interrupt=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(natural_shadow_word_death_range&cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<gcd)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=2|(natural_shadow_word_death_range&cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<gcd)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_insanity+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_insanity+=/searing_insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains<0.5*gcd&active_enemies>=3&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.5*gcd,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/searing_insanity,if=active_enemies>=5,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd,interrupt_if=target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains>gcd
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_pain,if=remains<(18*0.3)&target.time_to_die>(18*0.75)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_insanity+=/vampiric_touch,if=remains<(15*0.3+cast_time)&target.time_to_die>(15*0.75+cast_time)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains<0.5*gcd&active_enemies<=2,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,if=active_enemies<=2,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop_insanity+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&target.distance<=30&target.distance>=17
actions.cop_insanity+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&((active_enemies>1|target.distance>=28)&target.distance<=40&target.distance>=11)
actions.cop_insanity+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&active_enemies>2&target.distance<=24
actions.cop_insanity+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.premonition.up&target.distance<=30&target.distance>=17
actions.cop_insanity+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.premonition.up&((active_enemies>1|target.distance>=28)&target.distance<=40&target.distance>=11)
actions.cop_insanity+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.premonition.up&active_enemies>2&target.distance<=24
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd*1.5,interrupt=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_sear,if=active_enemies>=8,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.stack<5,interrupt=1,chain=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_spike
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=movement.remains>=1*gcd
actions.cop_insanity+=/power_word_shield,moving=1,if=talent.body_and_soul.enabled&movement.distance>=25
actions.cop_insanity+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&target.distance<=30,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&target.distance<=28,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&target.distance<=40,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_pain,if=primary_target=0,moving=1,cycle_targets=1

Haste: 77,500 dps
Int: 1.0
SP: 0.91
Mastery: 0.88
Crit: 0.63
Haste: 0.63
Mult: 0.62
Vers: 0.58

Mastery: 76,109 dps
Int: 1.0
Haste: 1.0
SP: 0.91
Mastery: 0.77
Crit: 0.64
Mult: 0.61
Vers: 0.59

...............................

If the optimized one is 1k behind insanity, that's still pretty significant.

If this is a sincere statement, then I assume you are now interested.

I'm curious, at this point, if you know what is happening, and how we might modify the APL or gearset further.

I have some theories, but let's discuss. I will wait to hear back from you.

[Kulle]

Personally, I would advocate using CoP only on select few fights (I am not a fan of CoP like many others who are vocal here), so I'd recommend carrying 2 different sets, one for AS and one for CoP.

Now, let's talk about simulations.

Simcraft settings: Length 300s +/- 10 percent variance, 1 Target, Patchwerk, Elite player skill, Super low (25ms) latency, Pandaren race.
Talents: Mindbender/Insanity, ToF, Halo, CoP
Equipment: Haste and Mastery equipment sets you provided with minor typo fix (you had 2 x UGoS equipped in your mastery profile :P).
Includes 6.2.2 changes override commands.
APL:
Mindbender - Incorporated the APL you provided + made minor changes to it to make sure simc doesn't drop RoW stacks + not cast lvl90 talent at all while standing still. About 1.5k DPS improvement over the one you provided.

actions.cop=shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pcactions.cop+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&primary_target=0&!target.dot.devouring_plague_dot.ticking&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=primary_target=0&buff.mental_instinct.remains<gcd&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains&active_enemies>1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=buff.mental_instinct.remains<gcd&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains&active_enemies>1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&active_enemies>1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&active_enemies>1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&talent.mindbender.enabled&!target.dot.devouring_plague_dot.ticking&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&active_enemies=1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&talent.mindbender.enabled&!target.dot.devouring_plague_dot.ticking&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&active_enemies=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&talent.surge_of_darkness.enabled&buff.mental_instinct.remains<(gcd*1.4)&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=gcd&target.health.pct<20))&primary_target=0&target.time_to_die>=(gcd*4*7%6)&active_enemies=1,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd*1.5,interrupt=1
actions.cop+=/mind_blast,if=mind_harvest=0,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/mind_blast,if=cooldown_react
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_pain,if=remains<(18*0.3)&target.time_to_die>(18*0.75)&miss_react&!ticking&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop+=/vampiric_touch,if=remains<(15*0.3+cast_time)&target.time_to_die>(15*0.75+cast_time)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop+=/mind_spike,if=active_enemies<=4&buff.surge_of_darkness.react
actions.cop+=/mind_sear,if=active_enemies>=8,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop+=/mind_spike,if=target.dot.devouring_plague_tick.remains&target.dot.devouring_plague_tick.remains<cast_time
actions.cop+=/mind_flay,if=target.dot.devouring_plague_tick.ticks_remain>1&active_enemies>1,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1)
actions.cop+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.stack<5,interrupt=1,chain=1
actions.cop+=/mind_spike
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=movement.remains>=1*gcd
actions.cop+=/power_word_shield,moving=1,if=talent.body_and_soul.enabled&movement.distance>=25
actions.cop+=/halo,moving=1,if=talent.halo.enabled&target.distance<=30
actions.cop+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&target.distance<=28,moving=1
actions.cop+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&target.distance<=40,moving=1
actions.cop+=/devouring_plague,moving=1

CoP_Dotweave - Made minor changes to not cast lvl90 talent at all while standing still. Less than 1k dps increase.

actions.cop_dotweave=devouring_plague,if=target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking&target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&shadow_orb=5&cooldown_reactactions.cop_dotweave+=/devouring_plague,if=buff.mental_instinct.remains<gcd&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains
actions.cop_dotweave+=/devouring_plague,if=(target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking&target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!buff.insanity.remains&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.4*gcd)
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mind_blast,if=glyph.mind_harvest.enabled&mind_harvest=0&shadow_orb<=2,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mind_blast,if=shadow_orb<=4&cooldown_react
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_dotweave+=/searing_insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains<0.5*gcd&active_enemies>=3&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.5*gcd,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_dotweave+=/searing_insanity,if=active_enemies>=3&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.5*gcd,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled&!buff.insanity.remains
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled&!buff.insanity.remains
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_pain,if=shadow_orb=4&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.devouring_plague.ticking&cooldown.mind_blast.remains<gcd&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_pain,if=shadow_orb=5&!target.dot.devouring_plague.ticking&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking
actions.cop_dotweave+=/vampiric_touch,if=shadow_orb=5&!target.dot.devouring_plague.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking
actions.cop_dotweave+=/insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains,chain=1,interrupt_if=cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_pain,if=shadow_orb>=2&target.dot.shadow_word_pain.remains>=6&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.5*gcd&target.dot.vampiric_touch.remains&buff.bloodlust.up&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc
actions.cop_dotweave+=/vampiric_touch,if=shadow_orb>=2&target.dot.vampiric_touch.remains>=5&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.5*gcd&buff.bloodlust.up&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_pain,if=primary_target=0&!ticking,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_dotweave+=/vampiric_touch,if=primary_target=0&!ticking,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_pain,if=primary_target=0&(!ticking|remains<=18*0.3)&target.time_to_die>(18*0.75),cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_dotweave+=/vampiric_touch,if=primary_target=0&(!ticking|remains<=15*0.3+cast_time)&target.time_to_die>(15*0.75+cast_time),cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_dotweave+=/insanity,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd,interrupt_if=target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains>gcd
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mind_sear,if=active_enemies>=8,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd,interrupt_if=target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains>gcd
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.stack<5
actions.cop_dotweave+=/mind_spike
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=movement.remains>=1*gcd
actions.cop_dotweave+=/power_word_shield,moving=1,if=talent.body_and_soul.enabled&movement.distance>=25
actions.cop_dotweave+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&target.distance<=30,moving=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&target.distance<=28,moving=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&target.distance<=40,moving=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/devouring_plague,moving=1
actions.cop_dotweave+=/shadow_word_pain,if=primary_target=0,moving=1,cycle_targets=1

Incorporated the APL you provided + made minor changes to it to make sure simc doesn't drop RoW stacks + not cast lvl90 talent at all while standing still. About 2k DPS improvement over the one you provided.

TRADITIONAL INSANITY MASTERY PROFILE

actions.cop_insanity=devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5|(active_enemies>=5&!buff.insanity.remains)actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=buff.mental_instinct.remains<(gcd*1.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd,interrupt_if=target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains>gcd
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_blast,if=glyph.mind_harvest.enabled&mind_harvest=0,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_blast,if=active_enemies<=5&cooldown_react
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd,interrupt_if=target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains>gcd
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,interrupt=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(natural_shadow_word_death_range&cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<gcd)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=2|(natural_shadow_word_death_range&cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<gcd)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_insanity+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_insanity+=/searing_insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains<0.5*gcd&active_enemies>=3&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.5*gcd,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/searing_insanity,if=active_enemies>=5,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_pain,if=remains<(18*0.3)&target.time_to_die>(18*0.75)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_insanity+=/vampiric_touch,if=remains<(15*0.3+cast_time)&target.time_to_die>(15*0.75+cast_time)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains<0.5*gcd&active_enemies<=2,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,if=active_enemies<=2,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd*1.5,interrupt=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_sear,if=active_enemies>=8,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.stack<5,interrupt=1,chain=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_spike
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=movement.remains>=1*gcd
actions.cop_insanity+=/power_word_shield,moving=1,if=talent.body_and_soul.enabled&movement.distance>=25
actions.cop_insanity+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&target.distance<=30,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&target.distance<=28,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&target.distance<=40,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_pain,if=primary_target=0,moving=1,cycle_targets=1

Incorporated the APL you provided + made minor changes to not cast lvl90 talent at all while standing still. Less than 1k dps increase.

TRADITIONAL INSANITY HASTE PROFILE

actions.cop_insanity=devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb=5|(active_enemies>=5&!buff.insanity.remains)actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=buff.mental_instinct.remains<(gcd*1.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains>(gcd*0.7)&buff.mental_instinct.remains
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_blast,if=glyph.mind_harvest.enabled&mind_harvest=0,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_blast,if=active_enemies<=5&cooldown_react
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range&!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,if=natural_shadow_word_death_range,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,interrupt=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&!set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=gcd*2|(natural_shadow_word_death_range&cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<gcd)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,if=shadow_orb>=3&set_bonus.tier17_2pc&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc&(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=2|(natural_shadow_word_death_range&cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<gcd)),cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_insanity+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled&set_bonus.tier18_2pc
actions.cop_insanity+=/searing_insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains<0.5*gcd&active_enemies>=3&cooldown.mind_blast.remains>0.5*gcd,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/searing_insanity,if=active_enemies>=5,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd,interrupt_if=target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains>gcd
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_pain,if=remains<(18*0.3)&target.time_to_die>(18*0.75)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_insanity+=/vampiric_touch,if=remains<(15*0.3+cast_time)&target.time_to_die>(15*0.75+cast_time)&miss_react&active_enemies<=5&primary_target=0,cycle_targets=1,max_cycle_targets=5
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,if=buff.insanity.remains<0.5*gcd&active_enemies<=2,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop_insanity+=/insanity,if=active_enemies<=2,chain=1,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|(cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1&target.health.pct<20))
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.remains<gcd*1.5,interrupt=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_sear,if=active_enemies>=8,interrupt_if=(cooldown.mind_blast.remains<=0.1|cooldown.shadow_word_death.remains<=0.1),target_if=max:spell_targets.mind_sear_tick
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_flay,if=t18_class_trinket&target.debuff.mental_fatigue.stack<5,interrupt=1,chain=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/mind_spike
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=!target.dot.shadow_word_pain.ticking&!target.dot.vampiric_touch.ticking,cycle_targets=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1,if=movement.remains>=1*gcd
actions.cop_insanity+=/power_word_shield,moving=1,if=talent.body_and_soul.enabled&movement.distance>=25
actions.cop_insanity+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled&target.distance<=30,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/divine_star,if=talent.divine_star.enabled&target.distance<=28,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/cascade,if=talent.cascade.enabled&target.distance<=40,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/devouring_plague,moving=1
actions.cop_insanity+=/shadow_word_pain,if=primary_target=0,moving=1,cycle_targets=1

Simc results:

Mastery set:

Mindbender


Dotweave


Traditional Insanity



Haste set:

Mindbender


Dotweave


Traditional Insanity



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mastery Set
Traditional CoP with Insanity


Switching Haste <=> Mastery


Adding more Haste/Mastery


Side note: Desecrated Shadowmoon Insignia sims much higher than UGoS assuming same ilvl.




Haste Set
Traditional CoP with Insanity


Switching Haste <=> Mastery


Adding more Haste/Mastery


Just for consistency, DSI instead of UGoS with haste profile



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Conclusions: APLs are far from being perfect; it causes simcraft to behave in a funky manner where it drops RoW stacks, loses DPS from not refreshing RoW stacks early, hence delaying higher DPET spells, spiking off dots during dotweave rotation (caused by high amounts of haste) and maybe something else that I am not aware of.

Mastery is a flat increase to DPS, Haste is not. Haste has "plateaus" where Haste > Mastery and in between the plateaus, the value of haste is diminished noticeably to Mastery > Haste.

Once you get RoW, dotweaving is dead for the most part, assuming you have enough mastery. Same thing with lvl 90 talents in single target situation.

[Kilee25]

Incredible.

It's going to take me a while to go through all of the APL changes you made, but this will be extremely useful going forward.

Notes, in mean time.

1. I hadn't thought of turning off L90 talents. Good catch.
2. I hadn't thought of switching out DSI for Sethe.
3. The typo in that mastery set wasn't used in my sims. That was an after-edit that didn't go right.

4. I've been aware for a while that the sim was dropping stacks, but I was unable to find ways to make it stop doing that. I'm amazed that you got it to work, and I will look over your changes so that I can incorporate them into my future sims.

5. The reason Haste is competing with a Mastery set is that the sim reaches a point where it can go to a 9-GCD Insanity refresh rotation, instead of 8. At this point, Mind Flays will be cut entirely out of the rotation. This forms a "breakpoint" for haste. You can clearly see this in your graphs where haste starts to decline after a certain point. On paper, this amount is 1960. In reality you need somewhere around the mid 2000s in order to pull it off effectively in game, and this largely depends on your latency and a myriad of other factors - how well you can play and pull it off, etc...

6. Given 5, the best-simming set will bring haste to the breakpoint, then stack mastery afterwards. Haste essentially then forms a "soft cap" that is similar to what we saw in the past with other spell behaviors. You should be able to beat the mastery by quite a bit, by modifying the haste set to work around this soft cap.

7. The reason I favor haste, in general, is because I do care about using CoP on more fights than just 2-3 of them. I also care about developing a casting style that will transition targets and allow me to build stacks naturally without artificially stopping to re-cast Mind Flays. This will allow me to bring CoP and RoW to fights that traditionally would not be RoW fights, and still see most of the potential damage that we are seeing in sims. This might be a "dream", but I think it is one worth chasing.

8. You are correct that DoTWeaving is dead. I would argue that it's so dead that it's not even worth continuing to analyse. Somewhere around 1900-2000 haste, the sim starts spiking off dots. You could do something like turning L90 talents back on if and only if dots are ticking, and have it splice them inbetween Insanity and DPS, or just at the end, etc... I can do this in game, but getting the APL to do this might help in some way. However, I think it's a lost cause because this rotation doesn't allow for movement, error, or adaptation. I've felt this way about DoTWeaving since the start of the expac, but introducing even more complexity into the rotation is just absurd, imo. The DPS gains would have to be outrageous to even consider pursuing that line of exploration.

9.

I am not a fan of CoP like many others who are vocal here.

Ha. I'm fairly certain (vocal) "fans of CoP" here or anywhere else are in the minority, and rare. It's to the point that I have generally felt like I'm talking to myself the entire expac whenever I post anything about CoP. I'm not sure I see all these CoP fans that you speak of. This is one of the first engaging CoP discussions I've had that didn't immediately end with "No one cares about CoP."

To add to that, I sincerely appreciate you giving this any attention at all. This has helped tremendously.

[zito]

Coming back from cataclysm shadow PvP is the same as ever but worse. A lot of our CC was removed and if someone just focus cast us we are sitting ducks. Requiring team mate peels like always. Very disappointed that this still hasn't been addressed. Oh wait it was in MoP apparently but they nerfed the crap out of it to a worse off state.

My priest will retire come legion and I'll be maining Holy paladin for my healing and demon hunter for everything else because it's been about half a decade and spriest is the same as always.

[Kulle]

@ Kilee

Stacking haste up to the 9 GCD breakpoint you mentioned and stacking mastery there-on has shown a significant improvement in DPS over just mastery or haste stacking.

Power Infusion also generally sims over 1k DPS higher than ToF for single target (if you couple it with legendary ring).

Comparing Pre-6.2.2 to Post-6.2.2 change,

Pre-6.2.2


Post-6.2.2 CoP BiS (Haste BP, Mastery stacking afterwards) & APL changes.

[soulyouth]

a lot of graphs and tables for a how your "FEEL" thread but w/e

For me MoP will always be the worst xpac for shadow, weather that's because it was truely bad or it was coming off the back of our strongest xpac Cata, huge mind blasts and dots that hurt and flay that doesn't tickle, for me this is the core of shadow, not DP.

Start of wod was fun change with CoP in HM for a few months at least, but once I hit the crit lvls for AS I haven't looked back, sure it falls behind over cop in most fights but I'm not in a Top OCE guild anymore so I can get away with playing how I like.

AS is not fun because of DP, although most of your dmg comes from it, it's because it rewards good multi-dotting and swd sniping for orbs/tof. It's a shame it's for procs and not the dots dmg thought. I really do miss VT being a best of a dot, I remember during that year of ICC farm doing BGs in full heroic gear just putting swp and vt on a player would kill them if they didn't get heals, and if someone dispelled VT it was a huge hit, ppl were scared of our dots, now they are a joke.

I like dots that do dmg, I like mb on a 6 to 8 second hitting like a truck (not a combo builder) and flay as a filler, that play style can't come back thought as snapshotting and maintenance buffs are gone and it would be boring as fuck without those things.

[Deleted]

Yeah this is really nice information and stuff but it totally derailed the thread and I think I'm at least partly responsible :P

[Djriff]

Still great information regardless. What is the traditional insanity rotation?

[Kilee25]

Still great information regardless. What is the traditional insanity rotation?

MB (3 orbs)
MS
DP
Insanity (2 ticks)
MB
Insanity (4 ticks, full channel)
1. MS
2. MB
3. MS
4. MS
5. MS
6. MB (3 orbs, the sequence starts to repeat here)
7. MS
8. DP
8.5 Insanity (2 ticks, the first tick refreshes the debuff, and the rotation repeats)

The numbers count the number of GCDs it takes to reach the next refresh of Mental Fatigue, and denote how much haste you will need to pull it off.

- - - Updated - - -

Kulle: I spent a couple hours today going over your changes to see what modifications you made to the APLs. Some notes.

1. I was not using a Pandaren, and had my timing set to 450 rather than 300. This will account for some of the disparity in dps differences that we got. I am sorry, I should have clarified - to be honest I was surprised you looked at everything I posted. I should have been more thorough.

2. On your Mindbender APL, you can increase dps by about 1000 if you make the following two changes. One, have the refresh of the trinket test for GCD*1.5, rather than GCD. The reason for this is that it takes half a GCD for the first tick of Mind Flay to apply, so if you start it 1 GCD before the debuff ends, it will "whiff" occasionally and miss a refresh. Secondly, even accounting for taking out L90 talents, which helps tremendously to avoid dropping stacks, you still have DP->Mind Blast combos throughout the Mindbender APL, and possibly the Mastery one too. For the Mindbender APL, this presents a problem because occasionally the APL will fail to refresh. I can fix this issue by off-setting when the APL casts DP by having it cast DP 2 GCDs early instead of 1, whenever Mental Fatigue is about to fall off. I'll work on a fix for this when I have time, but this will bring the Mindbender APL closer to the Insanity APL. This might be worth exploring if we build a mastery-heavy set and fix any issues of dropping stacks. The Execution phase also presents a problem here - you might can get past this by having the APL cast Mind Flay early while boss health is under 20%. Oh.. also, add interrupt=1,chain=1 to all Mind Flay casts.

3. Some of the same issues and fixes can apply to both of your Insanity APLs, with the same results.

I feel like if I keep working at this, I might be able to bring the Mindbender APL closer in line with the Insanity APL.

Suffice to say, I still think that there is some more research and optimization that could go into this, and it will have to be solidified with practical testing as well.

[Kulle]

@ Kilee

1. Yes, those settings are the reason why yours and my numbers are different, but as long as the settings were uniformly used across all of our respective sims, it doesn't matter. The point of the sims was to compare the relative DPS output by each of our respective APLs, which we did and derived our conclusions from.

2/3 I'm glad you found an improvement to the APLs. Anyhow I think we've derailed this thread enough with simc talks so if you want to continue this line of convo, feel free to pm me.

[Kilee25]

On a similarly related topic, I just took Kilee to a Kazzak and cleared 66k dps without a flask, one-handed, while eating lunch and not even concentrating. This is like 7k+ increase over previous dps levels. I don't think I can even recall such a substantial buff to our class in middle of an expansion like this.

[Deleted]

Well, if we assume you went from 59 to 66k dps, a net 7k dps gain, that's like a 11% dps increase in this case.

That said, there are few things to say:

- Chances to find a good number of people without legendary ring are high doing Kazzak pugs, in raids everyone got it, and we all know how bad legendary ring nerfs us since it gives more dps to others.
- Kazzak is like the perfect example to get the most out of our new buffs, since you gain from everything pretty much and you dont even have to move at all so you can just spam flay/spike/blast/dp repeat and keep priest trinket buff always up. You can use a perfect rotation full time (since ppl dont even move out with debuff anymore at kazzak).
- Nowhere in HFC we can do something like that.

So yeah, if Kazzak gave you a 11% dps increase we're back to what we said last week: in HFC on average priest will gain a 6-9% dps increase which puts us nowhere near the top dps class, and this will only last for a while because (once again) we work in a way so we are stronger when our raid is weaker and when our raid is stronger (maxed rings and almost maxed gear) we are the weak ones.

So yeah, buffs of course are very much needed and appreciated, but hunters mages (especially these 2) and locks are still doing much better. Now, at least for a while, we can give a good competition to balance and shaman dps. :P