Can we start the Varian Wrynn hate already?

[Simulacrum]

First game, guy plays it and draws boom, blackwing corruptor, and sparring partner, or 22/20 worth of stats for 10 mana. We were about even on board by that point, but after that it was pointless.

Second game, guy plays him, draws ragnaros, chromaggus, corruptor, or 26/27 worth of stats with 8 damage charge and double card draw next turn unless I remove the chromaggus...

This is just ridiculous. When your opponent plays this guy, unless you're miles ahead, you either need to be warrior or paladin for brawl or equality+consecrate, or you just lose.

[Ryme]

This is just ridiculous. When your opponent plays this guy, unless you're miles ahead, you either need to be warrior or paladin for brawl or equality+consecrate, or you just lose.

Yeah, so play those characters and win? Doomsayer + Nova is another combo, Lightbomb would often be enough too. If you fancy getting crazy, Twisting Nether.

[Mormolyce]

Man that sure would be scary if I ever got to round 10 :P

[Darknessvamp]

What's the difference between that and being Grim'd to death by the combo or fatigued by a control warrior? Plus it's a ten mana card and if you're going to be playing the long game then it's best that you are ahead rather than even by 10 mana.

[Deleted]

Keep in mind that this card can also backfire really hard. I recall Krip's recent stream where he drew Fiery War Axe, Death Bite's and Big Game Hunter.

[Deleted]

Still not nearly as bad as the gazillion facetard hunters and plalladins.

[Deleted]

Varian is a strong card but it is 10 mana card. If it wasn't so powerful it just wouldn't see any play. It's a 10 mana minion done right, contrary to about a dozen garbage 9 mana legendaries that never get played because they are too slow.

It's not like you cannot deal with this. Equality + Consecrate, Twisting Nether, Flamestrike, that shaman 5 dmg spell... if you play against a wallet warrior you just save your most powerful board clear for Varian. Even if it draws 30 mana worth of stuff on the board you can deal with it the turn afterwards if you do that.

I'd rather get owned by Varian Wrynn in turn 10 than play against 5 facetards in a row that just want to get the most wins per hour, forgetting the fun aspect of it in the process.

And as people pointed, Varian can backfire. The minions get out without their battlecries, so if it draws out BGH or Alextraza you can be pretty boned. Even drawing dr boom is crap, as it does not spawn the bomblets. Bomblets are what make Dr Boom overpowered - if it was 7 mana 20/20 without adds it would be a shitty card never ran in constructed...

[shammypie]

Varian is a strong card but it is 10 mana card. If it wasn't so powerful it just wouldn't see any play. It's a 10 mana minion done right, contrary to about a dozen garbage 9 mana legendaries that never get played because they are too slow.

It's not like you cannot deal with this. Equality + Consecrate, Twisting Nether, Flamestrike, that shaman 5 dmg spell... if you play against a wallet warrior you just save your most powerful board clear for Varian. Even if it draws 30 mana worth of stuff on the board you can deal with it the turn afterwards if you do that.

I'd rather get owned by Varian Wrynn in turn 10 than play against 5 facetards in a row that just want to get the most wins per hour, forgetting the fun aspect of it in the process.

And as people pointed, Varian can backfire. The minions get out without their battlecries, so if it draws out BGH or Alextraza you can be pretty boned. Even drawing dr boom is crap, as it does not spawn the bomblets. Bomblets are what make Dr Boom overpowered - if it was 7 mana 20/20 without adds it would be a shitty card never ran in constructed...

i think if you could get a 20/20 out for 7 mana it wouldn't be worthless and warriors wouldn't be running grim patron.

[Lotus Victoria]

Depending on what class you play, you can remove them quite easily.

[Solmyr13]

This is why my new Dragon Priest plays double Lightbomb. Don't even play Auchenai + Circle combo anymore.

[BicycleMafioso]

Meh. They have to get to turn 10 (barring no Thaurissan bullshit) to do that, make no other plays and not die the turn after, get 'lucky' and pull minions and lose battlecries.
If they can pull that off and you don't have a response, why should they not win from that point?

I am still unconvinced about Varian Wrynn. I don't deny that it's an amazing card, but is it what you want to play? In Mtg, I'd love to be able to play Serra Avatar in all my decks, but that doesn't mean that it will be a good idea, despite looking really strong on paper - in fact, it's a horrible idea outside of EDH/commander in most cases.
But if it can give you the momentum to give you the game, I don't see the problem with that - because it's a scenario they have to carefully craft or pray about.

Same can be said with Patron, but that often has a way lower risk/way higher reward.
Would you rather keep playing Patron?
I assume most would not. (I mostly had "little issues" with Patron. They could blow me out, but I often blew them out both quicker and more effectively than they did. Then again, I did play Face Warrior most of the time pre-content release)
I prefer playing against Dragon Warriors with Varian Wrynn.

Varian Wrynn was incidentally the only legendary I got out of my 25 packs. I don't see myself using it despite of that.

[McNeil]

Offtopic: Does Varian have a special quote when he's played against Anduin?

[Deleted]

Offtopic: Does Varian have a special quote when he's played against Anduin?

Yeah. He says "Your skills are growing Anduin".

[Deztru]

We should rather start complaining about the card state of the game.

Outside Tempo/Rush only Handlock and Control Warrior work. The rest of the cards are ~useless

[Deleted]

We should rather start complaining about the card state of the game.

Outside Tempo/Rush only Handlock and Control Warrior work. The rest of the cards are ~useless

Well, it's still early to say, things may change in the next months, but maybe what Control really needs are more cards like Belcher (really good reliable anti-aggro cards that are still very good even when not playing againt aggro). What we got in this expansion was a lot of non-reliable anti-aggro cards, but outside of aggro (sometimes) most of them are pretty bad in other match-ups, thus most of them aren't being played.

Jousting was a cool idea, but they are too unreliable and when they do fail against aggro you feel like crying in a corner. Take Master Jouster for example, when he wins the Joust he is pretty good, if he always won the Joust then chances are he would be being played right now. When he loses the Joust however and you are playing against aggro you are literally screwed. If he had a permanent Taunt and only jousted the Shield then maybe he would be worth it. But there are many other Joust cards that are just not worth it.

[apepi]

Interesting mechanic on this card. The minions you are summoning are still counted as "summoning" them, though the battlecry does not activate. Varian summoned a Ship's Cannon then a pirate and the Cannon did damage.

[Simulacrum]

Another game, another guy plays varian. Pulls alextraza, shieldmaiden, MC tech; 23/23 worth of stats.

Meh. They have to get to turn 10 (barring no Thaurissan bullshit) to do that, make no other plays and not die the turn after, get 'lucky' and pull minions and lose battlecries.
If they can pull that off and you don't have a response, why should they not win from that point?

Why should they not automatically win if the game reaches turn 11?

And losing battlecries doesn't matter at all. Unless you literally go to fatigue, the minions pulled are just free bodies.

[BicycleMafioso]

Why should they not automatically win if the game reaches turn 11?

Are you for real or are you just trying to be obnoxious?
If someone presents a threat and you do not deal with it, how does it matter which card it is that kills you?
A threat demands a response.
Unless you have a completely empty board and have not saved a board wipe (why?), it is a strongly exaggerated threat.
You have to be in a good condition, you have to be at 10 mana, you have to not instantly die as your opponent gets an entire free turn to do whatever.

Yes, I do expect you to die if you can't deal with that. Just like you would if you are <14 health versus a Druid at 9 mana. Or playing against a Hunter with a perfect curve. Or a Rogue who has collected enough cards to oil you. So adapt and get something to deal with it. It really is nothing different from previous scenarios, except perceived value.

[Jester Joe]

Yeah. He says "Your skills are growing Anduin".

Yep.

I had it played against me earlier, all they got was a Armorsmith from it. It was pretty funny.

[Raiju]

Yep.

I had it played against me earlier, all they got was a Armorsmith from it. It was pretty funny.

Varian + Armorsmith + draw 2? not awful, even if not amazing