"Fix my DPS"

[topapagaramonde]

Hey guys, posting on behalf of one of our rogues. He wants to know what he can do to improve his DPS further. He says he feels like he should be doing atleast 5-10k more

Spec: Subtlety

logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...kings&fight=12

He is 710 ilvl with H HFC weapons (one warforged) and has the trinkets he wanted + 4pc bonus, I have the armory link below but he has a habit of logging out in his CM gear, will try to get him to log out in the right gear.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...a/sidoh/simple

Anyways, looking for some critique he can use to improve himself.

Thanks in advance!

[Deleted]

Just from looking at that Tyrant Velhari log:

Tell him to start stacking vanish with shadow dance because of the 2pc we have now. Back during BRF it would have been best to hold onto your vanish to increase Find Weakness uptime, however, with the new 2pc and the Soul Capacitor trinket it is often better to stack vanish with Shadow Dance to get the 30% damage increase. Sub is currently more about getting big bursts of damage off when Soul Capacitor procs, and less about having a high find weakness uptime.

Something else I noticed is the combo point builders he uses. He has a 75% Hemo uptime, but Hemo is actually an incredibly weak spell. Using Hemo instead Backstab is only a very, very small gain when doing it while you don't have Find Weakness up, but when Find Weakness is up it is a huge dps loss. The only use Hemo has currently is to quickly apply sanguinary veins(with hemo glyph) when having to quickly switch to a priority target like doomfire on Archimonde P1. On a fight like Velhari, Hemo should almost never be used.

Furthermore, he never uses Fan of Knives(FoK). FoK is incredibly strong with sub's new 4set. Using FoK on 2 target's might not deal more damage than backstab, but it generates combo points twice as fast, which means more Eviscerates, which means more CD reduction on Vanish, which means better Find Weakness/Deathly Shadows(2pc) uptime. Being able to use FoK on 3 or more targets is just ridiculous, you will be able to spam 5cp finishers almost every second global.

All in all, the main problem seems to be that your rogue hasn't yet adapted to his new set bonuses. Vanish is now much more about the 30% damage increase you get from the 2pc, than it is about extra Find Weakness uptime. Due to the 4pc, you can reduce the cooldown of Vanish by using offensive finishing moves. As a result of the 4pc, FoK spam is know a lot stronger than it used to be, because it will help to significantly reduce the cooldown of your Vanish.

I hope this helps.

TL;DR 1. Use Vanish on cooldown, preferably stacked with other cooldowns/procs, instead of using it to increase Find Weakness uptime. 2. Abuse the empowered FoK whenever there is multiple targets. Only use FoK on two targets if you don't have Find Weakness on your target, always use it instead of backstab if there are 3 or more targets. 3. Don't use hemo in your rotaton, it's bad. Only use it in combination with the glyph to apply Sanguinary Veins when switching targets and you don't have 4/5 combo points for a Rupture.

EDIT: Currently the best opener for Sub with 4pc is:

-10s Premeditation
-2s Prepot
-1s Slice and Dice
0s Vanish + Shadow Reflection + Rupture
1s Shadow Dance
2s Begin Ambush/Eviscerate spam and then go into your standard rotation

[Pleeb]

Just from looking at that Tyrant Velhari log:

Tell him to start stacking vanish with shadow dance because of the 2pc we have now.

Wrong. You should not stack vanish with dance. You want to maximize the amount of ambushes you get out and therefor you don't stack them outside of pull.

This is the code from the Rogue Mythic Simcraft profile.

actions+=/vanish,if=talent.shadow_focus.enabled&energy>=45&energy<=75&combo_points<4-talent.anticipation.enabled&buff.shadow_dance.down&buff.master_of_subtlety.down&debuff.find_weakness.down

actions+=/vanish,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&energy>=100&combo_points<4-talent.anticipation.enabled&buff.shadow_dance.down

actions+=/shadow_dance,if=energy>=110&buff.stealth.down|(buff.bloodlust.up&(dot.hemorrhage.ticking|dot.garrote.ticking|dot.rupture.ticking))

The bold parts show that one of the requirements to use vanish or dance is that the other one is not up. You should also use both on CD and as such delaying them is a bad idea.

FoK is only worth it at 3 or more targets. Currently at 2 targets single target rotation + Rupture on the extra add is the best way to go, as the damage from Backstab outweighs the extra CP from FoK.

actions.generator+=/fan_of_knives,if=spell_targets.fan_of_knives>2

Previously it was >=2 but not it is >2.

Back to thread tho: He only uses 6 vanishes on a 5 min fight. He should be doing 2, possibly 3 more if he uses them of cooldown. I agree that his Hemo upptime is to high. Hemo is a net DPS loss if you use it instead of backstab. It is _only_ worth it on adds that die quickly and you can't get a rupture on them.

He is also sitting at to low energy levels. As sub you want to maintain a decent chunk of energy to be able to burst out damage during proccs and such. 50+ is my "lower" limit so that I can always dish out some quick spells when I have to. Your rogue sits most of the fight under 50 so he does not have a very good timeframe to react to changes.

Overall I think it is only small stuff that you get better at by trying. His simmed DPS and his actual DPS on manno is close enough to be good. Sub gains insanely from weapons so his bad daggers is his major bottleneck at the moment.

[Sinist]

You forgot this one though:

actions+=/vanish,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc=1&buff.shadow_reflection.up&combo_points<3

Meaning it is optimal to use vanish during your 2nd SR/SD

[Deleted]

Wrong. You should not stack vanish with dance. You want to maximize the amount of ambushes you get out and therefor you don't stack them outside of pull.

This is the code from the Rogue Mythic Simcraft profile.

actions+=/vanish,if=talent.shadow_focus.enabled&energy>=45&energy<=75&combo_points<4-talent.anticipation.enabled&buff.shadow_dance.down&buff.master_of_subtlety.down&debuff.find_weakness.down

actions+=/vanish,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&energy>=100&combo_points<4-talent.anticipation.enabled&buff.shadow_dance.down

actions+=/shadow_dance,if=energy>=110&buff.stealth.down|(buff.bloodlust.up&(dot.hemorrhage.ticking|dot.garrote.ticking|dot.rupture.ticking))

The bold parts show that one of the requirements to use vanish or dance is that the other one is not up. You should also use both on CD and as such delaying them is a bad idea.

FoK is only worth it at 3 or more targets. Currently at 2 targets single target rotation + Rupture on the extra add is the best way to go, as the damage from Backstab outweighs the extra CP from FoK.

actions.generator+=/fan_of_knives,if=spell_targets.fan_of_knives>2

Previously it was >=2 but not it is >2.

Back to thread tho: He only uses 6 vanishes on a 5 min fight. He should be doing 2, possibly 3 more if he uses them of cooldown. I agree that his Hemo upptime is to high. Hemo is a net DPS loss if you use it instead of backstab. It is _only_ worth it on adds that die quickly and you can't get a rupture on them.

He is also sitting at to low energy levels. As sub you want to maintain a decent chunk of energy to be able to burst out damage during proccs and such. 50+ is my "lower" limit so that I can always dish out some quick spells when I have to. Your rogue sits most of the fight under 50 so he does not have a very good timeframe to react to changes.

Overall I think it is only small stuff that you get better at by trying. His simmed DPS and his actual DPS on manno is close enough to be good. Sub gains insanely from weapons so his bad daggers is his major bottleneck at the moment.

This was recently posted about saving vanish for SD in the simcraft thread by Mac223, it is just one example, but from following the simcraft threads closely, it seems like stacking Vanish+SD is the way to go if you are able to, but using Vanish on CD is probably better unless it is a very short difference in cd's.

I ran some sims on holding vanish for SD with BiS* gear, and another set on holding vanish for SR+Legendary Ring+SD. These are the results. And this is the python script used to generate the APL; with the full APL being a list of copies of one APL where the value of %d in the following line takes on different values.

actions.cd_controller_ant+=/vanish,if=combo_points+anticipation_charges<=5&cooldown.shadow_reflection.remains>%d

As far as I can tell this means that it's a toss-up between holding vanish for SD if there are a couple of seconds left until SD comes up, and only holding vanish for the two minute marks if it's ~12 (or less) seconds away.

The FoK thing I might be wrong on, I never actually checked what the exact number was, but I always appreciate the shorter Vanish CD. I would say it depends on the fight length whether or not you use it at 2 targets. If you are able to get an extra Vanish in before the end of the fight, and make use of the 2pc and FW, I would say it is definitely worth

[Deleted]

Keep in mind that you can go in sims from 3.0 vanish usages per fight to 3.1 and that is a dps gain. So in practice you might have gained nothing but in theory you gained 0.1 vanish.
Same will go for stacking cds. You can go from 3.0 to 2.9 but it can be a sim gain because of cd stacking. For actual advice on stacking cds you must have a fight per fight analysis on vanish usage.

[overdose]

You forgot this one though:

actions+=/vanish,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc=1&buff.shadow_reflection.up&combo_points<3

Meaning it is optimal to use vanish during yourr 2nd SR/SD

Why would it be optimal to stack with second sd/sr and not just a regular sd outside of the opener. Afaik the sr doesnt snapshot buffs, so the sr would only benefit from two seconds of the 2pc bonus.

[Holycrap1]

Why would it be optimal to stack with second sd/sr and not just a regular sd outside of the opener. Afaik the sr doesnt snapshot buffs, so the sr would only benefit from two seconds of the 2pc bonus.

there is a tier one talent that magically increases the uptime for that buff. Surprised you didn't know


NVM THEN

[Deleted]

The 30% are fixed 10s no matter what, MoS can be extended.

This doesn't really answer his question though.

[overdose]

there is a tier one talent that magically increases the uptime for that buff. Surprised you didn't know


NVM THEN

You must be new here.

I just had to say it