Looks like the Iran deal is a done deal

[Wildtree]

Don't be silly, just like any deal between two nations it was resolved in an hour at a Starbucks and only consist of seven lines in a double-spaced Word document.

See, there's the solution.....
We need more Starbucks locations.

[Merkava]

There is no better deal.......
STOP being a nationalistic idiot for a moment here...
This is an international deal, that ensures the maximum possible. Iran would have not negotiated for anything else, for anything less.
They already said so.. And if they walk away, then there is no better deal.. Then there's the nukes.
Not saying you're an idiot lol.... but nationalism is idiotic. It's beyond a US and Iran deal.

If your leaders aren't capable of getting a better deal then you get better leaders.

And there's going to be nukes anyway. Maybe a few years later than there would have been. And Iran will be richer, stronger, and much more difficult to contain once it decides to get them.

[Thage]

How do reimpose those sanctions? What's the mechanism for doing that?

You put them back in place? If you can impose them the first time, I'm going to assume nobody involved has forgotten the process to impose them again since sanctions are imposed on troublesome nations all the time.

[Wildtree]

How do reimpose those sanctions? What's the mechanism for doing that?

Putting a trade embargo in action takes but an order from the respective governments leaders....... and bam.

[Fang7986]

The UN inspectors can inspect any site at any time without warning or accompaniment, with the exception of a couple military bases - which they cannot be denied inspection, but they are required to give some forewarning: as precise military strength and position is a national security interest that no country gives up (and Iran is surrounded by potential enemies).

The equipment needed to purify uranium to weapons grade in any significant quantity is not small or mobile, so it's not like they are going to run around and hide their centrifuges in the broom closets: even with forewarning, if it's there and we have full site access, we'll see it.

The US is also aware of the quality of materials Iran buys, which allows them to deny collection of the materials needed to continue their weapons program. So if you can't get the material, you can't hide your construction, and if you get caught you get screwed - the incentive to get a bomb is really really small: they're already a regional power, they just have to maintain it via conventional means.

According to what I've read in multiple sources though Iran has full control over the inspectors, not the UN. Iran hires and chooses them the inspectors just are reporting to the UN which (if true) is like paying a fox to keep tabs on the henhouse and seems like a really bad idea.

[Merkava]

You put them back in place? If you can impose them the first time, I'm going to assume nobody involved has forgotten the process to impose them again since sanctions are imposed on troublesome nations all the time.

How do you get Russia and China to agree to put them back? The deal already contains a stipulation that agreements that were struck after the signing of this deal cannot be cancelled.

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Putting a trade embargo in action takes but an order from the respective governments leaders....... and bam.

Again, the UN sanctions can't be reimposed over Chinese and Russian objections, and any deals made in the interim are ineligible anyway.

[Wildtree]

If your leaders aren't capable of getting a better deal then you get better leaders.

And there's going to be nukes anyway. Maybe a few years later than there would have been. And Iran will be richer, stronger, and much more difficult to contain once it decides to get them.

Do you really feed into that nonsense fear mongering ?
How old are you? Were you already alive when Iran actually once had friendly relationships with the US and much of the West?
If not, well then, that's what was the fact. And getting back to that is of more desire than warmongering. Negative reinforcement doesn't work. Not with animals, not with children, not with people, not with countries.
You haven't learned that yet, despite of the mess the Middle East is right now?

[Xar226]

What a fucking joke. They deserved nothing but got something from this shit excuse of a president and all the spineless fucks in congress allowing this to pass. Don't worry when there is eventually blowback in the future it will be the republicans fault even though it was the liberal fucktards who got this pushed through.

What exactly is your objection to the deal? Do you believe that without the deal Iran would have simply said "aw shucks, you got us guys. We give up now?" Or do you simply believe that war is the only possible solution?

Becaaaaause... option A is basically what happened. They claimed to have given up (rather, they claimed their goal was never a bomb) and so in exchange for loosening up the sanctions we demanded methods to be sure they actually did give up any nuclear program and that they haven't restarted them. How is that the wrong solution? Isn't that exactly what we want? We should have--what? Said "I'm glad, now enjoy your sanctions?" Because that totally won't have the direct opposite effect than we're looking for right?

[Wildtree]

Again, the UN sanctions can't be reimposed over Chinese and Russian objections, and any deals made in the interim are ineligible anyway.

Every nation can impose sanctions on whomever they want, it's their own decision. An UN sanction is just a coordinated effort. Same goes for cancelling sanctions. China and Russia didn't wanna take part in the pissing contest anyway... As said, all nations at the table agreed..... Except a bunch of radical idiots in the US and Iran.

[Thage]

How do you get Russia and China to agree to put them back? The deal already contains a stipulation that agreements that were struck after the signing of this deal cannot be cancelled.

If Iran negates their end of the bargain, should be relatively simple since the deal is then null and void. The US and China especially cooperate a lot more than one would think, because our situation is the economic equivalent of the nuclear situation in the Cold War--if the US and China end up butting heads and relations break down, it'd be an economic disaster for both of us. Also given China's proximity to Iran is significantly closer than the US's, as is Russia's, a country like Iran rearming itself and stepping up their program would be cause for concern for both (which can be used to convince them to reimpose embargos on Iran). Most NATO-affiliated countries can be trusted to follow the US's lead on embargos as well, since those are a lot easier to maintain than the costs of a war.

Like I said, this is nowhere near as favorable to Iran as people want to make it out to be. It's like how you can trust someone to mind their manners when their boss (in this case, pretty much the rest of the industrialized world) is looming over their shoulders to make sure they're not fuckin' up.

[Merkava]

Do you really feed into that nonsense fear mongering ?
How old are you? Were you already alive when Iran actually once had friendly relationships with the US and much of the West?
If not, well then, that's what was the fact. And getting back to that is of more desire than warmongering. Negative reinforcement doesn't work. Not with animals, not with children, not with people, not with countries.
You haven't learned that yet, despite of the mess the Middle East is right now?

Do you have anything of substance to add, other than attacking me? Can you reply to any points that I've raised?

This deal does absolutely nothing to stop Iran from getting a bomb in ten years if it wants one. Obama said so. This deal does nothing to stop Iran from sponsoring terror. Obama even said so. It makes Iran much, much richer, and it makes them stronger by allowing them to purchase conventional defensive weapons, and later on ballistic missile technology. All of which will make an Iran more difficult to stop once they decide they want nukes.

Countries and businesses around the world are lining up to do business with Iran. The deals they make cannot be cancelled retroactively if Iran is found to be in breach of this agreement. It's written in the deal. Russia and China can oppose any UN efforts to reimpose sanctions. That's in the deal too.

If you want to object to something, try objecting to something I've actually said. But make sure you have your facts.

[Daelak]

What exactly is your objection to the deal? Do you believe that without the deal Iran would have simply said "aw shucks, you got us guys. We give up now?" Or do you simply believe that war is the only possible solution?

Becaaaaause... option A is basically what happened. They claimed to have given up (rather, they claimed their goal was never a bomb) and so in exchange for loosening up the sanctions we demanded methods to be sure they actually did give up any nuclear program and that they haven't restarted them. How is that the wrong solution? Isn't that exactly what we want? We should have--what? Said "I'm glad, now enjoy your sanctions?" Because that totally won't have the direct opposite effect than we're looking for right?

Yes, Republicans want war. Some want it to keep the military and defense sector in perpetual war with ridiculous profits, some want it because it will usher in revelations, where they get to see Jesus strike down all the non-protestant humans around the world.

They want a land invasion comprised of poor whites and minorities, then they want them to come back and become mentally unstable unemployed homeless people they can bitch about when they walk by them telling them to get a job.

[Merkava]

Every nation can impose sanctions on whomever they want, it's their own decision. An UN sanction is just a coordinated effort. Same goes for cancelling sanctions. China and Russia didn't wanna take part in the pissing contest anyway... As said, all nations at the table agreed..... Except a bunch of radical idiots in the US and Iran.

They won't. Pressure from European countries and companies eager to do business with Iran to lift sanctions is what led to this deal. Sanctions are gone, and they aint comin back.

[Daelak]

Do you have anything of substance to add, other than attacking me? Can you reply to any points that I've raised?

This deal does absolutely nothing to stop Iran from getting a bomb in ten years if it wants one. Obama said so. This deal does nothing to stop Iran from sponsoring terror. Obama even said so. It makes Iran much, much richer, and it makes them stronger by allowing them to purchase conventional defensive weapons, and later on ballistic missile technology. All of which will make an Iran more difficult to stop once they decide they want nukes.

Countries and businesses around the world are lining up to do business with Iran. The deals they make cannot be cancelled retroactively if Iran is found to be in breach of this agreement. It's written in the deal. Russia and China can oppose any UN efforts to reimpose sanctions. That's in the deal too.

If you want to object to something, try objecting to something I've actually said. But make sure you have your facts.

Ex Israeli military officers stating that this is the best deal for Israel?

[Merkava]

If Iran negates their end of the bargain, should be relatively simple since the deal is then null and void.

No, the deal is not null and void in that case. Iran still maintains all of the economic benefits from deals it made after the UN agreement.

[Daelak]

No, the deal is not null and void in that case. Iran still maintains all of the economic benefits from deals it made after the UN agreement.

Probably not. A country that violates an international deal, with 100% become a pariah and all economic foreign investment would leave, ensuring a crippling recession and possibly a revolution.

[Wildtree]

Do you have anything of substance to add, other than attacking me? Can you reply to any points that I've raised.

All points were properly and extensively addressed.

[Thage]

No, the deal is not null and void in that case. Iran still maintains all of the economic benefits from deals it made after the UN agreement.

And then the trade embargoes come back and their economy starts crumbling again. If they're actually maintaining a nuclear program, that windfall is going to get blown through pretty quick. And that still has nothing to do with the deal itself being null after Iran breaks the contract, because that's how deals work. One party isn't beholden to uphold their end after the other flagrantly disregards it. So sure, for a little while Iran's in a better place economically, but that won't last forever if they're weaponizing uranium, constructing missiles, and trying to localize their economy in the face of a new wave of trade embargoes.

[Merkava]

Ex Israeli military officers stating that this is the best deal for Israel?

I've read a couple. Can you link the quote, or interview in question?

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All points were properly and extensively addressed.

No, they haven't. All you've offered are adhominem's and false equivalencies, saying that the alternative to a bad deal is war. Start with one thing; This deal makes Iran richer and more powerful. Can you dispute that?

[Daelak]

I've read a couple. Can you link the quote, or interview in question?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...or-israel.html

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...ran-deal/?_r=0