Tyrant or Xhul? (Mythic)

[Deleted]

As title says, hopefully we'll kill Fel Lord soon and then we'll have to make a decision.

Which boss do you guys think we should go for first? Most people are saying Xhul is just execution but that scares me a bit. What classes do you specifically need to cheese mechanics (black holes etc)?

Also, with the ring upgrades and everything, is Tyrant still a hard gear check? Should we get the gear from Xhul first to make it easier?

I'm open to any suggestions / tips.

[Tech614]

Tyrant was a gear check, getting to her at this point you should well meet that gear check.

Xhul is by far the harder fight IMO. Yes it's "just mechanics" mechanics with 0 forgiveness where 1 mess up is usually a near instant wipe.

[Lavathing]

Xhul is definitely more mechanically difficult and is made significantly easier by an ideal raid comp (3 mages and 3 rogues).

I think Tyrant is by far easier than Xhul. She is literally heroic mode with higher numbers. Only significant change in strategy from heroic is sacrificing Edict targets at the end of the fight (we do the first three edicts normally, 1 in phase 1, 2 in phase 2) via warlock gateways. So long as your raid is geared (which at this point they should be), Tyrant will be easy as the primary hurdle for her is the DPS requirement in phase 2 (pushing her as quickly as possible to maximize the raid's remaining max HP %).

Overall, I think if you have good gear and thus sufficient damage and healing, Tyrant is more forgiving than Xhul.

[Dracodraco]

Wait why on earth do you sacrifice in P1 and 2. Do you have a video of this? That sounds... Insane. I can understand sacrifising the last edict (around 40-45% on tyrant) in P2, and the two edicts in P3, because they're dangerous... BUT THE FIRST ONES? Huh.

[Overdispersion]

Wait why on earth do you sacrifice in P1 and 2. Do you have a video of this? That sounds... Insane. I can understand sacrifising the last edict (around 40-45% on tyrant) in P2, and the two edicts in P3, because they're dangerous... BUT THE FIRST ONES? Huh.

Parentheses mate.

[Deleted]

Parentheses mate.

I mean in his defense that part of Lavathing's post barely passes as legible in the first place. The misunderstanding is perfectly reasonable.

[Dracodraco]

Parentheses mate.

Gotcha. That's almost gibberish :s.

[friedmudkipz]

Killed Xhul yesterday after 181 wipes, we got Velhari to phase 3 on our 7th pull the same night. Interpret that how you want. Haven't killed Velhari yet so I can't say any more than that.

[Lavathing]

Wait why on earth do you sacrifice in P1 and 2. Do you have a video of this? That sounds... Insane. I can understand sacrifising the last edict (around 40-45% on tyrant) in P2, and the two edicts in P3, because they're dangerous... BUT THE FIRST ONES? Huh.

That is what I meant, we do the one in P1 and the first two in P2 normally, then sacrifice after that. Sorry for the misunderstanding, wrote that at 6 AM before I went to sleep. :X

[Deleted]

I'd say go Xhul first. Xhul is harder than Tyrant but the latter will be easier and easier meanwhile your raid group increases his ilvl so from total time invest pov to kill both bosses I think it will be less if you try Xhul -> Tyrant than the other way around (because you will face tyrant with more ilvl). Xhul is strategic and mechanics and tyrant is just a gear check (so the more gear, the better).

[Deleted]

I'd say go Xhul first. Xhul is harder than Tyrant but the latter will be easier and easier meanwhile your raid group increases his ilvl so from total time invest pov to kill both bosses I think it will be less if you try Xhul -> Tyrant than the other way around (because you will face tyrant with more ilvl). Xhul is strategic and mechanics and tyrant is just a gear check (so the more gear, the better).

At this point Tyrant is actually purely a mechanics check - the P2 DPS check is nonexistent even with 5 healers, and whether or not you kill the boss depends entirely on whether or not you handle the last few Edicts properly.

Tyrant is a significantly easier boss than Xhul'horac at this juncture. There is simply far less you can do that will instantly wipe the entire raid.

[Deleted]

I'd say go Xhul first. Xhul is harder than Tyrant but the latter will be easier and easier meanwhile your raid group increases his ilvl so from total time invest pov to kill both bosses I think it will be less if you try Xhul -> Tyrant than the other way around (because you will face tyrant with more ilvl). Xhul is strategic and mechanics and tyrant is just a gear check (so the more gear, the better).

More gear isnt better, we had to stop dpsing for 10 seconds in p1 to desync alot of abilities during p3.

Xhul is all about imps and fel surges. The black holes are trivial with 3 rogues.

[Sprucelee]

Xhul is more forgiving than people make out. Killed it with 1 Rogue and 1 Mage. It is such a short fight, if you just handle surges well in the first half you can power though the last half with quite a few different classes handling chains/holes, just get to 20% with 18+ people and win.

[theyanger]

Xhul is more forgiving than people make out. Killed it with 1 Rogue and 1 Mage. It is such a short fight, if you just handle surges well in the first half you can power though the last half with quite a few different classes handling chains/holes, just get to 20% with 18+ people and win.

None of that has anything to do with the part where Tyrant is vastly simpler
Xhul has a very high price for failure, the only mechanic that has that on Tyrant are the last couple Edicts. Very few mistakes earlier in the fight are relevant at all. Xhul snowballs quickly.

[Pleeb]

We killed tyrant in 50'ish wipes and Xhul in 170 or so
Xhul is mechanically MUCH harder than Tyrant, but also drops more valuable items (Tier, weapons, rings) and you also need to kill that sucker in the end. If you have 2 DK's you can rotate grips on 2/3 imp-waves and single-interrupt every third wave. Having DK's for this aspect makes it so much easier (Imp fireballs drops flame). Not to mention the insane corpse-run to Tyrant. I think in the end it does not matter which of them you go for first but we started with xhul partly because of the better drops and partly BECAUSE REASONS!

As several people mentioned Xhul is very unforgiving. One failed void-jump, a missed taunt or dropping fire / shadow bad is pretty much a wipe during progress. Focusing on managing the surges and Voids should be the nr1 prio. We use hunters and resto druids to kite the voids as they are less punished by movement than others.

We use a mix or rogues (Cheat death) and warlocks (Dark Bargain) for soaking the black hole. 3 rogues can rotate this, if you use warlocks you need 4 ppl in total due to Dark Bargain CD. DK's can also soak it with their cheat death-thingabobby. Having 3 mages on this fight practically removes one of the harder mechanics (Empowered Fel Chains. If your mage uses evansce when he casts on him / her the ability does not get applied and you avoid it).

Edit: Xhul is a more entertaining encounter as there are more mechanics to learn, handle and (as a rogue) abuse!

[Overdispersion]

If your bait team is competent Xhul will be a joke. The only wipes we had during progress were pretty much due to chains going on wrong people and the wrong people breaking it wrongly because they didn't bother learning the parts of the encounter that were "assigned to others". Tyrant wasn't hard either if you didn't have stupid deaths in p1 and p2 and had spare combat resses for tanks in p3. Honestly I don't think it matters which one you choose to do first since Mannoroth is a brick wall compared to the aforementioned bosses.

[Wilderness]

We did Xhul first (killed last week) and expect to kill Tyrant this week. Had 58 wipes on Xhul but the majority of those were people being stupid on heroic mechanics like not dropping fire in the right spot or getting out of void step. Its not at all a hard fight mechanically, there isn't much of a difference in how you do it on heroic, but it does require pretty solid execution and we just sucked at it for a while. We had 2 rogues, 2 mages, and 2 DKs so not a perfect comp but a decent one for the fight. I'm pretty sure we killed it the first time we got to the final burn. I do expect less wipes on Tyrant (we're at 15 right now) , but Xhul drops better gear. Had we been on the ball I think it should only have been a 20-30 wipe fight at the most.

[galaxyquest]

Xhul is more fun ^_^

[Tojara]

We did Xhul first because it dropped better gear and we didn't have to do the fucking Tyrant trash right away.

Attempt wise Tyrant took a few more attempts, but I attribute that solely to people being terrible at clicking portals when they are suppose too.

They are both fairly short encounters, so that's a plus. We had a really good composition for Xhul so that probably sways my opinion a bit. Tyrant is pretty straight forward and barely changes aside from sacrificing later edicts via portals. The only thing really annoying about Tyrant is if your DPS isn't consistent between attempts, it leads to those pre-placed portals not being necessarily in the right place for phase 3. Can be worked around obviously (by throttling DPS to make up for it) or by having a warlock go ahead of the group to place a new one down to account for it.

As long as chains don't explode and people don't get hit by the voidwalkers (which is probably going to be 90% of wipes) you can be pretty sloppy with Xhul as a whole. We have had kills where the encounter was fucked up right from the start with missed interrupts/etc, which resulted in us not being able to safely clear fire. All of this ends up being fine though because the encounter is only four to five minutes, meaning even in the worst case scenario you will usually have plenty of room.

[primalmatter]

Tyrant is easier xhul however has far better drops. So it kinda factors into what you think your team is capable of and long term gains versus short.