SgtMaj Speaks Up About Women in Infantry Study

[Alvito]

Sadly, after all this man has given, that's probably what will happen, even if he was right.

No one likes the truth.

There are certain ways to go about things and throwing the Secretary of the Navy under the bus isn't one of them. I do agree with most of what he said though. When lives are on the line you have the best people for the job doing it. You don't gender norm or put some affirmative action in place. Risking lives and safety due to some random quota is negligence.

[GodlyBob]

Unless I'm mistaken, won't any branch of the military accept any applicant who passes minimal requirements? They're not the military police from attack on titan, only taking the top 10 per class, if you show minimal proficiency, you're in. If that's the case, there is no reason to bar people based on gender if they meet these minimums. And if we start denying those who only squeak by on the premise that their performance was too close to that minimal line, the why isn't that line higher?

[buck008]

Women wanted an equal chance to apply, sounds like that opportunity was given. The only problem that I have here is that he says women shouldn't be considered for the infantry until they have to register for the draft, then the last time this came up Congress specifically said that women aren't drafted because they can't serve in the infantry. That circular logic needs to break at some point.

[Alvito]

Unless I'm mistaken, won't any branch of the military accept any applicant who passes minimal requirements? They're not the military police from attack on titan, only taking the top 10 per class, if you show minimal proficiency, you're in. If that's the case, there is no reason to bar people based on gender if they meet these minimums. And if we start denying those who only squeak by on the premise that their performance was too close to that minimal line, the why isn't that line higher?

They have lower standards for women in a lot of cases, when they don't gender norm the females often fall way behind as a whole.

[Deleted]

Unless I'm mistaken, won't any branch of the military accept any applicant who passes minimal requirements? They're not the military police from attack on titan, only taking the top 10 per class, if you show minimal proficiency, you're in. If that's the case, there is no reason to bar people based on gender if they meet these minimums. And if we start denying those who only squeak by on the premise that their performance was too close to that minimal line, the why isn't that line higher?

Indeed. Even the best army in the world will stil have a lowest 5%. Yes, there are some unavoidable biology factors which give guys an edge in combat, but women can and do still pass the requirements so that should be the end of that. Pretty sure every woman in the military could beat me in a fight. Would this Sergeant rather I took one of their places?

[Revi]

Indeed. Even the best army in the world will stil have a lowest 5%. Yes, there are some unavoidable biology factors which give guys an edge in combat, but women can and do still pass the requirements so that should be the end of that. Pretty sure every woman in the military could beat me in a fight. Would this Sergeant rather I took one of their places?

He's not advocating taking random untrained men off the streets to replace them, no. Nowhere did he say all men were qualified.

[Deleted]

What was the study about? I am getting rather confused by all the acronyms.

[Realsykes]

No, I'm saying he's wrong for saying that women shouldn't be infantry just because they're women. He admits females passed the training. He's saying they still shouldn't be allowed in infantry, and shouldn't be drafted, because they're women.

No one, "passed" anything in this study, this study showed that even the BEST females could only match the bottom 5% of the males.

As for the two females who passed ranger? They're outliers, given that they've both been in for a while, and have had access to the top of the line training, not to mention they were just physically gifted as individuals. THEN they went to ranger school. Also, it's like the shark attack effect. Want to know why you hear about Shark attacks in places like Wyoming and Colorado? States so far away and completely irrelevant as far as shark attack awareness goes? Because it. never. happens.

This is the first time in history this has happened, it's a big deal, that doesn't suddenly mean there are tons of females out there hiding all this time who can throw around with the likes of these two. They were a special case.

[Deleted]

He's not advocating taking random untrained men off the streets to replace them, no. Nowhere did he say all men were qualified.

Yeah that was a joke.

[Ferg]

What was the study about? I am getting rather confused by all the acronyms.

whether or not women could adequately serve as infantrymen

outcome: not even close

[Realsykes]

There are certain ways to go about things and throwing the Secretary of the Navy under the bus isn't one of them. I do agree with most of what he said though. When lives are on the line you have the best people for the job doing it. You don't gender norm or put some affirmative action in place. Risking lives and safety due to some random quota is negligence.

If the SotN was already dead set on making changes, I'm PRETTTTYYY sure it's implied he was talked to, multiple times, probably from several different, high ranking officials, that what he's about to do is fucked up, yet he's doing it anyways.

[Deleted]

whether or not women could adequately serve as infantrymen

outcome: not even close

Well, then I guess they can't. Not sure what the message is for then? Or did I miss something here?

[Ferg]

Well, then I guess they can't. Not sure what the message is for then? Or did I miss something here?

feminazis think women are totally equal to men in all aspects and cannot accept the reality that they are smaller and weaker

[Realsykes]

Well, then I guess they can't. Not sure what the message is for then? Or did I miss something here?

People advocating women should still be put in the infantry because, "equality."

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Having spent 5 years in the military myself, that statement says a whole lot more about you then it does the women in question.

Haha, same thoughts

[Bryntrollian]

feminazis think women are totally *Superior* to men in all aspects and cannot accept the reality that they are smaller and weaker

That is the word you were actually looking for

[Deleted]

Having spent 5 years in the military myself, that statement says a whole lot more about you then it does the women in question.

That I'm short, don't have much muscle and spend a lot of my time sitting on my laptop? Yes it does. Again it was mostly just a joke, but the point is that you can't make complete blanket statements. Women have passed the required tests that should be the end of it. There are also men in that lower five percent and you don't see this Sergeant dude suggesting they shouldn't be allowed in the infantry.

[Deleted]

feminazis think women are totally equal to men in all aspects and cannot accept the reality that they are smaller and weaker

But if the study said that, why make more out of it? Surely if one finds something foolish, caring for it would make you an even bigger fool.

[enragedgorilla]

I'm a little shocked that he was allowed to blast the Secretary of the Navy like that. When you're in the military you can get in trouble with things you do and say on social media especially publicly bad mouthing basically one of the top of the chain of command(just under 2 people then the president).

However, I do enjoy that he is in fact saying the study was 100% valid. The females weren't your average dumpy Jane working Logistics and barely passing her fitness tests. They got the cream of the crop females involved and they still failed.

Odds are he is "ranked out" as high on the ladder as he will get, serving that long he is close to or at retirement age/time. So ...yeah, not a great thing to say to the "boss" however ..I do not see much coming of it, he will be forced out ,get his pension and still have said what he thought/sees as right.

I would like to follow this though...the backlash from the "public" and the Navy higher ups will be amusing/astounding to watch come down on this Devil Dog.
Esp. since he was in the loop that was conducting this "experiment" even though the Sec of the Navy had already "made it so" ....mind made up before you perform an experiment? Not a very good scientific structure there...and a colossal waste of money and resources to boot.

I am not against all humans serving in a front line combat position, there just needs to be an = minimum standard for all and if you do not meet it ....sorry, try again or wash out.
If the line is too high then it needs to be lowered for ALL humans, if it is at an already fair level then...it needs to maintain it's integrity and not allow anyone not up to the standard to wash out.
Not everyone gets a trophy (esp in combat!) we can't all be the hero.

[Realsykes]

That I'm short, don't have much muscle and spend a lot of my time sitting on my laptop? Yes it does. Again it was mostly just a joke, but the point is that you can't make complete blanket statements. Women have passed the required tests that should be the end of it. There are also men in that lower five percent and you don't see this Sergeant dude suggesting they shouldn't be allowed in the infantry.

Okay well, this is the real world, with real life problems, not some SJW convention.

You can and SHOULD make blanket statements to be on the safe side, unless you room to form for a slip up in case you try something different.

Example: If someone is a registered pedophile, but they say he was rehabilitated, do you as a business owner still want him as an employee, even when you deal with children in said business?

But he's rehabilitated they said!

Most sane people will say, "fuck no get him out of here." Then you have young, naive business owners who MAY give a chance. Probably not.

You just judged him/stereotyped/blanketed all pedophiles.

TL;DR

Stereotypes/blanketing exists for a reason, because on mass scales endeavors, it works.

[GodlyBob]

They have lower standards for women in a lot of cases, when they don't gender norm the females often fall way behind as a whole.

Specifically, what are these different standards? I hear people being it up, but never the actual differences.

That, and you don't need 50% representation of the genders in the military. You don't need 10%. But if only 2% can pass they physical requirements, why would you deny then?