Chen lives matter

[Mormolyce]

Warrior daily. Need to pick a new Warrior to get to level 9. I scan the options and think hmm, haven't played Chen in like 6 months, what the hell. This is the game I had.



I mean okay, my team was complete rubbish and the enemy team had stuns coming out their asses, I'm not the world's best Warrior and long out of practice with Chen, I never got high enough to even unlock Pressure Point, Muradin made it his mission in life to follow me to every lane and stun me on cooldown, but still.

Chen, the first hero I ever bought

Please Blizzard. He's not "in a good place right now".

[Nikkaszal]

Mmmm he's good for fun. I still play Chen when my buddy is doing some Abathur games. Had a really good one tonight actually - people really underestimate you because lolChen and all of a sudden you've got a hat on you doing tons of damage, you don't die and they CAN. NOT. ESCAPE. EVER.

You had a RUBBISH matchup with that team though. Muradin, Uther and Raynor...

[Mormolyce]

Yeah. Had a good game right after, only slightly below my teammates on hero damage.

Still. Even when he's not hard countered (by stuns, which aren't exactly rare, stuns counter everyone) he's pretty weak.

[DeadmanWalking]

When you run into someone who is extremely good with him it can be quite annoying, especially when the little bastard splits into three with full health, you kill them down and Chen pops out of their butt with the health he had going in.

I also wondered what it would be like to have the vikings, 3 chen, rexxar & Misha, Abathur duplicating Rexxar & Misha and anyone else that can create another healthpool target going ham on the enemy group.

[Mormolyce]

He is good at staying alive (even then I'd rather take Johanna if I want tanky), the problem is, not much else. And the barrel ulti is one of the few things he brings to the table if it's clutch enough, all the split ulti does is waste more of the enemy's time if they aren't smart enough to walk past you and kill your squishies.

You spend so much time drinking that you do very little damage overall, and one stun - boom. It's okay for him to have these down sides he just really needs more of an up side. Straight up buffing his damage would be a start.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Make his drink shield akin to Johanna, where it'd be counter-productive for the enemy to focus their fire on Chen (since he'd have such a large, regenerating shield while drinking), but he'd be vulnerable to a stun. Would give him more survivability, which would pair well with his disruption themed playstyle.

[Mormolyce]

Make his drink shield akin to Johanna, where it'd be counter-productive for the enemy to focus their fire on Chen (since he'd have such a large, regenerating shield while drinking), but he'd be vulnerable to a stun. Would give him more survivability, which would pair well with his disruption themed playstyle.

I agree, that would be a nice change.

[Deleted]

Make his drink shield akin to Johanna, where it'd be counter-productive for the enemy to focus their fire on Chen (since he'd have such a large, regenerating shield while drinking), but he'd be vulnerable to a stun. Would give him more survivability, which would pair well with his disruption themed playstyle.

isnt that already the case ? ie useless to use base attacks on him while drinking and hes weak to stuns and everything because hes stationary while doing that

increasing his shield generation while drinking even more doesnt change the main weakness of being a stationary target that does nothing

[Nikkaszal]

Bolder Flavour, Chug and Combat Stance should be rolled into his baseline D. I would also advocate lowering its cooldown and duration to 3 seconds.

Less standing around drinking, more quick sips here and there to regenerate Brew and give yourself a shield boost.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

isnt that already the case ? ie useless to use base attacks on him while drinking and hes weak to stuns and everything because hes stationary while doing that

ATM he doesn't regen a large enough shield to protect him; a teamfight can easily have two or so heroes simply concentrate on Chen and break through his shields very quickly.

increasing his shield generation while drinking even more doesnt change the main weakness of being a stationary target that does nothing

Does nothing? He has to drink to do something. I'm not sure what your getting at; the shield pretty much forces the enemy to change targets while allowing Chen to become stronger for a teamfight, which makes him annoying and tempts the enemy into targeting him anyways, therefore accomplishing the tank's job of drawing fire. Also, he also becomes effectively a mobile barricade while drinking, able to help block hallways, trap foes or protect a retreat.

[Nikkaszal]

ATM he doesn't regen a large enough shield to protect him; a teamfight can easily have two or so heroes simply concentrate on Chen and break through his shields very quickly.



Does nothing? He has to drink to do something. I'm not sure what your getting at; the shield pretty much forces the enemy to change targets while allowing Chen to become stronger for a teamfight, which makes him annoying and tempts the enemy into targeting him anyways, therefore accomplishing the tank's job of drawing fire. Also, he also becomes effectively a mobile barricade while drinking, able to help block hallways, trap foes or protect a retreat.

Chen is never a tempting target, not sure what you're on about here. You can stand there and let him drink to full and it won't matter because the shield only lasts two seconds after he stops.

And while he's drinking, what's he doing?

NOOOOOOTHIIIIING.

[Mormolyce]

Honestly he'd be hardly any better if the shields were permanent.

And yeah, he can bodyblock, but you're really in a bad place as a hero if your only contribution is your fat ass.

The downtime while drinking is absolutely the problem. It's why he contributes so little damage and also why he's often vulnerable shields or no shields. Now you can't just take that away because it's his thing, but he needs more of an up side to counterbalance the downside. You could start by buffing the damage he does when he isn't drinking. Flame breath requires two separate skillshots to even land even when you aren't drinking, it should hurt a lot more. That would help. And I know he already has Keg Smash but Pressure Point is so amazing it should pretty much be baseline. It makes or breaks him still.

[Pucek]

Well, wonder if the changes in upcoming Medic patch will help enough.

As you mentioned he's biggest problem is that when he tanks he does nothing to enemy team so they can outright ignore him. The only danger he poses is to enemy squishy assassins in late game and only if he builds somewhat into dmg.

[PosPosPos]

He is good at staying alive (even then I'd rather take Johanna if I want tanky), the problem is, not much else. And the barrel ulti is one of the few things he brings to the table if it's clutch enough, all the split ulti does is waste more of the enemy's time if they aren't smart enough to walk past you and kill your squishies.

You spend so much time drinking that you do very little damage overall, and one stun - boom. It's okay for him to have these down sides he just really needs more of an up side. Straight up buffing his damage would be a start.

Hero hitboxes in this game are ridiculously huge, bodyblocking is an actual viable strategy. Not many heroes get to waltz over models, and if they do they are generally overcommitting and easy to punish.

[Nikkaszal]

Well, wonder if the changes in upcoming Medic patch will help enough.

As you mentioned he's biggest problem is that when he tanks he does nothing to enemy team so they can outright ignore him. The only danger he poses is to enemy squishy assassins in late game and only if he builds somewhat into dmg.

The only thing that's standing out is the CD redux on D at 16 which SOMEWHAT alleviates the fact that interrupting his drink makes him go splat... but it's on tier 16, which is notoriously bloated with "mandatory" Chen talents.

Apart from that, he got a VERY small damage boost and some CD knocked off his ults, but they haven't addressed the fact that Chen still has to spend far too much time stationary and doing nothing.

[Sir Andy]

I'm dying to play around with the new Chen. I don't think he'll be a meta mainstay, but you should at least be able to pick him without being flamed by your team with people threatening to AFK/feed.

[Pucek]

The only thing that's standing out is the CD redux on D at 16 which SOMEWHAT alleviates the fact that interrupting his drink makes him go splat... but it's on tier 16, which is notoriously bloated with "mandatory" Chen talents.

Apart from that, he got a VERY small damage boost and some CD knocked off his ults, but they haven't addressed the fact that Chen still has to spend far too much time stationary and doing nothing.

Well, yeah, those changes are pretty damn small, but its a start. For months Chen was outright ignored by devs and his playability fell to the bottomless pit. Heck previously even the bug on his Q took quite a while to fix whereas other heroes see fixes almost immediately.

They don't fix all his problems, sure but they definitely help somewhat to make him not a flame choice (as Sir Andy said).

[Mormolyce]

I'll reserve judgement but honestly nothing in the patch notes makes me think he'll be much different.

[NoiseTank13]

Well I played some Chen on the PTR.

While everyone else and their mother are also testing out the other warrior changes, ETC/Stitches/Diablo etc., I found myself actually kind of pleasantly surprised with Chen. He's one hell of a Morales/any backline squishy bully. I pushed many healers and DPS away from fights just from my presence alone. Talenting Keg Smash and Fire Breath results into actual threatening damage.

He will NOT be in any way a viable solo warrior. I will say he now makes a decent second warrior.

I will also throw in the caveat that many people seem to be used to ignoring Chen. You can't do that anymore now.

[Pucek]

Well I played some Chen on the PTR.

While everyone else and their mother are also testing out the other warrior changes, ETC/Stitches/Diablo etc., I found myself actually kind of pleasantly surprised with Chen. He's one hell of a Morales/any backline squishy bully. I pushed many healers and DPS away from fights just from my presence alone. Talenting Keg Smash and Fire Breath results into actual threatening damage.

He will NOT be in any way a viable solo warrior. I will say he now makes a decent second warrior.

I will also throw in the caveat that many people seem to be used to ignoring Chen. You can't do that anymore now.

Sounds nice to be honest. As I said, the changes are not game breaking but it's a start, glad to hear he is at least somewhat threatening to others.