Have your politics changed much throughout your lifetime?

[Dread Pirate Phayde]

I've definitely shifted, at one point I was very left leaning, then I shifted more to the right as I got a bit older, now I'm more middle of the road closer to libertarian, I don't follow any party lines, and look at each issue individually instead of a typical left or right party stance on something.

[Gardrenn]

Not really I learned pretty early on that voting for social issues is stupid. I'm a libertarian, I want people to deal with their own social issues, and keep taxes low. You will never change peoples minds on social issues, it just takes time. Large central governments for countries with large populations is also a generally bad idea. Take the US for example, there are far too many people in this country now for one government to keep up with. Add in enormous changes across the country in everything from religion, race, wealth, age, ect. and one large central government just doesn't work. Best thing you can do is keep as much local and state level as possible and let the central government focus on infrastructure and military/police like it was meant to. Socialist large governments might work in smaller EU countries, but many forget that the US is as large as the majority of all western Europe.

[RickJamesLich]

When your only job prospects are minimum wage jobs because you have no skills and a high school diploma, would you rather do that, or make 20x the money peddling some herbs to middle class white people?

Personally I'd prefer the minimum wage job and hopefully down the road try to get a better one. At this point though,as you implied, some people think selling drugs is a "good career choice". This train of thought (along with similar issues) is what's really damaging black communities.

[buck008]

Personally I'd prefer the minimum wage job and hopefully down the road try to get a better one. At this point though,as you implied, some people think selling drugs is a "good career choice". This train of thought (along with similar issues) is what's really damaging black communities.

Except its not black communities. Go check some stats. Any poverty stricken community has similar levels of crime, drug use, etc regardless of ethnic makeup. There are some extremely poor communities in, for example, West Virginia, that are 80% white and ravaged by meth and poor education.

[RickJamesLich]

I'm so glad that our poor have it better than the middle class in Nicaragua.

The thing is, life isn't really that bad in America, even if you are working a minimum job. Yes you may have to work a second job to survive, but the tools are actually out there, unlike in many other countries across the planet. The thing limiting people's success is themselves.

In the same time period, the stats for white families have gone from 3% to 30%. I guess white 'culture' is just as bankrupt, but blacks had a head start on the poverty train.

Glad to see that essentially, you don't disagree with me.

I think it goes to show that you don't understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Besides the actual statistics, I've seen it with my own eyes. People that get free stuff from the government are often less inclined to try to excel, rather it's easier just to depend on the government. Not in all cases, but this is definitely happening.

I believe some people can work hard and enjoy success. And the rest will fail, and without proper support, fall into the loop of poverty.

This is the self defeating attitude that is wrong with the liberals. And success is a pretty broad word I realize, but I'm not referring to owning a mansion when I say that black people have opportunities for a better living, but if they fall into the traps of developing a criminal background, having a kid early, etc., then of course it's going to greatly impede things. The answer, don't do any of that stuff. That should be the major focus, not expecting the government to "fix it. Strictly my opinion.

It's almost like you think there are a significant number of full-time jobs out there to be had, even though we have like 20,000,000 people unemployed and another 40,000,000 underemployed. Even college graduates are getting stuck living at home because those magic jobs just aren't there.

11,000,000 illegal immigrants are in the country according to the stats I've read. Many of these people have jobs, why do they deserve employment over citizens of the country? That may be a good place to start. And yes, there are problems with our system no doubt, such as college's charging an arm and a leg in tuition for degree's in fields where there is no work, so it's not just immigrants of course, but this is one of many solutions I think the country does need.

So, why don't we 'throw money at the problem' by paying everyone that needs a job to do something? Boom. There goes most of the poverty and all of the unemployment.

Umm... because employment is a lot more complicated then that. It really is upon the person to find a job, do you really want to live in a world where the government decides your employment? Also, if everyone was employed, there would likely still be poverty as some jobs pay far better then others, of course.

Why shouldn't THE COMMUNITY be focused on that? Why is it, when it comes time to deal with the problems, it's the 'black community', rather than "my community"?

This may come as a surprise to you, but in many communities if a person is a drug dealer, beats their wife/kid, or does any number of bad things, people will call the cops on that person, ostracize them, etc. Why? Because they are damaging the place where the rest of the community lives. I feel that this element is missing in many black communities and the "do nothing" approach is clearly not working. Also, if you think people shouldn't care about what happens in their community, they shouldn't be upset over something like "white flight" where people and businesses leave these communities once they become too infested with drugs and crime.

We need real leadership. We also need cops that respect our civil rights- it's no coincidence that the same communities where police trust is brutally low also have Justice Department findings that cops in those areas have routinely abused civil rights and brutalized people they assumed were powerless. I guess, if it makes you feel like a man to 'call out crappy parents', then go for it. I'm just asking- where did you expect them to learn to be good parents?

I'm all for getting rid of dirty cops, but I do think it's a silly notion to expect cops to take a very mild approach to dealing with criminals in some of the worst cities in our nation. For example if a drug dealer get busted by a cop, but the cop decides to let him off with a warning... is that really going to deter the person from committing more crimes? I don't think the police should be absolved of wrong doing, but on the flip side, they are only half of the problem - the community they work in is the other half. I expect them to learn how to be good parents by themselves. Or better yet, maybe black culture can start focusing on an issue like this... you know, the community helping itself.

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Except its not black communities. Go check some stats. Any poverty stricken community has similar levels of crime, drug use, etc regardless of ethnic makeup. There are some extremely poor communities in, for example, West Virginia, that are 80% white and ravaged by meth and poor education.

I 100% agree that there are white communities where this happens as well. Unfortunately the problem is much worse in black communities, and drug usage isn't related as much to poverty usage as you may think. Even the middle class and rich use them. This goes for other crimes too. That being said there's a pretty big difference between a crappy city in West Virginia as compared to Detroit.

[Thelxi]

Nope .

[buck008]

I 100% agree that there are white communities where this happens as well. Unfortunately the problem is much worse in black communities, and drug usage isn't related as much to poverty usage as you may think. Even the middle class and rich use them. This goes for other crimes too. That being said there's a pretty big difference between a crappy city in West Virginia as compared to Detroit.

It's not that there are white cities where this happens as well. It's that the rates are almost exactly the same regardless of ethnic makeup of the area. It's not a "bigger" problem in black areas.

[Archon14]

Only change for me was that I stopped caring for politics. I used to care about it when I was younger, talked about it wanting to find out more, to see what politicians are "better" and what would be a "right call" when it comes to voting, at least.
Then I realized that won't help me in life, and started pushing education instead.

(Also a weird subject for my first forum message, if I may say so.)

[bergmann620]

The thing limiting people's success is themselves.

...And the lack of jobs. But hey, we'll just pretend that they exist so that your narrative doesn't go completely in the crapper, right?

if they fall into the traps of developing a criminal background, having a kid early, etc., then of course it's going to greatly impede things. The answer, don't do any of that stuff. That should be the major focus, not expecting the government to "fix it.

So, how do you convince kids that have little education and parenting to 'don't do any of that stuff'?

That's what you keep glossing over: For your fantasy to be attainable, you're expecting generations of people that are growing up without guidance to suddenly one day wake up and fly right. It's a goddamn fairy tale.

11,000,000 illegal immigrants are in the country according to the stats I've read.

If I accept your stats at face value, and you accept mine, that still leaves us with 9,000,000 unemployed, and doesn't touch the number of underemployed. How do you propose they just 'buck up'? You do know that in most places, you have to be employed to qualify for food stamps, right? Rather than break the law to steal or sell drugs, would you prefer they just lay down in an orderly fashion and die?

It really is upon the person to find a job,

They are. It's called 'robbery' and 'selling drugs'. It's what happens when you have vast numbers of unemployed.

do you really want to live in a world where the government decides your employment?

When the alternative is not having a job, yes, yes I do.

Also, if everyone was employed, there would likely still be poverty as some jobs pay far better then others, of course.

There will always be people on the bottom. The goal is to make sure their heads are at least above water. Also, when you have full employment, wages tend to go up, not down. Look at Baaken.

I feel that this element is missing in many black communities and the "do nothing" approach is clearly not working.

I seriously doubt I would call the cops in a lot of black communities, seeing as how often the cops see 'black' and automatically think 'criminal'. That's on the cops as much as it is the people.

I'm all for getting rid of dirty cops, but I do think it's a silly notion to expect cops to take a very mild approach to dealing with criminals in some of the worst cities in our nation.

You're not a criminal until you're convicted. Even if you are, you still have civil rights.

I expect them to learn how to be good parents by themselves.

That's apparent. Any time you're presented with a case of, "This is a problem that's not being addressed..." Your answer is basically, "MAGIC! They will learn by MAGIC! The reason they don't know how to be good parents is FOODSTAMPS!"

You should think about how incoherent you sound:

The problem is largely that kids are going uneducated, unparented, and generally uncared for.

Your solution is that once they turn 18, they all magically learn how to adult and break the cycle.

If it worked like that, why would parents matter at all? Why households with 2 parents so consistently outperform single-parent households?

I 100% agree that there are white communities where this happens as well. Unfortunately the problem is much worse in black communities, and drug usage isn't related as much to poverty usage as you may think. Even the middle class and rich use them. This goes for other crimes too. That being said there's a pretty big difference between a crappy city in West Virginia as compared to Detroit.

The only difference is the population density.

[Drekker17]

I think I've always been the same, middle of the road libertarianish political views, though I'm only 25 so it's not like I've had a lot of life experiences to change it much. The few differences is I'm more negative about it, I don't expect a lot of change no matter who is president. I also paid attention more in the past, I researched all the candidates and watched most of the debates for Obama vs McCain, it was my first presidential election I could vote in so guess I was excited. Some in 2012. Today, however, I couldn't tell you anything about any candidate except Trump, only because he's everywhere.