Have your politics changed much throughout your lifetime?

[HotDude]

I used to be a hard-core liberal in college. I remember I lost sleep at night thinking Bush was going to beat john kerry. It made me so mad.

Fast forward to when I started working I got a heavy dose of reality. Making 4 grand on a paycheck and only taking home a little over 2 made start to think.

For me what really did it was lots of Obamas racial biases against whites. Be it programs that only targeted minorities to his contempt for certain aspect of history because they weren't "diverse" enough. Also the fact I firmly believe Obama is one of the main reasons ISIS has been allowed to spread. His reluctance to leave troops and really commit to destroying ISIS has angered me.

The last thing that really cemented my new found conservatism has been the whole so-called "police-brutality" sideshow and the blacklivesmatter movement that chooses to ignore forensic facts and manipulate data and opinions to push an agenda that dangerous.

Also the complete insanity of Europe allowing their culture to be invaded by Muslim invaders claiming to be refugees.

[eternityshard]

I don't think any debate will really shift someone's political outlook. That's mainly due to Confirmation Bias. Anyone watching a debate probably already has a candidate and will tend to focus on the positive things their candidate says and not anything that opposes it.

To your main question, I don't think my political philosophy has changed over the years so much as I've grown to understand it more. I've read biographies and autobiographies of presidents and other famous politicians, books on our political and economic system by historical figures, as well as political fiction such as Atlas Shrugged. Every time I read something of those, I come away not so much changed as revealed. I don't always walk away from it now thinking, "Yes, THAT is how it should be". Many times its the opposite. There is power in perspective, and you cannot have perspective without seeing and learning from all the sides. So each piece of knowledge helped me see more clearly the shape of my own political views.

Much like you, I'm just fed up with the options we have. I labeled myself republican in my younger days because I worried more about fiscal issues than social ones. "Fiscally conservative, but socially liberal". Of the three pillars we have right now, I'd identify with Libertarian the most. The big problem with Libertarianism is what you identified: it boils down to "leave me alone" and anyone who truly espouses that doesn't lend himself to wanting to get into the spotlight and be a politician, which is why I think that party has such a hard time; the candidates just aren't usually very personable and engaging. The only way that political bent could really come into power would be through some sort of revolution like Ayn Rand described in Atlas Shrugged, though I haven't a clue how that would play out in today's society.

[Rukh]

I used to be a hard-core liberal in college. I remember I lost sleep at night thinking Bush was going to beat john kerry. It made me so mad.

Fast forward to when I started working I got a heavy dose of reality. Making 4 grand on a paycheck and only taking home a little over 2 made start to think.

For me what really did it was lots of Obamas racial biases against whites. Be it programs that only targeted minorities to his contempt for certain aspect of history because they weren't "diverse" enough. Also the fact I firmly believe Obama is one of the main reasons ISIS has been allowed to spread. His reluctance to leave troops and really commit to destroying ISIS has angered me.

The last thing that really cemented my new found conservatism has been the whole so-called "police-brutality" sideshow and the blacklivesmatter movement that chooses to ignore forensic facts and manipulate data and opinions to push an agenda that dangerous.

Also the complete insanity of Europe allowing their culture to be invaded by Muslim invaders claiming to be refugees.

It sounded like you started getting your information from hard right-wing propaganda instead of reality is what happened.

[HotDude]

It sounded like you started getting your information from hard right-wing propaganda instead of reality is what happened.

Not really I just saw the left-wing propaganda that I had been fed my whole life was nonsense.

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I don't think any debate will really shift someone's political outlook. That's mainly due to Confirmation Bias. Anyone watching a debate probably already has a candidate and will tend to focus on the positive things their candidate says and not anything that opposes it.

To your main question, I don't think my political philosophy has changed over the years so much as I've grown to understand it more. I've read biographies and autobiographies of presidents and other famous politicians, books on our political and economic system by historical figures, as well as political fiction such as Atlas Shrugged. Every time I read something of those, I come away not so much changed as revealed. I don't always walk away from it now thinking, "Yes, THAT is how it should be". Many times its the opposite. There is power in perspective, and you cannot have perspective without seeing and learning from all the sides. So each piece of knowledge helped me see more clearly the shape of my own political views.

Much like you, I'm just fed up with the options we have. I labeled myself republican in my younger days because I worried more about fiscal issues than social ones. "Fiscally conservative, but socially liberal". Of the three pillars we have right now, I'd identify with Libertarian the most. The big problem with Libertarianism is what you identified: it boils down to "leave me alone" and anyone who truly espouses that doesn't lend himself to wanting to get into the spotlight and be a politician, which is why I think that party has such a hard time; the candidates just aren't usually very personable and engaging. The only way that political bent could really come into power would be through some sort of revolution like Ayn Rand described in Atlas Shrugged, though I haven't a clue how that would play out in today's society.

I used to be more liberatiran but I found that liberaitan ideals arn'te really thsat ssedidn in reality. You need to have restictions to freedom to have a function society, total freedom is jsut anarchy.

[Themius]

It sounded like you started getting your information from hard right-wing propaganda instead of reality is what happened.

I was reading his post and thinking, whoa that's a heavy dose of fox.

I mean come on "they took money out my check how dare they!" is so... silly.

[Rukh]

Not really I just saw the left-wing propaganda that I had been fed my whole life was nonsense.

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I used to be more liberatiran but I found that liberaitan ideals arn'te really thsat ssedidn in reality. You need to have restictions to freedom to have a function society, total freedom is jsut anarchy.

"Also the complete insanity of Europe allowing their culture to be invaded by Muslim invaders claiming to be refugees."

What I see is that all your beliefs are centered around fear.

[Lodreh]

My political views have evolved over the years... still one principle idea has held up through the years and a lot of problems could be solved if everyone did the same:

People should do whatever makes them happy and if it doesn't directly impact you... you should let them be.

Examples
Gay Marriage: Not gay so more power to 'em.
Abortion: Not a pregnant woman... her choice.
Health Care: I pay for private health insurance... others should do the same.
Welfare: I donate to charity... shouldn't need a government mandated one... the best Social Program is a Job.
Disability: I pay for private disability insurance... others should do the same and Worker's Comp is a thing.
Retirement: I fund an IRA account while I'm working... others should do the same and not rely on Social Security.


Point is... I don't ask anymore from someone than I expect of myself. I don't feel like I should have to support others for their lack for preparation or initiative... if I choose to there is always charity.

[Kraenen]

I was a strong conservative (might resemble more right-libertarian) when I was a kid - before I learned what conservative meant to society (you can't call yourself that without being demonized today) and what its real, empirical effects on the world were. Might've been through socialization but I shifted more and more left/liberal over the teen years. Now - not really sure. There's a whole lot more nuance and I rarely think along a strict ideological line. I'm trying more and more to think pragmatically.

[Lady Dragonheart]

No, not much at all.

However, over time I have learned how to make money from conflicting interests.

[Themius]

My political views have evolved over the years... still one principle idea has held up through the years and a lot of problems could be solved if everyone did the same:

People should do whatever makes them happy and if it doesn't directly impact you... you should let them be.

Examples
Gay Marriage: Not gay so more power to 'em.
Abortion: Not a pregnant woman... her choice.
Health Care: I pay for private health insurance... others should do the same.
Welfare: I donate to charity... shouldn't need a government mandated one... the best Social Program is a Job.
Disability: I pay for private disability insurance... others should do the same and Worker's Comp is a thing.
Retirement: I fund an IRA account while I'm working... others should do the same and not rely on Social Security.


Point is... I don't ask anymore from someone than I expect of myself. I don't feel like I should have to support others for their lack for preparation or initiative... if I choose to there is always charity.

Um there will always be jobless people because we will never have jobs for all people who want to work.

[Lodreh]

Yes, my political views have changed drastically. When I was 4 or 5 I was convinced communism would be the answer. It was before I even heard of communism, I just realized later on in life that my idea for running the world when I was 4 or 5 was communism. Obviously growing up and being well educated is going to change my views on things.

Growing up on Star Trek has this effect.

[Planeshaper]

The full journey can be found here: http://bergmannity.com/political-reality/

Welcome to the left.

As in, the actual left. The "New Deal" kind of left. The "Why would you file for unemployment when you could simply walk in and be assigned a job?" kind of left (yes, I read your entire blog post).

This kind of economy is what propelled the US post-Depression, through WW2, and made us successful during the Cold War.

However, this statement: "The vast majority of all other social spending / welfare programs would cease to be," is not an accurate conclusion. The majority of social spending in the US is on Pensions, Health, and Education -- the three would be primarily unaffected by a new Works Progress Administration.

Your premise: "You can either pay people to work, pay them to not work, or pay to incarcerate them. There simply is no other path." This is pretty accurate. But missing an option: "You can just kill them." It's not a good option; in fact, it's a terrible option. But it's an option that exists that many defend.

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Also, most modern-day "liberals" in the US (and I use that term loosely) are not leftists, but people who want to hide behind the banner of leftism to promote their own forms of social tyranny, so it is not terribly surprising that you don't really want to call yourself a liberal.

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Anyway, "I agree with a lot of what socialists say when it comes to capital and the economy," + "I agree with a lot of what libertarians say when it comes to social behavior and freedoms," + "I value hard work and success like a lot of conservatives say they do." That's just a summation of being leftist.

[Calzaeth]

My core values haven't changed, but I've gone from naïve communist-romanticizing teenager to a pretty liberal socialdemocrat. Not liberal as in Liberal U.S., but liberal as in, "I support most bans we have, but let's not go crazy, eh?".

[Lodreh]

...people who want to work.

That's the key right there. I know several people on Welfare that don't look for work because it would interfere with their "free money".

[Deleted]

Used to be far right but Im now a moderate, balance is the key. I lean slightly to the right though because the left in Sweden is quite obnoxious these days.

[MatadorMedia]

I've always been liberal and still am.

There have been slight changes though, like I don't support the $15 minimum wage hike because I worked my ass off to get a college degree while making $6-$7 an hour just to move up to $15. Welfare is there for a reason; use it if you need it, and I've had it in the past (while working). Don't expect private companies to support your whole family with one crappy job.

[Planeshaper]

I don't ask anymore from someone than I expect of myself.

This is an ignorant approach where you suggest that your method is the particular method that should be expected of everyone. I'm sure you ask yourself, "If I can do it, why can't everyone else?"

I notice you didn't add "Crime Prevention" to your list. Do you pay for private security for your residence and you and your family's bodies everywhere you go? I suspect you're in favor of a socialized police force.

What about the person that does take the initiative or take preparation for privately protecting themselves from crime and its damages? Should they be able to opt out of paying their portion of taxes that would go to a socialized police force? Can they say to themselves, "If I can do this, why can't everyone else?"

[Reeve]

My politics have changed mostly because the side I started out with had too many groups that I just could not associate with in good conscience. If you have to filter reality through your wallet (or the impact addressing reality you think will have on your wallet), then I no respect for you and want nothing to do with you. That effectively rules out a large portion of American conservatives.

I was a bit shocked last night when Marco Rubio was saying (paraphrasing), "Anthropogenic Climate Change is real and is going to have a massive impact on my home state of Florida, but doing anything about it will cost money, so fuck that. Let's have some fun while we can. Burn this sonofabitch down!!!"

[HotDude]

Libertarians are not into anarchy. They like laws, just laws that restrict you(and the government) from affecting anyone but yourself.

Law (should only) punish crime... not freedom.

In other words, if you do drugs, great.... go right ahead, if you go driving while high(and hit someone), then there is a problem, and we have law to deal with it.

well thats the problem there is something called human nature. There needs ot be balance. There isn't anything positive about leaglizisng drugs. People talk about tax revneneu and ect but in reality it's better to have drugs outlawed than legal.

[Austilias]

Yep. As a teenager I was very much an avid, hyper-liberal socialist; die-hard utopian, utterly naive, and no doubt right at home on this very website. A huge fan of Christopher Hitchens/Sam Harris and the like, to the point where I had all the famous speeches/debates/etc on my Ipod and all sorts. In a very real sense, I was a utopian; and probably akin to the 'usual suspects' of MMO-Champion who are invariably to be found in threads of a political nature.

Nowadays, I'd call myself a bit of a traditionalist; more of a 'small c' conservative, which whilst generally reasonable has you lumped in with Neo-Nazis and all sorts on this aforementioned website. What brought it about, I'm not entirely sure; no real 'eureka' moment, just a gradual change as the years went on. As such, I'm usually at odds with most people here; though I at least have a pretty good insight into why they think the things they do, and how. Actually debating those differences is rarely worthwhile, however.