Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    With the 4 pc set bonus giving 15% damage increase while AR is going on, would it be worthwhile to use KS while AR is running?
    Or should we just KS first before popping AR as usual?

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by T18Z View Post
    I'd like to think there are a few scenarios where using a 4cp evis would be beneificial.

    - If you know you won't be able to reach 5cp before the adds die/dissapear because of energy or mechanical constraints (running away with debuffs yada yada) it may be worth using it, as the additional damage from blade flurry may outweigh the energy loss/damage reduction from a 4cp vs 5cp. The same might hold true during the final stages of the legendary ring or deep insight.

    - In a situation where killing spree is soon to be up (next finishing move activiates it) but the adds are soon dead, I'd probably use a 4cp evis as long as I'm sure it'd allow me to use my killing spree fully before the adds died.

    - Finally I'd use a 4cp evis if it meant gaining an extra use of MFD that I otherwise would've missed because I was at 4cp, waiting for the energy for the 5th cp to use evis, and in that time two adds died closely apart (within a second or two) making my MFD reset, but me not wanting to apply it to the secondary target because I'm already at 4-5cp (if that makes sense).

    The above is all speculation anyway. No math or proof, so take it for whatever it's worth.
    All of these sound reasonable. Basically you need a good reason to do so as you pay double as combat for not being at 5CP compared to the other specs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8jack View Post
    With the 4 pc set bonus giving 15% damage increase while AR is going on, would it be worthwhile to use KS while AR is running?
    Or should we just KS first before popping AR as usual?
    I believe the APL uses Killing Spree regardless of anything, so also during AR but don't aim for it. Get to very low energy before and preferably while cleaving for -20% energy regen.

    I believe the APL is not optimized for that completely though, my gut feeling is that if you would hold on to KS for a long time that is a bad idea, therefore if you just used AR go also for KS, but if AR lasts only 3s or less try to spend energy. This is speculation though and might be proven wrong.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by RylixTV View Post
    Basically you need a good reason to do so as you pay double as combat for not being at 5CP compared to the other specs.
    Maybe it should be plain added to the guide then that as a general rule, Eviscerate should always be used at 5cp. Maybe it's too obvious now, but I for one haven't played without Anticipation for so long, that after switching to MfD I started to misremember things that were probably related to older Assassination playstyle ("it's ok to use a 4cp finisher to avoid combo points overflow"); for a few hours there I was under the impression you should do 4cp Eviscerates too if you're at 4 CP and there's no reason to do RvS.

    Just a thought. Thanks for the guide and for the clarification!

  4. #44
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    3,527
    Quote Originally Posted by Recuiem View Post
    Of course the person on the internet that hasn't set foot in Mythic knows everything about mastering his class
    That is very ignorant of you man... Yes I haven't raided much mythic in WoD, but I raided endgame Vanilla-MoP as Rogue, so I know this class quite well. And you can be good in both theory and practice. And from all information I gathered, as well as personal experiments, Mark of Death is a much less superior choice then Anticipation.

    Basically summarized like this:

    Mark of Death grants you 5 CP every minute BUT

    Anticipation allows you to stack up 5 CP extra for every Red Bandits Guile and for every Green and Yellow Guile in between. Without Anticipation, you are forced to use Eviscerate at lesser damage bonuses, to not waste built up Combo points.

    From what I tested, in 1 minute, I got 1 Eviscerate moved from no guile into green, 1 moved from green-yellow, 1 moved from yellow to red, another moved from non to green and 1 move from green to yellow.

    That is 2x Green (10%), 2x Yellow (20%) and 1x Red (50%) Bonus Damage with Anticipation, in 1 minute, that you wouldn't have gotten with Mark.

    So do tell me, how could you possibly rank Mark over Anticipation?
    • Diablo Immortal is the most misunderstood and underrated game of all time!
    • Blizzard, please, give us some end-game focused Classic servers, where you start at max level!
    • Serious Completionist: 100% OW Achievements, 100% D3 Achievements, 90% Immortal Achievements, 99% ATT Classic, ~90% ATT Retail

  5. #45
    Deleted
    What's ignorant is you dropping such a bold claim with no argumentation whatsoever on a subject that has been discussed over and over and over again, including in this thread.

    Your input in this guide thread was extremely disrespectful to rogues like me that have discussed MfD vs Anticipation numerous times and to Rylix in particular after the effort he has put in making this guide for you and politely answering everyone's questions all the time. My response to you was absolutely reasonable and I am not sorry about it, I will NOT have this discussion again, scroll through the forum, do your research, believe what you want but do NOT drop such ignorant groundless claims.

  6. #46
    Assuming no adds, whens the best time to use marked for death? During red bandits guile?
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Assuming no adds, whens the best time to use marked for death? During red bandits guile?
    SimC uses it on CD, I suppose you can delay a little bit for red, ~5s maybe, IF you don't lose a usage in total because of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    That is very ignorant of you man... Yes I haven't raided much mythic in WoD, but I raided endgame Vanilla-MoP as Rogue, so I know this class quite well. And you can be good in both theory and practice. And from all information I gathered, as well as personal experiments, Mark of Death is a much less superior choice then Anticipation.

    Basically summarized like this:

    Mark of Death grants you 5 CP every minute BUT

    Anticipation allows you to stack up 5 CP extra for every Red Bandits Guile and for every Green and Yellow Guile in between. Without Anticipation, you are forced to use Eviscerate at lesser damage bonuses, to not waste built up Combo points.

    From what I tested, in 1 minute, I got 1 Eviscerate moved from no guile into green, 1 moved from green-yellow, 1 moved from yellow to red, another moved from non to green and 1 move from green to yellow.

    That is 2x Green (10%), 2x Yellow (20%) and 1x Red (50%) Bonus Damage with Anticipation, in 1 minute, that you wouldn't have gotten with Mark.

    So do tell me, how could you possibly rank Mark over Anticipation?
    That's not how math works. If you go from 1.1 to 1.2 that is not +20%.

    So from 1 to 1.10 it is +10%
    from 1.1 to 1.2 it is +9.1%
    from 1.2 to 1.5 it is +25%

    Now if you multiply the gains, 1.1 * 1.091 * 1.25, you get 1.5 in total, which is what other theorycrafters tell you aswell.
    In total, per cylce, you move 1 Evi from nothing to red insight, which is far less than what you claimed.

    So after 2 Cycles you do the damage of 3 Eviscerates for 2 Evi casts, you gain the damage of 1 free eviscerate after 2 full cylces, which are way longer than one minute.
    With mfd you get that free damage aswell every 1 minute. And what is more important, you also get 10s CD reduction, which is while currently not on any gear, by far combat's best stat.

    Also why do you choose to ignore any links and reasoning I provided in the earlier post?

  8. #48
    In the video, I notice you controlling bandits guile. How often is it worth it to control it like that? Should I control it only during adds?

    Also, why venom rush? Does it work since our poisons are instant?
    Last edited by Zantos; 2015-10-10 at 06:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    In the video, I notice you controlling bandits guile. How often is it worth it to control it like that? Should I control it only during adds?

    Also, why venom rush? Does it work since our poisons are instant?
    Most of the time it is worth it, on Xhul there is almost always adds up, so there is doesn't matter.

    VR works as combat yes.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RylixTV View Post
    Most of the time it is worth it, on Xhul there is almost always adds up, so there is doesn't matter.

    VR works as combat yes.
    On single target, what is the best way as far as controlling it goes?
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  11. #51
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    In the Shadows
    Posts
    7,364
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    On single target, what is the best way as far as controlling it goes?
    Afaik you don't. Just try to make sure you don't have to refresh SnD during a Deep Insight.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    On single target, what is the best way as far as controlling it goes?
    You don't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    Just try to make sure you don't have to refresh SnD during a Deep Insight.
    That's no longer in the APL, it just uses SnD with whatever amount it has once it's <2s. I think in that case it might be better to just do a 5CP SnD then. Doing it with 1 CP feels wrong if you can avoid it.

  13. #53
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    In the Shadows
    Posts
    7,364
    Quote Originally Posted by RylixTV View Post
    You don't.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's no longer in the APL, it just uses SnD with whatever amount it has once it's <2s. I think in that case it might be better to just do a 5CP SnD then. Doing it with 1 CP feels wrong if you can avoid it.
    I try to use delays in my CP builders and stuff to try and control it a bit. As long as you never cap out energy and you do it at the right times that shouldn't cost you any damage anyway. But yeah, if you gotta refresh, you gotta refresh. Letting it fall off is never an option.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    I try to use delays in my CP builders and stuff to try and control it a bit. As long as you never cap out energy and you do it at the right times that shouldn't cost you any damage anyway. But yeah, if you gotta refresh, you gotta refresh. Letting it fall off is never an option.
    Prolonging bandit's guile states even without energy capping can be a dps loss, as you prolong let's say yellow, you shorten the overall amount of time spent in red. A big chunk of our dps comes from passive sources, so they don't take kindly on that.
    That's very small dimensions we are talking now, but so is this SnD optimization.

  15. #55
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    In the Shadows
    Posts
    7,364
    Quote Originally Posted by RylixTV View Post
    Prolonging bandit's guile states even without energy capping can be a dps loss, as you prolong let's say yellow, you shorten the overall amount of time spent in red. A big chunk of our dps comes from passive sources, so they don't take kindly on that.
    That's very small dimensions we are talking now, but so is this SnD optimization.
    Makes sense, hadn't really thought about that to be honest

  16. #56
    I have been checking out that simming site you suggested. How accurate are its stat weights and its predicted dps amounts when it comes to a raid environment?
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    I have been checking out that simming site you suggested. How accurate are its stat weights and its predicted dps amounts when it comes to a raid environment?
    If you are talking about shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com you should not be using that as a DPS guide. Shadowcraft is an awesome tool to check gear upgrades but for simulating DPS you should be using simulationcraft.
    I may be wrong about stat weights but I think they are both pretty accurate.
    Pugs are like Master Card---- Priceless.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by VeriDF View Post
    By the way can someone explain a little bit the dagger-cleaving thing? I don't really get it, I don't know which weapon should be a dagger and which not.
    Here's initial findings: http://ravenholdt.net/index.php/foru....php?f=6&t=116

  19. #59
    Deleted
    update: added links to other guides in the OP, also assa guide out now

  20. #60
    So, is the new heirloom trinket any good compared to the other hfc trinkets?
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •