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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Molagzhul View Post
    why worry about something in the future when you have no control over it?
    just enjoy the present.
    if you think you are going to miss something that may be gone soon, then have fun with it everyday until such a time comes.

    Metamorphosis isnt going to be gone, its just going to be available exclusively to another class which will make better, more extensive use of it.
    Take note that they said warlocks will not have meta, but that doesnt mean we wont have the functionality of it, which is increase in damage and new or morphed abilities. There are many ways they can keep that in effect.
    Did they say specifically that we will lose Meta? I won't be surprised if the stance mechanic changes, in fact I'd be surprised if it stays, but the transformation aspect could still be baked into Dark Soul as far as I know.

  2. #42
    The Lightbringer
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    For me, it is more than certain, since with the Demon Hunter announces we have so far, they seem to get a Metamorphosis spell. Doubt they'd leave it for Demo locks. At the least minimum, they will rename it, if kept.

  3. #43
    Only thing i like about Demonology Warlock is the whole spawning Fell Imps to help you attack stuff, makes me feel in control of a smaller army of demons. Thats how i want it to be, i hate how people is trying to say its gonna be just a reskinned BM Warlock, but i still think it would be awesome if it was more about summoning demons and stealing temporary powers from them or the Twisting Nether, instead of trying to be wannabe Demon Hunters. Warlocks didnt have it before, it was something that came after along time, i'm not gonna miss it when its gone.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazdren View Post
    Only thing i like about Demonology Warlock is the whole spawning Fell Imps to help you attack stuff, makes me feel in control of a smaller army of demons. Thats how i want it to be, i hate how people is trying to say its gonna be just a reskinned BM Warlock, but i still think it would be awesome if it was more about summoning demons and stealing temporary powers from them or the Twisting Nether, instead of trying to be wannabe Demon Hunters. Warlocks didnt have it before, it was something that came after along time, i'm not gonna miss it when its gone.
    To be fair, we've had Meta longer than we haven't had it. It came with Wrath which was released in 2008, 4 years after WoW's initial launch. It's now 2015. We've had Meta almost twice as long as the amount of time we haven't had it.

  5. #45
    And unless I am totally misreading the statements from Blizz that "Meta is for Demon Hunters, not Warlocks" and "Demo is about controlling demons, not becoming one" (my paraphrasing) it seems certain we are losing Metamorphosis. I don't see the (amazing and fun) green fire quest and Kanrethrad's fate interfering in any way with the plans. It's clear the plans have been in the works for awhile and the nerfing into oblivion of Demo was a calculated move to detach us from the spec and the abilities they were planning to cut. I guess that is kinder than just yanking the rug out from under us at the last second.

    I do hope we are more than Demon-flavored Beastmasters. Praying for a Beta key to help figure it all out before live.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptolemay View Post
    just summoning pets and more pets sounds like boring gameplay...i hope they dont ***** it up =/
    Depends, it could be pretty cool to send lots of different demons swarming at a mob and using spells to buff them, Blizz seem to be avoiding the big pitfall of focusing on pets (Making it an evil magical BM-hunter, basically), it might turn out great, it will be a different sort of spec style than pretty much all other caster specs, at least.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Depends, it could be pretty cool to send lots of different demons swarming at a mob and using spells to buff them, Blizz seem to be avoiding the big pitfall of focusing on pets (Making it an evil magical BM-hunter, basically), it might turn out great, it will be a different sort of spec style than pretty much all other caster specs, at least.
    Sending swarms of pets at enemies sounds awesome, until the pet/guardian AI breaks again and half of them just stand there doing nothing.

  8. #48
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckz0rs View Post
    Sending swarms of pets at enemies sounds awesome, until the pet/guardian AI breaks again and half of them just stand there doing nothing.
    Just "yay all my pets in the melee pile that I can't see are doing stuff while I cast Shadow Bolts and buffs". On paper it looks like an alright idea, but the actual transfer to the game world... Sceptical. Very sceptical.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilUK View Post
    So I've been doing some hard thinking about how the discussed changes to demonology is giving me some anxiety issues. No offence to the Demon Hunters but taking away Metamorphosis from us sucks. Its within the lore that various NPC Warlocks infuse themselves with so much fel energy that they become part demon.

    Now I know that not everyone enjoyed the WoD Demonology spec but for me I fell back in love with the class during MoP after having shelved it long time ago and I can't help but feel that if the new Demonology spec is anything like how Affliction plays now I'm pretty sure I'll just roll mage and call it a day. I know nothing is set in stone but to honest I really enjoyed the high skill cap Demonology had compared to other specs in the game.

    Does anyone else feel like this?
    I am going to tell you the same things that I had to tell the other people who have tried to pull the fire alarm just because you are misinformed.

    The warlocks that have infused themselves with fel energy to the point of a metamorphosis have mostly become insane and are incredibly dangerous. (spoiler) We fight one of them atop of black temple and drive them back (spoiler). These warlocks are in no way what the Black harvest (your class order, who knew, huh!) is wanting.

    The approach of the warlock is to carefully study demons, their abilities and learn how to summon them to form a pact with them, one of co-existence and a paid price. Remember sacrificing the hearts of two mourning widows (men) to summon a Succubus? Yes, that kind of thing.

    Demonology and mostly just the Metamorphosis spell were introduced as an experiment because the developer then did not know if they would introduce Demon Hunters any time soon and it was fun at the time, sure.

    However, from a lore perspective, this does not work and I am very glad that they are orienting themselves rather with the lore than what the loud masses want.

    TL;DR:

    You do not know yet what the new demonology is like. it has always been about having a pact with demons, not becoming one, that is Demon Hunter territory and you may want to look in to playing a Demon Hunter. There will be blogs about EVERY class and its new talents and talent changes coming soon, so before screaming and crying and whining and god knows how many verbs I could use for this, please show that you are able to wait to read on this and possibly try this out in beta (if you are lucky).
    Last edited by Lillyth; 2015-11-08 at 03:42 PM.

  10. #50
    Tbh I always felt like demonology should be about having armies of demons and buffing them up. That's why I rolled warlock in the first place and why I let go of it after WotLK.

  11. #51
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyth View Post
    I am going to tell you the same things that I had to tell the other people who have tried to pull the fire alarm just because you are misinformed.

    The warlocks that have infused themselves with fel energy to the point of a metamorphosis have mostly become insane and are incredibly dangerous. (spoiler) We fight one of them atop of black temple and drive them back (spoiler). These warlocks are in no way what the Black harvest (your class order, who knew, huh!) is wanting.

    The approach of the warlock is to carefully study demons, their abilities and learn how to summon them to form a pact with them, one of co-existence and a paid price. Remember sacrificing the hearts of two mourning widows (men) to summon a Succubus? Yes, that kind of thing.

    Demonology and mostly just the Metamorphosis spell were introduced as an experiment because the developer then did not know if they would introduce Demon Hunters any time soon and it was fun at the time, sure.

    However, from a lore perspective, this does not work and I am very glad that they are orienting themselves rather with the lore than what the loud masses want.

    TL;DR:

    You do not know yet what the new demonology is like. it has always been about having a pact with demons, not becoming one, that is Demon Hunter territory and you may want to look in to playing a Demon Hunter. There will be blogs about EVERY class and its new talents and talent changes coming soon, so before screaming and crying and whining and god knows how many adjectives I could use for this, please show that you are able to wait to read on this and possibly try this out in beta (if you are lucky).
    You know what. Fuck you. Telling people that have had something that they'd had longer than they hadn't that they can't have it anymore is bullshit. Stir it however the fuck you want with whatever the fuck lore excuse you want. It's a massive retcon. And it's just shit. If I want to be pissed about it, I'll be pissed about it. And I am. Because they're changing my character. How I play the game, entirely, right under me. You're not going to make me feel bad for being upset about that. People tend not to like too much change. I'll remind you that GC stated it as the number one reason for players leaving.

    Wait and see does not work for something so fundamentally different. It just doesn't. So wait till it's basically final to complain? By then it's too late.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    You know what. Fuck you. Telling people that have had something that they'd had longer than they hadn't that they can't have it anymore is bullshit. Stir it however the fuck you want with whatever the fuck lore excuse you want. It's a massive retcon. And it's just shit. If I want to be pissed about it, I'll be pissed about it. And I am. Because they're changing my character. How I play the game, entirely, right under me. You're not going to make me feel bad for being upset about that. People tend not to like too much change. I'll remind you that GC stated it as the number one reason for players leaving.

    Wait and see does not work for something so fundamentally different. It just doesn't. So wait till it's basically final to complain? By then it's too late.
    You know where the door is if you are not happy with the changes. There will be blogs and I highly recommend that you read them first and possibly try it in the closed beta.

    I understand that you are upset and I guess you can be. But there really is not anything that is going to change this. Yes, they are taking something away that may, to some, be iconic. But from a lore perspective, they are making Warlocks lore accurate again, which they have not been for many years now.

    If you come to a conclusion, vote with your wallet. I have not pre-purchased Legion yet either.

  13. #53
    Stood in the Fire SirMeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyth View Post
    I understand that you are upset and I guess you can be. But there really is not anything that is going to change this. Yes, they are taking something away that may, to some, be iconic. But from a lore perspective, they are making Warlocks lore accurate again, which they have not been for many years now.
    You do know that they literally wrote the lore for warlock meta during green fire quest, right? I wonder if they're going to outright retcon it or try to give it some in-game explanation. ("Demon hunters told you not to do it and because warlock are known for abiding rules they decided they're not gonna do it anymore.")

    "many years" is also an understatement; Demo has been revolving around Meta for 7 years, which is... over the half of the game's age. If Meta had been one expansion goof-off you would have a point, but after this time I'm not really buying it.

    I'm not nearly as aggressive as Jessicka is about this, but I am a bit bitter. I've had Meta as long as I've played a warlock, and to me it's part of my class/spec identity, something Blizzard said they want to promote this expansion :/

  14. #54
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyth View Post
    You know where the door is if you are not happy with the changes. There will be blogs and I highly recommend that you read them first and possibly try it in the closed beta.

    I understand that you are upset and I guess you can be. But there really is not anything that is going to change this. Yes, they are taking something away that may, to some, be iconic. But from a lore perspective, they are making Warlocks lore accurate again, which they have not been for many years now.

    If you come to a conclusion, vote with your wallet. I have not pre-purchased Legion yet either.
    Your assertion that the lore for the spec has basically 'just been wrong' for the entire lifespan of the game is absurd. And yes, the entire lifespan since Demonic Sacrifice was a Demonology talent in classic.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by SirMeo View Post
    You do know that they literally wrote the lore for warlock meta during green fire quest, right? I wonder if they're going to outright retcon it or try to give it some in-game explanation. ("Demon hunters told you not to do it and because warlock are known for abiding rules they decided they're not gonna do it anymore.")

    "many years" is also an understatement; Demo has been revolving around Meta for 7 years, which is... over the half of the game's age. If Meta had been one expansion goof-off you would have a point, but after this time I'm not really buying it.

    I'm not nearly as aggressive as Jessicka is about this, but I am a bit bitter. I've had Meta as long as I've played a warlock, and to me it's part of my class/spec identity, something Blizzard said they want to promote this expansion :/
    Just as cool as it is and it really is something that I personally thought was nice to see for warlocks, god knows I have seen people running around with just the wings out since forever until they took that away too.

    I am pretty sure the questline involving your Class Hall is going to explain why and how metamorphosis is not used anymore. The Black Harvest questline itself nudges at the whole principle of a line that must never be crossed, which is manifested in Kanrethad Ebonlockes demise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Your assertion that the lore for the spec has basically 'just been wrong' for the entire lifespan of the game is absurd. And yes, the entire lifespan since Demonic Sacrifice was a Demonology talent in classic.
    I am going to say how it is going to go down from what I would expect of Blizzard. The questline for warlocks (demonology in particular) is probably going to heavily involve the Black Harvest. There will probably be something happening (as hinted, Warlocks will come to the broken shore, feel like they are ultimately powerful and will be slapped right on to their butts) that defines how warlocks then carve their path through Legion, which as it seems for now (I cannot stress it enough, read the Blogs once they are out), will include shedding metamorphosis.

    I doubt there will be something such as Illidan telling warlocks "not to meddle in powers they do not understand" or something as cheesy as that.

  16. #56
    Stood in the Fire SirMeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyth View Post
    Just as cool as it is and it really is something that I personally thought was nice to see for warlocks, god knows I have seen people running around with just the wings out since forever until they took that away too.

    I am pretty sure the questline involving your Class Hall is going to explain why and how metamorphosis is not used anymore. The Black Harvest questline itself nudges at the whole principle of a line that must never be crossed, which is manifested in Kanrethad Ebonlockes demise.
    ... You do realize there is still glyph of metamorphosis for running around with wings as long as you have fury :>

    And as for in-game explanations... I'm not buying any of that, since I don't really buy warlocks as listening to warnings. I mean we didn't stop trying to summon big scary demons (and in fact are going to summon MORE big scary demons) after Wilfred "Trifling gnome" Fizzlebang (his arrogance was his undoing) so this is really "your opinion vs my opinion" and not 100%%% %$ lore

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by SirMeo View Post
    ... You do realize there is still glyph of metamorphosis for running around with wings as long as you have fury :>

    And as for in-game explanations... I'm not buying any of that, since I don't really buy warlocks as listening to warnings. I mean we didn't stop trying to summon big scary demons (and in fact are going to summon MORE big scary demons) after Wilfred "Trifling gnome" Fizzlebang (his arrogance was his undoing) so this is really "your opinion vs my opinion" and not 100%%% %$ lore
    To the first sentence, yes, I know. But there used to be one which let you permanently run around with it. One of my friends loved to use that one.

    And yes, this is entirely true. I can not foreshadow what Blizzard is going to do with the Black Harvest. But they will apparently be a big part in the warlock experience. So there may be something new that could get you excited on the same level as metamorphosis. We can only tell in the coming weeks and months.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyth View Post

    You do not know yet what the new demonology is like. it has always been about having a pact with demons, not becoming one, that is Demon Hunter territory and you may want to look in to playing a Demon Hunter. There will be blogs about EVERY class and its new talents and talent changes coming soon, so before screaming and crying and whining and god knows how many adjectives I could use for this, please show that you are able to wait to read on this and possibly try this out in beta (if you are lucky).
    You really felt the need to post it in red? For people to see what? Your wisdom? It is not ALWAYS. It was only at vanilla and TBC. Warlocks have had the metamorphosis spell for many years now. Can you show me any post of you, all these years (before the DH hype) saying that this is not right? Or you did spend your time in here posting whether you wear underwear in General talk? So, Blizzard was building on this and made warlocks more demon-like as patches and expansion passed and you say bullshit that locks were CAREFULLY practicing their magic and that the harvest council had nothing to do with it. Do you know what other things warlocks did according to the lore? Were draining life. They were also exchanging life to do their thing. Do you know what else lore say? Mages had to rest after doing their spells (aka mana) and now there is no need for it.

    So, let me tell some bullshit as well. The black harvest was too afraid of that power that it was processed by only a few, and wanted him to stop. Of course Blizzard did not know their lore (where were you to teach them) and almost all gear/CM transog had nothing to do with being a demon, right? Green fire has nothing to do with it, right? All these years being able to transform was nothing, right? They were wrong all these year and you , that as it seems you have little relevance to the game, come to the forum of the class you are obviously not intent to play, nor ever played seriously to educate the community! With fuckin red letters! Well, as Jessicka said, fuck you
    Last edited by Rayaleith; 2015-11-08 at 01:56 PM.
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    ...
    The only positive thing I can say to you, without doing the same as you do, is to tell you that you should wait for the blogs and real information before you jump the gun. Blizzard obviously did not go in-depth during Blizzcon, which is fine because spoiling the expansion before it is even out is the same as telling people if Jaina is a Dreadlord or not.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillyth View Post
    The only positive thing I can say to you, without doing the same as you do, is to tell you that you should wait for the blogs and real information before you jump the gun. Blizzard obviously did not go in-depth during Blizzcon, which is fine because spoiling the expansion before it is even out is the same as telling people if Jaina is a Dreadlord or not.
    I was referring to Metamorphosis. They said it clearly (was watching this real time) that they will remove Metamorphosis. That was the issue here.
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

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