Mythic Mannoroth - Tips, Tricks and RNGesus

[Deleted]

So Mannoroth mythic, a lot of approaches and different strategies for positioning and handling his crushing combinations of abilities. Most people probably figured out a strategy to go for, but missed some details about how to handle gazes/forces/wrathes. So do I. So here are some questions:

- Can a Player with Wrath of Gul'dan get a Shadowforce or Gaze? I'm pretty sure that 1st is a yes. But also the Gaze? If yes, how do you handle it?
- What immunities work to remove one of the three? What works to even prevent it? (if there is something) etc.
- whatever you think is worth sharing

cheers

[Tojara]

You can't get gaze when you have wrath of Gul'dan, you certainly can get shadowforce though, so prepare for that.

AMS, cloak, ice block and bubble can all immune the debuff. The only thing to take note of is that unlike every other immunity listed, cloak for whatever reason doesn't work if you don't time it correctly. Basically you have to cloak as the debuff is going out, there have been times where our rogues had cloak up too early and still ended up with the debuff.

Honestly don't put much emphasis on wasting immunities on the debuff. DKs are essentially the only free pass and should be using their AMS for it every single time. It's a nice bonus to skip a doomguard, but don't plan your strategy around using immunities because it will rarely work out like that. The only really nice ones to skip are the ones between 65 and 35 percent, so if you want to blindly throw immunities out pick one of them in that percentage range. If you skip one here you really only have to deal with one doomguard the entire phase, which helps a lot, but is certainly not required.

Fight is a bitch and there are a lot of little nuances with the timings that will cause some problems. The only tips I can give about timings is try and dispel each doomguard number consistently each time (don't dispel them all instantly because some of them line up with some abilities weirdly, especially in the *second real phase*). If the timing doesn't work either dispel it sooner or dispel it later for example. Don't for instance dispel the fifth doomguard five seconds into the debuff one attempt and then 10 seconds the next time. I don't recall the favorable timings for dispels, but the abilities will line up the same every single time if you dispel the same time each time.

"His" abilities will reset between phases. The adds will reset their timings as well, but some of the adds will start charging well before the phase ends and will fire off regardless. For example you can get multiple imp waves in quick succession if you go from the first to second phase with ~15 seconds left on the imp timer. Doomguard is the same, if you have roughly 10-12 seconds on the doomguard timer when pushing to 65%, you will get another doomguard, which will probably cause a wipe. From what we could tell that doomguard timing isn't the same when you push 35% because he physically destroys the pillar that spawn them, so as long as it physically doesn't fire you won't get a doomguard at 35% if there are like 3-5 seconds left on the timer (at least from our experiences).

Don't ignore imps ever. Positioning is really important and not getting all the imps down cleanly, nor gripped cleanly will cause a good portion of wipes during progression. Be prepared to single grip rogue imps immediately that spawn from players being in terrible positions and/or if imps decide to spawn on people who are being shadowforced (which can happen, and is really fucking annoying).

P3 really didn't take that long for us. The real goal is getting to P3 cleanly, with hopefully some rezzes available. Which is easier said than done.

[Natureseer]

there are a LOT of timings that youre going to need to figure out.

you must push into phase 2 with >10 seconds remaining on the doomguard timer. if there are less than 10 seconds remaining, it will still spawn, and ruin your phase two. this will depend on how you use your rings. during phase 2 you are going to need to learn the dispel timers. it varies with each different strategies and timings, but there is at least one that you are going to need to dispel with <5 seconds remaining. my advice is: choose one strategy and stick to it. its going to be a fight where you have to learn it one part at a time. not just each phase, but each part of each phase. by the time you kill it, the fight will be like clockwork.

[Deleted]

As others have previously stated, Wrath targets are eligible Shadowforce targets. However, Shadowforce interacts differently with Mark of Doom (and this is quite relevant with most strats), in the sense that people who are currently Marked are not eligible Shadowforce targets. This promotes delaying the dispel on certain Doom Lords to avoid having having Shadowforce go out immediately after Marks are dealt with (whether with Doom Spike or SBV), in which case any players who had Mark that get picked for Shadowforce will usually be knocked off the platform with no recourse.

[Deleted]

this boss is an RNG fuckery. nough said.

Not that it's a super mechanically difficult (dont get me wrong, its a hard boss). it's just that bad rng on selected people of certain mechanics can make things more complicated and sometimes difficult to adjust to mid pull.

[Nalam the Venom]

So the easiest guy on Normal/Heroic Becomes the hardest on mythic.. Dam That's some insane difficulty spike then

[scmeck]

this boss is an RNG fuckery. nough said.

Not that it's a super mechanically difficult (dont get me wrong, its a hard boss). it's just that bad rng on selected people of certain mechanics can make things more complicated and sometimes difficult to adjust to mid pull.

Sounds like a strategy related problem. We never had problems with RNG fucking us, the fight is kind of tight with the timings on doom lords and transitioning, otherwise it should be fine. What kind of RNG is ruining it for you?

[Tojara]

Sounds like a strategy related problem. We never had problems with RNG fucking us, the fight is kind of tight with the timings on doom lords and transitioning, otherwise it should be fine. What kind of RNG is ruining it for you?

Most of the RNG can be controlled with proper timing and planning around certain scenarios. If we had a couple of our soakers get wrath of gul'dan in the last phase, we just used backups. People with wrath of gul'dan getting shadow forced is annoying, but can be made up with gateways, or prioritizing classes with blinks on potential markers farther away. Furthermore, you can solve a lot of these issues with different positioning of the boss in the first few phases.

The only RNG that we found that was annoying was imps spawning when shadowforce was occuring during the second phase, sometimes causing 1-3 imps to be in really awful places. But that's the only thing I can think of.

[Deleted]

We are the right gear level to suicide 2-3 of the Wraths in last phase yet?

[Deleted]

We are the right gear level to suicide 2-3 of the Wraths in last phase yet?

I'd argue it's infinitely easier to just suicide the melee Wraths in the last phase so long as you have 20 people alive going in, even if you can't rez them. There simply isn't a DPS check in that phase any more so long as you don't lose 10 people early and you don't die to Imps.

They simply cause far, far more trouble than they're worth.

[Deleted]

I'd argue it's infinitely easier to just suicide the melee Wraths in the last phase so long as you have 20 people alive going in, even if you can't rez them. There simply isn't a DPS check in that phase any more so long as you don't lose 10 people early and you don't die to Imps.

They simply cause far, far more trouble than they're worth.

Contemplating doing that, clearing the healer + dkorwarlock wrath and throwing the other 3 away.

[kushlol]

Contemplating doing that, clearing the healer + dkorwarlock wrath and throwing the other 3 away.

No reason to suicide people with wrath you can definitely survive until the end of the fight with wrath without killing anyone else or clearing stacks.

[Deleted]

No reason to suicide people with wrath you can definitely survive until the end of the fight with wrath without killing anyone else or clearing stacks.

In theory, yes, you absolutely can. In practice, it's enough of a mess during Shadowforce in the last phase that you may as well suicide them. You don't need their DPS anyway, and at least that way they can't possibly get other people killed.

[cashballer]

Why doesn't anyone use a pillar for Empowered Shadowforce in the last phase? Haven't attempted this boss yet, but I feel like I must be missing something.

[wordup]

Why doesn't anyone use a pillar for Empowered Shadowforce in the last phase? Haven't attempted this boss yet, but I feel like I must be missing something.

Pillar hits for 200k~ a second onto players in range so you'll be killed extremely quickly if you try and get pushed into that given the shadowforce damage on top of it.

[cashballer]

Pillar hits for 200k~ a second onto players in range so you'll be killed extremely quickly if you try and get pushed into that given the shadowforce damage on top of it.

Ah gotcha, that's what overflowing fel energy is. Thanks

[Deleted]

Ah gotcha, that's what overflowing fel energy is. Thanks

You can have your tank get pushed into it and have them survive it somewhat comfortably, which is often optimal since the boss casts a Glaive combo immediately after the first Shadowforce, but any other player is guaranteed to die bar using a 90% reduction or an immunity.

[Dracodraco]

You can have your tank get pushed into it and have them survive it somewhat comfortably, which is often optimal since the boss casts a Glaive combo immediately after the first Shadowforce, but any other player is guaranteed to die bar using a 90% reduction or an immunity.

One thing to note is that the debuffs from Wrath did seems to amplify the dmg we took from the pillar on our first kill (our monk who was helping the healer instantly got smacked for 150-200Ks, rather than the buildup).

[Overdispersion]

We somehow managed to skip p2 (or p3 by encounter journal) wraths this week. Was just generally really odd timing which I'm not sure what I can attribute to.

[Arrow91]

Do you have logs?