Credit card signatures are irrelevent

[Stormspellz]

So for the past 2 months I've been experimenting with credit card signatures on the electronic pads. I've used names such as Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Odin protector of the nine realms, Sean Connery, hell I've even just signed yes on the machine and nobody cares. It's clear that nobody checks these things. I haven't been flagged by the card company or anything. Anybody could be using my card since nobody even checks the card.


Since credit card signatures are irrelevent they should just be done away with completely.

they are used for after the fact on discrepancies. While most stores don't check signatures in the name of speed, their approach is the few fraudulent transactions is just the price of business and often the bill for the fraud lies with the credit card company

[breadisfunny]

credit card signatures? don't you have chip and pin there? the shop i worked in, we wouldn't take the card unless they could chip and pin.

we don't have them here. they aren't required in the u.s.a. since it allows companies to make businesses out of protecting your identity instead of you know actually protecting your identity.

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Bugger card fraud, what if someone steals my card! In the UK you still need to enter PIN.

here in the u.s. only debit cards require pin numbers. credit cards don't require them.

[Lotus Victoria]

I laughed a little bit at the examples.
Protector of the nine realms. lol

[Annoying]

Chip cards are rolling out in the US now and will be taking over soon (because the credit card companies are going to force merchants to eat fraud costs on non-chip transactions soon).

However, for some reason we're not going to chip-and-pin; we're going chip-and-signature which is... less good. Why? I have no damn idea.

Yep, I've got a chip-and-signature card. I've also got android pay, meaning I have chip-and-pin on the debit card. That's pretty legit.

[Septik]

the only time the sig is or was ever looked at was in fraud cases. so if you dont call them saying your card is lost or that you didnt make a purchase, and you dont set off any automated systems, no one cares.

[Masark]

Also, how in the hell does the US not have chip cards already? I've had my current physical card for like 6 years now, and it's chipped. Chips are the standard, here in Canada, and have been for pretty much that whole time.

Because the US system is a flaming clusterfuck and the people being harmed by it aren't the ones with power to enact changes. Fraud doesn't cost Visa and Mastercard a cent. They just shove it up the merchants' asses.

Therefore, they've been dragging their feet on C&P, as they would have to bear the cost, but they wouldn't obtain any benefit.

When I worked for a POS company, I know of 5 customers who were driven into bankruptcy by credit card fraud in just the 8 months I worked there.

[Azgraal]

Thanks OP, i've just decided to have my firstborn named "Odin protector of the nine realms 'my-last-name'".

[Jotaux]

Because the US system is a flaming clusterfuck and the people being harmed by it aren't the ones with power to enact changes. Fraud doesn't cost Visa and Mastercard a cent. They just shove it up the merchants' asses.

Yeah in my parent's restaurant we had a few disputed charges but even after providing the signed receipt we never won the disputes. It was only around $20-$30 each so it really wasn't worth fighting for.

[Schmeebs]

Yep, I've got a chip-and-signature card. I've also got android pay, meaning I have chip-and-pin on the debit card. That's pretty legit.

Using Android-Pay does not mean you are using Chip-and-pin technology. That would be NFC technology and in the case of Android (and Apple Pay) it uses PAN data similar to MagStripe data not EMV data.

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It's semi required in the USA starting Thursday.

No, its not even semi-required.

What happens on thursday is Liability Shifts, meaning that Merchants who do not have Chip enabled terminals will be liable for fraud from chip enabled cards immediately, rather than it being on the card issuer side.

There is no requirement to accept EMV, nobody is going to shit down a business that cannot take EMV, they just have a higher risk of chargeback/fraud.

[Polar1]

O.o
I haven't been to the US in a while but... a signature is still required instead of a pin/chip combo?

[Deleted]

Mine just use a chip - and if I buy something cheap (30 dollars or less) I just have to wave my visa at the machine and its done - no code or anything. I wonder how long that system is going to last, I see some potential problems with the security

[nextt03]

The company I work for just spent $30,000 on our 18 stores to get chip reading terminals. Chip cards have been around in the US, its just no one actually had the equipment to read them because it was expensive and before Thursday it didn't really matter. Now, as stated, the liability is on the retail store so they are getting their shit updated like my work is.

[Schmeebs]

Mine just use a chip - and if I buy something cheap (30 dollars or less) I just have to wave my visa at the machine and its done - no code or anything. I wonder how long that system is going to last, I see some potential problems with the security

Depends on the merchants type of business, generally the rule is less than $25 (or $50 if its a grocery store) a signature isn't required. Even when signatures are required, most cashiers don't bother verifying the signature against the back of the card, all the signature pad does is receive the signature, it doesn't verify anything.

[Aquinan]

It's semi required in the USA starting Thursday.

Wow welcome to 4 years ago haha

[A dot Ham]

So for the past 2 months I've been experimenting with credit card signatures on the electronic pads. I've used names such as Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Odin protector of the nine realms, Sean Connery, hell I've even just signed yes on the machine and nobody cares. It's clear that nobody checks these things. I haven't been flagged by the card company or anything. Anybody could be using my card since nobody even checks the card.


Since credit card signatures are irrelevent they should just be done away with completely.

*irrelevant* (that squiggly red line means you have spelled it incorrectly)

Two things:

(1) You card should be signed or say "see ID" in which case the signature should be verified by the clerk. Shame on them for not checking (but that's on the merchant)

(2) The signature does become relevant in fraud cases. If the signatures being provided don't match your typical signature then there is a strong possibly the charges are not/were not authorized.

Though, since you're being a little smart ass about it, you're probably going to have significant difficulty getting legitimately unauthorized charges taken off your account.

You may even try to commit your own fraud and claim that these charges weren't authorized you and try to get them taken off your account. That will probably work for a while. But sooner or later it will catch up with you.

Bottom line is you aren't nearly as cute and clever as you think you are.

[A dot Ham]

Mine just use a chip - and if I buy something cheap (30 dollars or less) I just have to wave my visa at the machine and its done - no code or anything. I wonder how long that system is going to last, I see some potential problems with the security

The purpose of that is to reduce the amount of times your pin is used. The less it used, the less the likelihood your pin# will be stolen.

[Schmeebs]

*irrelevant* (that squiggly red line means you have spelled it incorrectly)

Two things:

(1) You card should be signed or say "see ID" in which case the signature should be verified by the clerk.

See ID is not Valid under VISA's guidelines. VISA's Guidelines for Merchant card acceptance say in cases that it says See ID to instruct the cardholder to sign the card in front of you.

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/downlo...-merchants.pdf

Page 33.

[A dot Ham]

See ID is not Valid under VISA's guidelines. VISA's Guidelines for Merchant card acceptance say in cases that it says See ID to instruct the cardholder to sign the card in front of you.

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/downlo...-merchants.pdf

Page 33.

Care to explain how someone is going to sign a legible signature on top of something that reads "SEE ID" or "ASK FOR ID"

"However, it can slow down a sale and annoy the customer. In some cases, it may even deter the use of the Visa card and result in the loss of a potential sale." Pg 34

Asking a customer to sign the card when they are under the impression that "SEE ID" is sufficient, is likely to have the same effect.

But your argument is irrelevant as I am trying to point out it is the responsibility of the merchant to verify the card. If they choose not to, its on them.

However, the likelihood that a merchant is going to receive a chargeback simply because they did not force the customer to sign their card, after verifying a photo ID and comparing signature from that ID, are slim to none.

[Schmeebs]

Care to explain how someone is going to sign a legible signature on top of something that reads "SEE ID" or "ASK FOR ID"

"However, it can slow down a sale and annoy the customer. In some cases, it may even deter the use of the Visa card and result in the loss of a potential sale." Pg 34

Asking a customer to sign the card when they are under the impression that "SEE ID" is sufficient, is likely to have the same effect.

But your argument is irrelevant as I am trying to point out it is the responsibility of the merchant to verify the card. If they choose not to, its on them.

However, the likelihood that a merchant is going to receive a chargeback simply because they did not force the customer to sign their card, after verifying a photo ID and comparing signature from that ID, are slim to none.

What people will and will not do is not what I was arguing, you were saying that See ID is a valid, which it isn't.

Merchants barely follow half of the proper guidelines for card acceptance, and they wonder why they get reamed by fraud.

Chargeback rates for average merchants are actually fairly low for most business types. And if your chargeback rate starts going up at any point, the merchants credit card processor will immediately start investigating.

[zenkai]

So for the past 2 months I've been experimenting with credit card signatures on the electronic pads. I've used names such as Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Odin protector of the nine realms, Sean Connery, hell I've even just signed yes on the machine and nobody cares. It's clear that nobody checks these things. I haven't been flagged by the card company or anything. Anybody could be using my card since nobody even checks the card.


Since credit card signatures are irrelevent they should just be done away with completely.

Ive done the same thing.. Also one time I was buying some shirts at the Mall and I had a new CC, the lady taking it told me the card was invalid because it wasn't signed. I took her pen and signed it and handed it back to her, she swiped it and I got my stuff, but not after she gave me a dirty look lol I know she is technically right but the whole thing is just a joke.

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credit card signatures? don't you have chip and pin there? the shop i worked in, we wouldn't take the card unless they could chip and pin.

Some places like walmart will only let me use my chip card in the chip reader and wont let me swipe it, other places that has a chip reader can't read my card so I have to swipe it.