I don't understand people ilvl requirements for normal WoD raids

[justinhalfout]

Only yesterday in EU i saw this in trade: LFM Timewalker dungeon spam 700+

Not only do some people want to be carried,their average IQ level appears to have degenerated too

[Amantino]

I saw people asking for 700+ for garrison invasion so its pretty normal.

I ask this. Overkill? Absolutely. But it makes it a lot easier, and I just want it done quick and clean. And in the cases where the person is lacking skill, gear will make up for that. I'm not interested in failing the platinum requirements, period. Nor am I interested in carrying someone that does 1/10 of my damage "because it was intended for that itemlevel".

[Xenryusho]

I find it difficult getting into groups for normal hellfire at 717 ilvl and 9/13 M. Even if you meet the requirement for the ilvl it doesn't mean you'll be accepted. Especially if you're melee. I wish they'd rework LFR to be rewarding and have some sort of actual challenge. Makes it very difficult to play with a casual friend when we can't even get into a group. Even worse when I get denied from a group he gets accepted to.

[Barnabas]

I saw people asking for 700+ for garrison invasion so its pretty normal.

I wouldn't ever apply to a garrison invasion unless it was a friend that needed help. Why waste your time on that nonsense with a stranger?

[Spiral Mage]

I'd contribute beyond the obvious, that with 695 gear from Tanaan Jungle having been a thing for a very long time now, having an item level close to 700 is easily done, assuming you're actively playing (which as sad as I am to realize this, I haven't been at all for months ..), so people asking for it is not a real shock.

I want to say: "Is it reasonable or realistic? No". But while the item level they are asking for is far more than is needed, you can also get that item level easily, so all they're expecting with that is that you've been actively playing and have been working on your gear. Anyone who cares about gearing up, has 690+ by now or can get it shortly (if you're hitting 100 with an alt late, or something).

I am not suggesting or supporting that you need 690 to do HighMaul or BlackRock, that's ridiculous. But other than going for the sights, what other reason do you have now?

If you want to talk about warped. We can get 695 gear from dailies, but HFC Normal only drops 690. So aside from maybe tier pieces, it's all downgrades. (Weapon might not be, 695 weapons have funky damage averages). If you've done your dailies every day, then you have no upgrades unless you're doing Heroic HFC and even then, those aren't terribly impressive beyond a weapon and tier pieces. Hell, not even a weapon if you're like my Little Miss, who has the Engineering Gun maxed out, and all the drops from Doom Lord Kazzak.

So item level is pretty screwed for HFC/H-HFC.

People also have some VERY warped opinions of how much DPS someone should be doing to be considered good, often expecting more DPS output than a person with that item level is reasonably capable of doing. I'd say, currently, allowing for as much as 10-15% under what they should be doing, is about where I'd draw the line. If they're under that, I'm probably gonna say something to them. You know, if I was actually leading a raid.

I'd also only ask for an item level that was reasonable achievable for the raid I am doing. HFC is just murky due to Tanaan Jungle gear, making an extremely high item level readily obtainable, so.

But then I'm far more patient and understanding than your average PUG Raid Leader. Comes from having alot of -actual- raid leading experience, and having long been devoted to being as knowledgeable about this game as I could be, for many years. That, and you know, I actually play this game for fun .. or did, and I liked to make sure others felt like they were treated fairly and were able to have fun when they play with me.

Wish we had more people just focusing on having fun, and less on their precious egos.

[Deleted]

Bosshealt ÷ x dps = a min dps p.p
And u wont get min dps by a to low itlvl.
Some ppl ate to lazy to run a view lfr or other
Stuf to gear up etc.
So no evort no inv.

[Skylarking]

It is just pricks doing it at a ridiculously high item level requirement because they dont want supposed "bads" and want carries, you should probably just start your own pug

I would do this alot more often... if tanks weren't so rare. Don't blame them for being hard to find though.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The reason it is a thing boils down to if you take in a whole group of people of "the correct item level" it is usually a total fucking disaster. Since people can get caught up to that item level so fast these days you have people that dinged 100 less then a week ago. A ton of them have absolutely no idea how to play their class or about the fights. They just know "normal = easy and normal HFC + highest gear can get -- go there. They just want to gear up quicker and with less effort. The truth is that most the people with that item level were geared in the same fashion so it turns out to be a disaster anyway but.. at least they can power though some of the abilities and fights because let us be honest.. most of the pugs are 1-6 stomps MOST the time.. a few more get a few bosses after that.. then a very select few go higher. Usually going higher by making the item level/achievement more and more ridiculous as you go along.

[Sylvaeres]

I make Archimonde and Mannoroth 30 Man's all the time for normal. 3 runs a week, and I always require 700 I LvL. I do it because pugs are usually not the ones to push 75% ranks or higher, and therefor I won't be bringing people under 700 I lvl. I always replace the low DPS/HPS after Mannoroth, because I'm not here to carry people. If you can't carry your own weight, you should find another raid. Call me what you want, but I've been 1 shotting both bosses since mid-July and I'd like to keep it that way

[Xenryusho]

most of the pugs are 1-6 stomps MOST the time.

Most of the time, seriously? How do you get into those groups? The only groups I can find can't make it past assault and reaver. We wipe because no one got out of barrage and then the vast majority of the group leaves and we wait an hours to wipe again. What ilvl do you need to get into these groups, 725? It's near impossible to get into groups right now regardless of experience and gear and when you do they're the worst experiences you could have. I really don't want him to quit, but I can't stand spending every day looking for a pug just so he could see some actual content. LFR is a joke, it's boring (no mechanics) and takes forever since everyone is afk, there's no content outside of raids so it's near impossible to get him to keep playing.

PuG culture is toxic as hell. They require absurd ilvls for easy content, then even if you far exceed these ilvls and have experience that absolutely crushes the content you're still rejected the vast majority of times. Then you finally get into one and lo' and behold there's a shitty player raging nonstop and shit talking that people are too afraid to kick because he's doing more than 10k dps, meanwhile the group is wiping endlessly to the first two bosses because people despite the vigorous requirements and horrific screening process. I can't even get my best friend to keep paying his sub and honestly I can't blame him. There is NO reason to keep playing this game if you don't have a guild.

[Theholypally]

Hello. What is the deal with 690+ and 700+ ilvl for HM and Blackrock Foundry normal mode. Why would you do that when there is no reward for you? You already have higher level gear, so what's the deal?

For achievements, most likely, thus not wanting to waste time and not wanting to deal with the headache of carrying people.

[Khorm]

You can tell the scrub lords in this thread.

"People only want high ilvl so they can get carried".

How about people only want high ilvl so they don't have to carry.

[Herogamer555]

If you don't like it, make your own groups.

[dexx]

I have seen many people with 700 ilvl doing 35k dps

Without 2/4 tier set and HFC trinkets, 35k isnt unreasonable (excluding cooldowns and favorable RNG).

[Vynx]

I havent done any own pugs in wod, but I have seen many people with 700 ilvl doing 35k dps or even less. Thats why some might come to the conclusion that high ilvls are required. If Im declined with 690 for a mythic dungeon I dont blame them. People just dont know their class these days.

Even at 700 ilvl, if you don't have legendary ring/set bonuses/hfc trinkets, you're gonna have a hard time pulling more on single target. Except if you're a hunter or mage.

PuG culture is toxic as hell. They require absurd ilvls for easy content, then even if you far exceed these ilvls and have experience that absolutely crushes the content you're still rejected the vast majority of times. Then you finally get into one and lo' and behold there's a shitty player raging nonstop and shit talking that people are too afraid to kick because he's doing more than 10k dps, meanwhile the group is wiping endlessly to the first two bosses because people despite the vigorous requirements and horrific screening process. I can't even get my best friend to keep paying his sub and honestly I can't blame him. There is NO reason to keep playing this game if you don't have a guild.

Being a casual raider for a long time, I'm VERY tempted to get into a serious raiding guild, because of this reason. I have been a raider, but only for short periods of time, since I was displeased by the performance of the guilds I joined. That's one of my faults, I can't tolerate people who are doing the same mistakes over and over, they being kept in the roster just because he/she is friends with GM/RL w/e. And serious guilds require a relevant raiding history, logs and stuff, which I cannot provide. And considering HFC, who would recruit a melee who still struggles to get some HC gear (no curve ofc, you need to prove yourself when a RL has the kindness to invite you), being relevant for mythic progress? (cuz honestly, the guilds who are not by now 13/13 HC are just bad; my previous one couldn't kill Archi on normal geez). Sorry for being off topic, but I had to take it off my chest.

[MrExcelion]

Pug organizers ask for what they can get, rather than what the content is tuned for, in a reasonable amount of time. Yeah, I know this aint right but that's just how it is

[Okacz]

Hello. What is the deal with 690+ and 700+ ilvl for HM and Blackrock Foundry normal mode. Why would you do that when there is no reward for you? You already have higher level gear, so what's the deal?

WoD raids, especially Upper Hellfire Citadel, are extremly pug unfriendly. Iskar or Xhul are quite easy with good communication, and very hard when no communication is present. To struggle past those groups simply prefer to make sure players a) have already beaten them and b) have the gear to bypass mechanics.

They made Normal mode too difficult in HFC, but I believe it was quite OK in BRF - and there I had little to no problems getting into pugs with less gear/experiance.

[Albimoo]

Why wouldnt people get the most geared possible group to stomp content that they only want gear from? If its possible go ham, no one who has cleared mythic/heroic/whatever makes them feel big dick, wants to mess around wiping in normal on an alt.

Am guilty and would 10/10 require higher than average ilvl so I limit the odds of wiping while trying to get gear on the 3rd character I want to raid on.

I know that the first thing people will respond with will be "But gear doesnt meant the person knows how to play their class, bad people can get gear and all the good playerrs just always get screwed out of it".

K

You're not wrong but im willing to bet a pretty shitty player with 4p and class trinket at ilvl 7-whatever will be able to outdps your 680 fresh ding that you feel like you should be able to get into a run because... reasons (Special snowflake syndrome?).

TLDR: Not much to really understand, people take it as a quantitative measure of a persons ability.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Because pugs are usually led by mentally-deficient people with poor knowledge of the game and so they try to brute force their way through content. I was doing normal arch on my 700 ilevel druid alt (my main is a 725 mythic priest) and this asshole 711 druid made some stupid comment about how my gear is awful and I have some baleful pieces and I get booted quickly by the raid lead all because some older douchebag wanted more of the loot to roll for himself. Looking at his logs, he is below average for his ilevel and from my logs I'm about 80th percentile but set bonuses and certain op trinkets are worth so much that he outhealed me by about 10-15k hps, and given his attitude, I bet it was mostly scumbag padding, he was very low on mana when we wiped. He even scum bagged on the trash by using the haste tanking trinket to pad his burst healing and the meters. I've done the content on 5 toons, so I know that my healing was more than plenty to down the boss but padding the meters gave him creed with the ignorant raid lead.

The pug mentality is obsessed with numbers. I've seen warlocks blow their terror guard on pull to pad their meters rather than save it for infernal on archimonde during lust when its needed because they need to pad the meters to not get booted. If you get a touch-of-doom type mechanic early and have to run out of the raid and it messes up your opener, you get the boot!

PUGS are often just toxic places filled with all the degenerate Elliot Rodgers and Chris Mercers-types. Lots of black-and-white thinking, incredibly antisocial repugnant behavior, and a sense of being better than others. But that's most of the wow raiding population anyways. Most don't have the intellectual capacity to learn to play a class properly and in sync with others and raid mechanics. They just grind for gear until they grossly outgear the content they're doing and feel like this makes them some kind of expert when its in fact makes them arrogant idiots.

[Vynx]

PUGS are often just toxic places filled with all the degenerate Elliot Rodgers and Chris Mercers-types. Lots of black-and-white thinking, incredibly antisocial repugnant behavior, and a sense of being better than others. But that's most of the wow raiding population anyways. Most don't have the intellectual capacity to learn to play a class properly and in sync with others and raid mechanics. They just grind for gear until they grossly outgear the content they're doing and feel like this makes them some kind of expert when its in fact makes them arrogant idiots.

Oh, I've seen this in guilds happening also. And not once. But PuGs are truly a distasteful experience.