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  1. #1
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Critique My Personal Tier List

    Typically I play just about every champion depending on what I think is best for the game / team comp - or I just play whatever I feel like playing stylistically (ex. today is a Nidalee day, because Meow). I would like to standardize my champion pool though so I can focus more on having real mastery over a select few (my quest for Diamond). This is what I'm thinking so far:

    Junglers:

    Elise - one of my long-time favourites, very flexible

    Evelynn - my personal strongest jungler, she just clicks with me, but has a lot of hard counters and comps

    Rek'Sai - this should be my AD jungler? I admit I don't play her as much as I should

    Nidalee - I'm good with skill shots, I love her mobility and heal support flexibility

    Warwick - tanky enough for not getting counter-jungled, strong ganks, good counter-tank (BotRK)

    Shyvana? Olaf?


    Mid:

    *Malzahar - strong wave clear, high CC for dueling and teamfights (this should be your mid main for ranked), can probably take Flash+Teleport

    Diana - strong Assassin, strong anti-melee


    Viktor - strong / team-fight / late game


    Twisted Fate - safe / strong ult / stun / wave clear, can take Flash+Teleport for tons of map presence

    Varus - strong AD poke / harass


    Support:

    Janna - strong / safe pick for me (like my Sivir), but really relies on the ADC 'getting it'

    Annie - Orbital Bombearedment is OP in solo Q, plus if your ADC sucks you just become a mage

    Blitzcrank - I'm good with skill-shots and nothing breaks a bot lane stalemate like a Blitz grab, or initiates a 5v5, does well with Zeke's, doesn't feel tanky though

    Thresh - I keep telling myself to get good with him but never do

    Sona - seems to compensate really well for lack of communication in solo Q, heals are great, fantastic ult, etc

    *Lux - similar to Sona / Annie

    Morgana - similar to Annie / Lux



    ADC:

    *Sivir - strong safe pick, especially versus Blitz/Thresh/Naut/Leona

    Jinx - no escape, do not pick into Blitz/Thresh/Naut

    Tristana - weak early game, do not pick into early poke/dive champs



    Top Lane:

    Darius - OP
    Black Cleaver + Mercurial Scepter?

    Irelia - safe pick all around
    Trinity Force + Spirit Visage?

    Fiora - great duelist
    Black Cleaver + Ravenous Hydra

    *Vlad - safe/strong pick for me top (naturally good with him)
    Will of the Ancients + Spirit Visage / Rylais / Abyssal / Void Staff

    Shen - strong teamfight pick, terrible lane phase though (strong vs weak tops)
    BotRK + Spirit Visage?


    This made me realize that for someone who mains jungle, I don't really know what my go-to Jungler is anymore. I'm strongest on Evelynn and Nidalee, and then Elise and Sejuani - but they are all AP for me: I don't have real mastery over any AD jungler: I'm debating Warwick or Reksai, both have good hard CC for Solo Q picks. I used to be pretty good with Olaf top, maybe he becomes my AD jungler?

    Let me know which I should de-emphasize, and which I should focus more effort on.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2015-10-07 at 11:06 PM.
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  2. #2
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    You definitely should not stick to one build path/champion. Every game is different : Build according to the enemy team. NEVER create a build before the game has even started. This is one of the best advice i could give you (I hit plat 2 last season as Mid/adc main).
    If you want to climb you should only stick to 1-3 champions per role, even if you're comfortable with a lot of them ! It takes a lot of time to understand all the matchups for every single champion. And you need to know all of that if you want to reach Diamond.
    Overall i'd also advise you to pick the champions you prefer/are most comfortable with, and just keep playing those.

    Jungle : If you're good with skillshots Nidalee and Elise are the best. If you think you are able to play Rek'sai well, consider her : She's a solid pick. I don't recommend you to choose Warwick over her. TBH i'm not sure about Olaf and Shyv. Their ganks are weak but they snowball well and are solid overall... But not as much as the others you listed, as junglers.
    If it is your main role, try to find out which champion you love the most and stick with them.

    Mid : All of these picks are amazing ! Just try to restrain yourself to 2-3 of them. ImO TF, Malz and Viktor are the strongest out of them.

    Support : Good at landing skillshots ? Then just train Blitzcrank and Thresh (!). If your adc is immobile, it's often better to go for Janna.
    Don't pick Lux support (unless you really want to play her). You need to get some AP with this champion to do anything, and unless you manage to get a 15 stacks Mejai at 20:00 you are just useless after the laning phase. Morgana does her job better.

    ADC : Pick your best, all 3 are good. If the enemy team is full of assassins don't pick Jinx. If they are all immobile, Sivir is not the best choice. Trist is the most versatile of them and does well against Vayne, the most picked champion ATM.

    Top : Darius/Fiora are often getting banned, so i don't know if it's a good idea to choose them.
    Again, they are all good. Shen is amazing at shutting down Riven. If you play a lot of top you know that you will have to face this particular champion a lot, so it might be a good idea to pick him up.

    I don't know wich Elo you're playing at. At lower elos (Bronze/Silver), snowbally picks work better while teamfight oriented champions aren't as good (Nidalee, Diana, (TF), Blitzcrank, Jinx, Irelia, Fiora are the best out of your list to get fed and roll on the enemy team).
    Overall your champion pool is strong and flexible. Just lighten it !
    And again, build according to the enemy comp/laner. When you're facing Riven you DON'T want to go full 0 armor. When, as an ADC, there's a Malz in the enemy team, you HAVE to get a QSS. It's really important.
    You also have to learn, if you haven't yet, to counterpick and not to pick certain champions first in the champion select.
    Last edited by mmoc31e79dec12; 2015-10-06 at 10:03 PM.

  3. #3
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Support Lux? o.O

  4. #4
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isander View Post
    You definitely should not stick to one build path/champion. Every game is different : Build according to the enemy team. NEVER create a build before the game has even started. This is definitely one of the best advice i could give you (I hit plat 2 last season).
    Ya sorry for the confusion originally it was an internal email just for me to get my thoughts down - so the items were just me thinking outloud: it's not a fixed item build order or anything.

    If you want to climb you should only stick to 1-3 champions per role, even if you're comfortable with a lot of them ! It takes a lot of time to understand all the matchups for every single champion. And you need to know all of that if you want to reach Diamond.
    Ya - this is the stage I'm at right now - I'm gold but I need to narrow my champion pool to gain true mastery if I want to go further up at this point: looking for outside feedback on how to narrow

    Overall i'd also advise you to pick the champions you prefer/are most comfortable with, and just keep playing those.
    So just Evelynn in every role, you're saying?

    Jungle : If you're good with skillshots just take Nidalee and Elise. If you think you are able to play Rek'sai well, consider her : She's a solid pick. I don't recommend you to choose Warwick over her.
    I have almost no experience as Rek'sai, but conceptually she's sort of like a Landshark Nidalee - so I feel like I should like her. What I like about Warwick is the power of his ult for picks - I was thinking of him to fill in for my Sejuani now that she's shit: I can't really think of anyone who does what she does - apart from maybe Malphite (but I don't want to be a big slow rock).

    Support : If you're good at landing skillshots just train Blitzcrank and Thresh (!). If your adc is immobile, it's often better to go for Janna.
    Don't pick Lux support (unless you really want to play her). You need to get some AP with this champion to do anything, and unless you manage to stack a 15 stacks Mejai at 20:00 you are just useless after the laning phase. Morgana does her job better.
    I almost never play Lux, but what I was liking about her conceptually is her roots and snares are good for initiation/disengage - and her shield is team-wide for teamfights - plus I can back line and Laser people rather than having to get in their face as Morgana. Morgana was my original main though, and a long-time favourite - I just never bring her out anymore: so maybe that's what I'll do

    For whatever reason, Thresh just doesn't click for me - I really really wish he would.

    Top : Darius/Fiora are often getting banned, so i don't know if it's a good idea to choose them.
    Again, they are all good. Shen is strong at shutting down Riven. If you play a lot of top you know that you will have to face this particular champion a lot, so it might be a good idea to pick him up. As a top laner you will want to get a tank for your team if there's not any (!).
    I'm decent with all those top laners, Shen is definitely one of my more comfortable picks up there - though I don't usually take him vs Riven - I may need to try that.

    You also have to learn, if you haven't yet, to counterpick and not to pick certain champions first in the champion select.
    I think part of my problem is I spend too much time trying to counter-pick, and not enough time trying to pick what I want to be - so if I expect to gank the enemy midlaner I'll try to pick whatever I think is really good vs. them, even if it's something I almost never play. Instead it would be better if I were just amazing at Elise and Elise was decent against that same mid laner - so I'd go with what I'm good at + is good for what I want to do with it (gank mid).

    Like the other day I played Amumu, and it occurred to me that I have never played Amumu outside of ARAM before - but I thought it would be good for pairing with the top laner - that's when I realized I need to narrow my pool ><
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2015-10-06 at 10:07 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    So just Evelynn in every role, you're saying? .
    Isn't she your favorite champion, then ? Play her whenever you can !

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I have almost no experience as Rek'sai, but conceptually she's sort of like a Landshark Nidalee - so I feel like I should like her. What I like about Warwick is the power of his ult for picks - I was thinking of him to fill in for my Sejuani now that she's shit: I can't really think of anyone who does what she does - apart from maybe Malphite (but I don't want to be a big slow rock).
    Both are good at initiating and/or locking down people. It might be what you seek : A tanky jungler good at starting teamfights.
    Try out Jarvan IV, if you haven't yet. He might be just what you seek for an AD/Tank jungler (He can go both). If you are comfortable with him he'll become your ticket to Diamond ! (Don't want to force you out of your champion pool, though... Just wondering that you might like him ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I'm decent with all those top laners, Shen is definitely one of my more comfortable picks up there - though I don't usually take him vs Riven - I may need to try that.
    You will be forced to face a lot of Rivens at some point : she's really popular, and i've seen her win a lot of games by herself. Olaf and Shen are probably the best picks to shut her down. Try it out !

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I think part of my problem is I spend too much time trying to counter-pick, and not enough time trying to pick what I want to be - so if I expect to gank the enemy midlaner I'll try to pick whatever I think is really good vs. them, even if it's something I almost never play. Instead it would be better if I were just amazing at Elise and Elise was decent against that same mid laner - so I'd go with what I'm good at + is good for what I want to do with it (gank mid).

    Like the other day I played Amumu, and it occurred to me that I have never played Amumu outside of ARAM before - but I thought it would be good for pairing with the top laner.
    Just write down somewhere your options and stick with them. It's painful to see that X champion might do better in X specific situation than one of your mains but i can tell you for sure that it's better to play well Elise all the time than being okay with Amumu and pick him because he goes well with the top lane Wukong. Most of the high elo players i know (Plat - Master) tend to have a restricted champion pool, even if their knowledge of the game allows them to go with a lot more. And that's for a reason.
    Restrain yourself, just as you want to do. I might be wrong but it's a fact that I couldn't get past gold 2 before i choose to play like one champion per role, 3 for mid/adc. Your champion pool is flexible enough to deal with pretty much anything ! Just choose accordingly within it. And don't let your teammates influence you ;p
    Last edited by mmoc31e79dec12; 2015-10-06 at 10:36 PM.

  6. #6
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isander View Post
    Both are good at initiating and/or locking down people. It might be what you seek : A tanky jungler good at starting teamfights.
    Try out Jarvan IV, if you haven't yet. He might be just what you seek for an AD/Tank jungler (He can go both). If you are comfortable with him he'll become your ticket to Diamond ! (Don't want to force you out of your champion pool, though... Just wondering that you might like him ).
    Ya I usually don't play him because I hate fighting against J4's, and I don't want to be 'that guy' - but I should probably just accept that he's an annoying part of the game - and then add him to my retinue.


    You will be forced to face a lot of Rivens at some point : she's really popular, and i've seen her win a lot of games by herself. Olaf and Shen are probably the best picks to shut her down. Try it out !
    Generally my solution to Rivens has been to just pick something ranged like Lulu / Vlad and let her tire herself out on my bites/faeries. It would be good to have a top melee that is comfortable engaging with her though!


    Just write down somewhere your options and stick with them.
    Ya the outcome of this thread will go on a post-it on my monitor

    It's painful to see that X champion might do better in X specific situation than one of your mains but i can tell you for sure that it's better to play well Elise all the time than being okay with Amumu and pick him because he goes well with the top lane Wukong. Most of the high elo players i know (Plat - Master) tend to have a restricted champion pool, even if their knowledge of the game allows them to go with a lot more. And that's for a reason.
    Ya the other thing that triggered this, beside my abysmal Amumu performance the other day - was thinking through the World's commentary about how both the commentators and every team seem to know what every opposing player wants to play down to maybe 2-3 champions: and if they ban those they are practically deciding what a specific opponent is allowed to play. That made me realize just how rigid the World's level picks - if their favourite pick is banned, they'll play something sub-optimal that they are comfortable on - rather than picking something that would similarly do the job well to their preferred choice (what I tend to do). Even when they put that much time into the game, and probably know every champion better than I know any of them - they still won't risk going outside their champion pool: that tells you how much they value their personal mastery (over a champion) versus champion functionality/utility/role.

    Restrain yourself, just as you want to do. I might be wrong but it's a fact that I couldn't get past gold 2 before i choose to play like one champion per role, 3 for mid/adc. Your champion pool is flexible enough to deal with pretty much anything ! Just choose accordingly within it. And don't let your teammates influence you ;p
    That's the plan
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  7. #7
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Honestly, forget about counter picking. By and large, it's irrelevant. The key determining factor is fuck ups that people make when playing the champion and being able to capitalise on that. Anyone in gold will make plenty of mistakes to work with.

  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    For reference I think my list looks like this now:

    Jungle:
    Elise, Evelynn, J4, Nidalee

    Mid:
    Malzahar, Viktor, Varus

    Top:
    Vlad, Shen

    Support:
    Morgana, Janna, Blitzcrank/Thresh?

    ADC:
    Sivir, Trist

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Honestly, forget about counter picking. By and large, it's irrelevant. The key determining factor is fuck ups that people make when playing the champion and being able to capitalise on that. Anyone in gold will make plenty of mistakes to work with.
    That and making fewer of them myself - I know what mistakes look like before I make them on Elise and Evelynn (generally, obv) - but when I went Amumu the other night, I either thought I was too squishy to engage when I would have been fine, or I thought I was tankier than I really was: that's the sort of variability I'd eliminate by specializing and standardizing my play to fewer champions - I see the need now
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Ya I usually don't play him because I hate fighting against J4's, and I don't want to be 'that guy' - but I should probably just accept that he's an annoying part of the game - and then add him to my retinue.
    I don't get why you hate playing against him tbh . He's kinda straightforward but definitely not the most annoying champion to play against.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Ya the other thing that triggered this, beside my abysmal Amumu performance the other day - was thinking through the World's commentary about how both the commentators and every team seem to know what every opposing player wants to play down to maybe 2-3 champions: and if they ban those they are practically deciding what a specific opponent is allowed to play. That made me realize just how rigid the World's level picks - if their favourite pick is banned, they'll play something sub-optimal that they are comfortable on - rather than picking something that would similarly do the job well to their preferred choice (what I tend to do). Even when they put that much time into the game, and probably know every champion better than I know any of them - they still won't risk going outside their champion pool: that tells you how much they value their personal mastery (over a champion) versus champion functionality/utility/role.
    LCS in a nutshell !

    By the way, if you manage to get good at Thresh you will see that it's totally worth it. It is probably the best support all-around (The only thing he doesn't have is a heal...), he fits in any comp and does well against and with everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Honestly, forget about counter picking. By and large, it's irrelevant. The key determining factor is fuck ups that people make when playing the champion and being able to capitalise on that. Anyone in gold will make plenty of mistakes to work with.
    You might be right, considering the champion pool listed here. It becomes more important when you want to play characters with a fragile laning phase or easily countered like i did to get to plat, so i'm maybe giving too much importance to first pick/counterpicking...

    Anyway, that list looks great now. Just train, have fun and do your best~

  10. #10
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isander View Post
    I don't get why you hate playing against him tbh . He's kinda straightforward but definitely not the most annoying champion to play against.
    He's a jerk to Evelynn! All I want to do is scratch people and he either dives me and bullies me - or he counter-jungles - or he traps me in his stupid pit and forces me to hang out with him. People need to be scratched, they yearn to be scratched!

    By the way, if you manage to get good at Thresh you will see that it's totally worth it. It is probably the best support all-around (The only thing he doesn't have is a heal...), he fits in any comp and does well against and with everything.
    I'll give him another go I think ya - he's kind of like what I want out of Blitzcrank, except he does more things and better.

    Anyway, that list looks great now. Just train, have fun and do your best~
    Thanks for the help both of you!
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  11. #11
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Just a quick thought: your support line up is fairly squishy. Consider adding Braum or Alistar in there for a bit of a line backer.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Honestly, forget about counter picking. By and large, it's irrelevant. The key determining factor is fuck ups that people make when playing the champion and being able to capitalise on that. Anyone in gold will make plenty of mistakes to work with.
    Hurr durr i cunter pck dat mf by braum. 10 minutes later braums has 10 deaths.

    OT: your list is so bland that all of these champs can be called fotm. No Taric in support list 0/10
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    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Just a quick thought: your support line up is fairly squishy. Consider adding Braum or Alistar in there for a bit of a line backer.
    I don't really click with either, but I'm pretty good with Leona - will that work?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Hurr durr i cunter pck dat mf by braum. 10 minutes later braums has 10 deaths.

    OT: your list is so bland that all of these champs can be called fotm. No Taric in support list 0/10
    I lack the skills to Taric to Diamond, I know myself well enough to not try
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I don't really click with either, but I'm pretty good with Leona - will that work?
    I might be wrong since i've not played a lot of support this season but I think Blitz/Thresh are tanky enough and perfectly fit for ranked. Picking off people with a grab/hook is often better than initiating teamfights in soloq.

  15. #15
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I don't really click with either, but I'm pretty good with Leona - will that work?
    Leona is fairly pick oriented. Braum is more defensive. Alistar can do either.

    She'd fill the tank hole, but is a bit more risky if you fall behind than either Braum or Alistar.

  16. #16
    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Leona is fairly pick oriented. Braum is more defensive. Alistar can do either.

    She'd fill the tank hole, but is a bit more risky if you fall behind than either Braum or Alistar.
    I kind of like Braum's initiation, maybe I'll give that a whirl then - I've only played him a couple times.
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  17. #17
    Playing what you like and can have success with is by and large the most important thing, regardless of ap/ad/tank/assassin/whatever. But i would say counter picking is still important, less of you trying to counter pick them and more about not countering yourself. Sure you might like Vlad but if your opponents locked in tryndamere or nasus please take someone else, since its likely they picked them even without knowing their matchup because they can actually play them well.

    Also as an eve main i would never get abyssal on her. To much of it is wasted since she cares almost zero about spell pen and only partially wants ap. Hexdrinker is a better and cheaper option, and Liandries has the damage synergy with Rylais while also giving HP along with the pen/AP. I wouldn't recommend dead mans either since she has no problems getting to targets. It's more about sticking to them that matters, which rylais is amazing at. Personally i go runeglaive, tank boots, rylai, liandries, randuin, banshees with some variation on whos fed and who isnt.
    Last edited by Jibjabb; 2015-10-07 at 07:12 PM.

  18. #18
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    For me the most overpowered ADC's are Vayne and Draven.
    I think they win in 1v1 against all the other ADC's.
    And vayne is the most played champion in all regions because she is so OP.

    http://loldb.gameguyz.com/statistics/2/0/2/0/0/1
    Last edited by mmocaf0660f03c; 2015-10-07 at 06:34 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    For me the most overpowered ADC's are Vayne and Draven.
    I think they win in 1v1 against all the other ADC's.
    And vayne is the most played champion in all regions because she is so OP.

    http://loldb.gameguyz.com/statistics/2/0/2/0/0/1
    Neither of them are even in the top 50 of Win % and still behind many other ADCs for winning (Ashe, Varus, Miss Fortune, Caitlyn, Jinx, Ezreal, Graves). Not saying that means everything but neither does popularity. People like Vayne so they can go all God mode later, sadly what usually happens is they get bullied out of lane and fail to really make an impact later on.

    I think mastering Tristana is an excellent choice since you can use her so many different ways. Tank killer - Check. Fast push - Check. Elusive - Check. Its more just getting over her bad early/mid game which you can do if you know what you are doing on her. Only thing she lacks is poke, which is why I personally love Corki. Pokes hard from afar almost constantly, very safe, and can burst others down quickly when needed. But its his tank killing which is mediocre and needs to land skillshots
    Last edited by Jibjabb; 2015-10-07 at 06:55 PM.

  20. #20
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    Vayne is the best ADC ONLY if she have a strong initiator to force the fights.
    If you are playing the "poke" game she loses hard.
    But if you have a Leona or a Blitzcrank you have no choice but to fight...and fighting 1v1 VS a Vayne is impossible (2 possible 3 stealths + 10% true damage + true damage from BotrK)

    I personally think Vayne only loses with a strong "poke game". Otherwise she is the best duelist of ADC's.
    Ofcourse that Corki, Caitlyn, Jinx, Tristana are more powerfull in the "poke game" but if a fight starts with both partys at full health Vayne wins everytime.

    But only Doublelift, hi im Gosu ,Piglet, Uzi and Imp use her sometimes. Must be because of her poor range on teamfights/ laning phase.
    Very rarely seen on Worlds also.
    Last edited by mmocaf0660f03c; 2015-10-07 at 08:49 PM.

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