Parenting: Sugarcoating vs Cold Hard Truth

[Mustardisbad]

I never remember a time where I didn't know about death. Just straight up tell them the "cold hard truth", and it wouldn't hurt to tell them about what different people believe happens after death and to let them decide for themselves.

[Planeshaper]

Kids don't know to be afraid of death or spiders or clowns unless something tells them to be. You only need to calm them if you (or someone else) taught them to be afraid.

That's not entirely true. We're sentient creatures regardless of whether an adult informs us to be sentient.

We feel pain without the need of another human to tell us to feel it. We have an instinctual reaction to it, and very easily can develop our own fears purely based on our own experiences.

We're also sapient creatures, and without the need of adults can easily conduct the pattern analysis necessary to induce that our perceptions of other creatures dying can apply to ourselves.

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Some kids will be afraid without any adults to mimic, some will not. I don't think the nature of death should be lied about, but many children will absolutely need more comforting than others.

[apples]

That's not entirely true. We're sentient creatures regardless of whether an adult informs us to be sentient.

We feel pain without the need of another human to tell us to feel it. We have an instinctual reaction to it, and very easily can develop our own fears purely based on our own experiences.

We're also sapient creatures, and without the need of adults can easily conduct the pattern analysis necessary to induce that our perceptions of other creatures dying can apply to ourselves.

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Some kids will be afraid without any adults to mimic, some will not. I don't think the nature of death should be lied about, but many children will absolutely need more comforting than others.

also untrue.

when abandoned the human body shuts down for no other reason than its alone. when young that means they die, when older that means they get restless as the need is warped into a sense of "purpose".

theres not much lit on the subject because you cant ethically, nowadays anyway, keep contact away from people, but what lit there is suggests that without societal structure humans shut down, they dont figure out things on their own.

[Primalthirst]

I shouldn't have used spiders as an example, that was an error on my part. That is a rational fear that evolution has taught us to respect, unlike clowns or going outside.

For the record, I wasn't arguing that fear of death doesn't exist, I was arguing that if children don't witness others losing their shit over it, then they don't learn to lose their shit over it. They might still have the normal, healthy fear of the unknown, but not an irrational, unhealthy fear.

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also untrue.

when abandoned the human body shuts down for no other reason than its alone. when young that means they die, when older that means they get restless as the need is warped into a sense of "purpose".

theres not much lit on the subject because you cant ethically, nowadays anyway, keep contact away from people, but what lit there is suggests that without societal structure humans shut down, they dont figure out things on their own.

I'm sure there's been studies done on these sorts of topics with Chimpanzees. I'd love to read about them.

There was an intriguing study done in the early 20th century where a couple raised a baby chimp alongside their son with the hope he'd learn english and become civilised. In the end the wife forced her husband to abandon the experiment when their son started speaking chimp. I think it'd be fascinating to see the results of an adult human who was raised by chimps and could effectively communicate their state of mind to humanity.

[Deianeira]

not true.

humans do have innate fears embedded in genetics.

heights, spiders, snakes, etc

Then how come not all people are afraid of heights, spiders and whatnot?

[apples]

I shouldn't have used spiders as an example, that was an error on my part. That is a rational fear that evolution has taught us to respect, unlike clowns or going outside.

For the record, I wasn't arguing that fear of death doesn't exist, I was arguing that if children don't witness others losing their shit over it, then they don't learn to lose their shit over it. They might still have the normal, healthy fear of the unknown, but not an irrational, unhealthy fear.

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I'm sure there's been studies done on these sorts of topics with Chimpanzees. I'd love to read about them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harlow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

the gist courtesy psych 201

[Primalthirst]

Then how come not all people are afraid of heights, spiders and whatnot?

Almost everyone has a reasonable level of innate caution around certain things such as heights and spiders etc. Some people just take it too far, to the extent we would call a "fear of x".

I'm not afraid of heights, but I'm still cautious around them.

[apples]

Then how come not all people are afraid of heights, spiders and whatnot?

assuming you believe that fears are genetic, the science is still new

the same reason not all people have red hair, dark skin, etc

its genetic.

not all tribes had spiders, snakes, heights so not all tribes feared them

[Super Kami Dende]

You can teach truthful life lessons without being a dick.

People that coddle their kids basically force the rest of society to deal with their bullshit until someone calls them on it and they get all offended and sad because they can't accept criticism as a person..

[Deianeira]

assuming you believe that fears are genetic, the science is still new

the same reason not all people have red hair, dark skin, etc

its genetic.

not all tribes had spiders, snakes, heights so not all tribes feared them

Yes i understand there is genetics involved. But even when you tell someone with for instance Arachnophobia that the spider you hold in the hand that it is completely harmless and that it is probably more "afraid" of you, they most of the times panic if you want them to touch it.

I can understand that for instance for someone that is deathly afraid for bees and wasps and the like if they are allergic to their stings. since that actually can cause death.

[Primalthirst]

Yes i understand there is genetics involved. But even when you tell someone with for instance Arachnophobia that the spider you hold in the hand that it is completely harmless and that it is probably more "afraid" of you, they most of the times panic if you want them to touch it.

I can understand that for instance for someone that is deathly afraid for bees and wasps and the like if they are allergic to their stings. since that actually can cause death.

That's the difference between a rational and an irrational fear. (sort of)

[apples]

Yes i understand there is genetics involved. But even when you tell someone with for instance Arachnophobia that the spider you hold in the hand that it is completely harmless and that it is probably more "afraid" of you, they most of the times panic if you want them to touch it.

I can understand that for instance for someone that is deathly afraid for bees and wasps and the like if they are allergic to their stings. since that actually can cause death.

A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.

courtesy google

an analogy may be overeating or overexercising

something that is typically healthy, fear, eating, exercising, taken to an extreme because of whatever reason leading to unhealthy behavior

[Sengiratolom]

When i was 4 i saw a truck drive over a dog infront of me, that occurrence gave me warning about how dangerous traffic is and that death exists. No explanation would have done better.

How and when to bring it depends on the child, but telling the truth is inevitable. Personally i disliked any sugarcoating that wasn't edible, even at young age, just tell me what is going on so i can deal with it, instead of telling me nonsense that i end up trying to make sense off.

[Planeshaper]

also untrue.

I believe you misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying that humans could survive without other humans. I was saying that we don't have constant need of other humans to mimic. We're sentient and sapient, individually so. An adult doesn't need to inform us to feel pain. We can do so on our own.

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In any case, we can easily test the natural development of fears on other animals. And have with lab raised monkeys and various other experiments.

While a lab-raised monkey is not innately afraid of snakes, for instance, they will develop that fear more quickly than a fear of, say, flowers. And they can develop that fear without actually mimicking something else that is afraid of the snake. They will develop that fear purely through their own experiences (for instance, by being shown pictures of both snakes and flowers accompanied with electric shocks).

[breadisfunny]

whatever my wife wants to do

im not picking a fight with her

i'm the kind of person who will pick a fight over the most trivial problem. not sure i would be good husband material.

[Primalthirst]

i'm the kind of person who will pick a fight over the most trivial problem. not sure i would be good husband material.

I feel like anyone who frequents internet forums is the type of person who likes to fight over trivial issues!
I know I sure do! A good argument is better than sex.

[Deleted]

I feel like anyone who frequents internet forums is the type of person who likes to fight over trivial issues!
I know I sure do! A good argument is better than sex.

There aren't allot of debaters standing around the highway waiting to get into a car for a quick argument.

[minteK917]

I would be fearful of those who don't believe in an after life explaining death to their kids. I do believe in an after life, and even then, I sometimes get anxiety over death and the unknown. Just imagine a kid fearing about it. Even if someone doesn't believe in an after life, they should at the very least tell their kids is one as a way to calm their fears. Then tell them their true opinions on death later on, when they can decide on their own what to believe concerning it.

I do not feel fear of death and i dont believe in the afterlife. My kids arent afraid of dying either, both were curious about what happened to my grand parents once they past away. They only expressed sadness when i mentioned me and their mother would die as well. Which is logical i had the same reaction when my mother explained death to me. Afterlife is a religious thing, they can decide that on their own, it is not part of death. Plus explaining to them religion is a topic one of them asked a little bit later.

[Independent voter]

Fortunately atheists don't have a lot of kids.

[Deleted]

When my cat died, my 6 year old niece wanted to know where he'd gone. I told her he was old, and all old things eventually die, even us one day. She said "I'll miss him though" and carried on playing after I assured her that it's OK because we still have pictures of the cat to remember him. I don't see any point in giving her specifics or creating an existential crisis. She's accepted the explanation that it's inevitable for things to die, and that they eventually go away. I'm not a Christian, but maybe if she'd pressed me more I would have said he was in cat heaven or something.