Your preferred end of expasion final raid nerf

[Deleted]

Definitely MoP's version. It was entirely on the players themselves and made you feel a bit more involved in the process. I actually thought TBC/WoTLK/CATA form of nerfs were by far the worst. Any flat % nerf/buffs are pretty bad I feel. 5% is a big number to throw around.

[Krazzorx]

Anyone know how much the ring upgrades have nerfed HFC by now? Has it reached the equivelant of 8 ilvls from SoO?

[Deleted]

Does it matter? They'll nerf it, whatever version the nerfbat gets.


Also MoP did not just nerf it. It obliterated hard mode to the level of normal mode or only slightly harder with 6.0. What a terrible patch, it also butchered disc priest.

[Battlebeard]

Progressive Nerf or Progressive Buff. Harder at first, for realm, world first etc etc. Then slowly allowing more guilds and even pugs to get the kills. By TIME and nothing a player can do to speed it up!

[beelgers]

Does it matter? They'll nerf it, whatever version the nerfbat gets.


Also MoP did not just nerf it. It obliterated hard mode to the level of normal mode or only slightly harder with 6.0. What a terrible patch, it also butchered disc priest.

I wouldn't count what happens once the pre-patch hits. Everything is pretty invalid at that point since it's all geared toward the next expansion.

As for disc priests in 6.0, if I recall correctly, you could just heal the raid by spamming nova at that point lol....

As for my preference either Wrath or MoP. Probably like the Wrath model the best, but the MoP model at least rewarded getting better gear and then upgrading it.

[anaxie]

None because it creates a false sense of accomplishment and the late bloomers get curbstomped the start of next expansion and are bewildered why its so hard because the are all stars.

[MrExcelion]

I'd prefer no questline at all, but I'm a fan of how the ring has played out. Would be a shame for guilds to stop doing Heroic Archimonde. Also been great for pugging it on Tuesdays.

[Kuruption]

I like the ilvl buff more than the progressive, just because I was in a guild that wouldn't bother with some of the later DS bosses because "we probably don't have the dps to kill it now, but in a week when 15% rolls around, we will!"

I can see pros and cons for both, but I just liked the ilvl buff more.

None because it creates a false sense of accomplishment and the late bloomers get curbstomped the start of next expansion and are bewildered why its so hard because the are all stars.

I mean, most people have the common sense to realize they beat a nerfed version of the fight, but it is always funny when there were posts saying "HEY I'M A KINGSLAYER, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO BEAT MAGMAW EASILY".

I miss those days.

[dexx]

The difference to performance that having some specific gear makes is way over the top this tier. Someone with legendary ring, 4 piece tier, and class trinket will do a ridiculous amount better than someone without. Having those things shouldnt be considered the end-of-expansion nerf because not all that many people have them.

[Deleted]

As for disc priests in 6.0, if I recall correctly, you could just heal the raid by spamming nova at that point lol....

Yes. And is that good? I topped the meters with normal gear, on my first join with a hard mode guild and we even cleared it almost one shot.

I don't get why people think their broken class is good just because it does good numbers.

6.0 Made disc a clunky and boring spec.

[Deleted]

I liked the progressive nerf every month or so much better than the ilvl upgrades or ring upgrades.

I'm a bit in between honestly. Personally, I did like the WotLK/Cataclysm application, but I felt like it was a bit too quick. I remember getting Putri25hc on 10%, but we could've gotten him on 5% as well. Still, its a fair method although it does affect guilds who raid very little and still want to progress on hard fights and beat them skillwise, not timewise. And no, adding a switch (DS) isn't a fun way to keep it.
The ring is really a more natural way of doing it. I'm not opposed to it, but I think I prefer the Cata way in the end. Lorewise the WotLK style would be better, but gameplaywise I prefer Cata as you don't inflate your numbers even more.

TBC was the worst though. I remember that defeated feeling of the patchday, just barely missed killing M'uru (1% Entropius </3) and then one-shotting it and Kil'jaeden the day of the patch. Not only did they nerf them by 30%, the dps specs were also so much stronger that it just became a complete face roll

[chibichibiko]

MoP's ilvl buff was the best for me...buffing gear is a nerf to everything, not just the most recent raid.

Technically, the current model also has the 'farm the crap out of it for warforged+bonus socket' power boosts.

[bmjclark]

I really liked the ilvl upgrades they did in mop. You worked for it so it felt like you were accomplishing something and it didn't feel like some way to nerf the raids, just a way to progress your character.

[Spotnick]

The Cata one was seriously ridiculous because it started way too soon and it went too fast for the length of the tier, and since the raid was only 8 bosses, it prematurely ended content too fast.

It also had the very big issue of creating expectations among people not skilled enough to do heroic raiding back then that they could, and they got hit by a wall at the start of MOP.

Which obviously was also an issue when we went from nerfed-ICC to very hardcore Blackrock Descent with unforgiving raid mechanics.

But now that we have 4 difficulties, there really isn't a reason to nerf the instances.

I do expect them to nerf Gorefiend on mythic, but not really sure the rest needs it.. not everybody should be able to defeat the content.

Personally the zone buff is fine, but you should not get the achievements unless you turn it off. There should be incentives to turn the buff off, otherwise there really is no point to it.

[Toijin]

All of it combined into one + the 7.0 class change/stat changes nerfs.

[Detritivores]

Cataclysm progressive nerf was my preferred solution. The other notable thing about cataclysm was that the prepatch (5.0) didn't completely annihilate the raid instance like they did with SoO. All solutions that involved increasing player power in one way or another only contributed to the number inflation and muddied the water in terms of evaluating logs and performance in addition to making alts an incredible pain. The upgrade system in SoO was asinine. In no world should hours and hours of grinding frogs be the optimal way to make the raid content easier. The ring upgrades in WoD are a better version of that system but not nearly adequate for the teams that will be "progressing" in mythic in the coming months. Cata progressive nerf system #1.

Alternatively, we could stop having year long end tiers and just do the generic 20% nerf when the next tier comes out. But as long as the content has to last this long, they have to keep making it increasingly accessible.

- - - Updated - - -

None because it creates a false sense of accomplishment and the late bloomers get curbstomped the start of next expansion and are bewildered why its so hard because the are all stars.

I think that's their problem though. If they don't have the aptitude to realize they're killing incredibly nerfed content, then that's on them. It's the right decision for Blizz to increase accessibility over the course of a 9-14 month tier. People just need to fire up their brain cells and realize that downing Garrosh during 6.0 doesn't make them a "mythic guild."

[Alvito]

cataclysm nerf over time was the best imo but thats just me.

That sucked, it made it boring as hell for the ppl that actually killed things at even a modest pace. So many 8/8 DS heroic groups. I know on my server guilds with zero FL heroics ended up 8/8 in DS due to the way they did the raid. Same roster, it isn't like 10 to 25 ppl just got better.

[kamuimac]

The difference to performance that having some specific gear makes is way over the top this tier. Someone with legendary ring, 4 piece tier, and class trinket will do a ridiculous amount better than someone without. Having those things shouldnt be considered the end-of-expansion nerf because not all that many people have them.

you have to consider also how this have effect on people who dont have 4 sets class trinekts and super upgraded rings- number bloat is absolutely abbysmal this tier if you compare numbers done by someone freshly out of tannan in 695 itlv and someone in 715 itlv with 4 set trinkets and ring - its just riduculous at this point.

[Manstus]

For me, I liked the "nerfed by gearing" approach, and chose the MoP approach, though I dislike the WoD approach despite being almost the same. I dislike the ring as a legendary in general, and as such, it might sour my perspective, even though it's ostensibly the same thing.

I liked the MoP approach because it required buy-in; it required the players to earn the nerf. You still had to put in the time to grind valor points, and get gear that was worth upgrading. People still had to show up to do so. In the previous iterations, the raid just got easier with no input or impact from the players. With the ring, you only need to show up for one hour a week and do a normal kill which can be pugged now. It's isolated to that one item. With the MoP system, you could still skip raid and grind out dungeons for example, but doing so meant you weren't going to get heroic warforged pieces worth upgrading and as such, the process on a whole, was much more reliant on a players dedication, which I favour.

[anaxie]

The ring rapes any chance if someone wants to come back with its upgrade design. But its smart takes 20 weeks to fully upgrade from 735. That carrot on a stick weekly.