"We support the right to freedom of conscience", Abortion in Sweden

[Deleted]

If someone is that determined to take a life rather then put it up for adoption am I supposed to be moved by their plight?

You conveniently ignore the fact that the woman is pregnant for quite some time before here's a kid to put up for adoption. I sure as hell wouldn't go through a pregnancy to later put it up for adoption and most women here feel that way.

[Deleted]

Well, abortion isn't something you just 'happen' to get taught along the lines of general practice. It's something a very particular type of doctor does, like any and all medical procedures. If anything it's the assistant in the act which hasn't gone through the lengthy preparation required to lead the procedure which would be susceptible to 'moral misgivings' as it pertains to the work they do.

However, working at a gynecologist's surgery should pretty much mean that you've understood the acts you will be expected to partake in. Termination of the clump of amino-acids/proteins before it acquires the necessary brain cells to garner consciousness is among the tasks that is offered within the timeframe that secular society has defined.

In short, if you in your core beliefs truly do believe that a fetus is bequeathed an immortal soul or a special other-hood upon the point of conception, you probably should -not- take employ in places where abortion is performed.

[primalmatter]

You conveniently ignore the fact that the woman is pregnant for quite some time before here's a kid to put up for adoption. I sure as hell wouldn't go through a pregnancy to later put it up for adoption and most women here feel that way.

That is fine. I just don't feel you have a right to force someone into unwilling killing your child is all.

[Deleted]

Well, abortion isn't something you just 'happen' to get taught along the lines of general practice. It's something a very particular type of doctor does, like any and all medical procedures. If anything it's the assistant in the act which hasn't gone through the lengthy preparation required to lead the procedure which would be susceptible to 'moral misgivings' as it pertains to the work they do.

Midwives performs/takes part abortions here as well.

[Azadina]

Why is it also a religious thing? Some people see abortion as murder and to be honest when you get down to the ugly truth of it... well it is. If they did not get the procedure a child would be born.

For one thing, how about it's not. Second, how many doctors are seriously ignorant enough to think they'll never have to do something they don't like? Unless you specialize into something very specific?

[primalmatter]

Well, abortion isn't something you just 'happen' to get taught along the lines of general practice. It's something a very particular type of doctor does, like any and all medical procedures. If anything it's the assistant in the act which hasn't gone through the lengthy preparation required to lead the procedure which would be susceptible to 'moral misgivings' as it pertains to the work they do.

However, working at a gynecologist's surgery should pretty much mean that you've understood the acts you will be expected to partake in. Termination of the clump of amino-acids/proteins before it acquires the necessary brain cells to garner consciousness is among the tasks that is offered within the timeframe that secular society has defined.

In short, if you in your core beliefs truly do believe that a fetus is bequeathed an immortal soul or a special other-hood upon the point of conception, you probably should -not- take employ in places where abortion is performed.

While this is true I can see the frustration abortion itself can be a life saving procedure for the mother and it needs to be taught. I just think that unless the mother is at risk it should be something a doctor is forced to partake in.

[Haibara]

I didn't think there were any religious people left in Sweden. Is this aimed at the refugees? If someone thinks they are killing a baby, it's pretty hard to ask them to do so. Accommodate the religious just like you accommodate any minority.

The Swedish religious party got 4.7% of the votes in 2012, no one who doesn't want to impose a very small minority's beliefs on others would vote for them.(Based on their election manifesto. Forced sterilization of transsexuals and so forth. Homo couples being declined adoption.) So it's safe to say the majority of the voters are either religious, unaware or spiteful against minorities. So yes there are Religious people in Sweden.

[Templar 331]

In this case it very might well not be their job. We are talking about a hospital not a abortion clinic these doctors did not sign up for this work so why can they not refuse it?

If they're not willing to perform all aspects of their job then they shouldn't be surprised when they are fired for not performing it. There are aspects of my job that I see no reason why I should have to do them but I do them anyway.

Why is it also a religious thing? Some people see abortion as murder and to be honest when you get down to the ugly truth of it... well it is. If they did not get the procedure a child would be born.

Then those people shouldn't have been doctors knowing good and well they might have to perform this procedure.

If someone is that determined to take a life rather then put it up for adoption am I supposed to be moved by their plight?

You don't seem to understand the reasoning behind the woman wanting the abortion. She's not wanting to take a life like you're implying. She's wanting a quick and safe fix for a mistake she made. Bringing a life into this world just to give it away? Something like that will haunt a person, both mother and child. I've grown up with a girl who was abandoned by her mother as a baby. It's not a good thing. Aborting a fetus long before it could become a life is the easier path.

[primalmatter]

For one thing, how about it's not. Second, how many doctors are seriously ignorant enough to think they'll never have to do something they don't like? Unless you specialize into something very specific?

So you are saying they should of expected that they would one day have to kill someone because some else was inconvenienced...

You keep trying to make grand standing point but you are really bad at it.

[Deleted]

Rejected.

At first I thought it was the christian democratic party suggesting this, but it's just some old school pastors that came up with the suggestion / petition.

Their new leader supports(http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article20690230.ab) this kind of thing though, she belongs to the ones who are more socially conservative in the party.

[Azadina]

So you are saying they should of expected that they would one day have to kill someone because some else was inconvenienced...

You keep trying to make grand standing point but you are really bad at it.

Yeah, so it seems. I can't think of a way to put my thoughts into words, in a way you would understand it. Especially since you seem set at "abortion is evil murder, and doctors should be able to refuse to do their jobs because of this"

[Vyxn]

Typical stunted conservative logic: harm as many people as possible because "fairytales."

Wish these people would remove themselves from society. Tired of the damage they gleefully cause.

who says you have to be religious to believe abortion is wrong some believe abortion is wrong because they believe the unborn indeed are alive individual humans that meet all scientific criteria to be considered just that there for deserves at least the basic human rights as any other human

[primalmatter]

If they're not willing to perform all aspects of their job then they shouldn't be surprised when they are fired for not performing it. There are aspects of my job that I see no reason why I should have to do them but I do them anyway.



Then those people shouldn't have been doctors knowing good and well they might have to perform this procedure.



You don't seem to understand the reasoning behind the woman wanting the abortion. She's not wanting to take a life like you're implying. She's wanting a quick and safe fix for a mistake she made. Bringing a life into this world just to give it away? Something like that will haunt a person, both mother and child. I've grown up with a girl who was abandoned by her mother as a baby. It's not a good thing. Aborting a fetus long before it could become a life is the easier path.

Of course they can be fired. They won't be of course since only a hospital that lost its mind would do so.

I think it is wrong to force a person to perform a unnecessary procedure that ends with a death. If people are willing to do it that is fine but I cannot see the legal or even moral justification of forcing someone to.

[Deleted]

Of course they can be fired. They won't be of course since only a hospital that lost its mind would do so.

http://www.thelocal.se/20140711/anti...-case-to-court

Okay.

[primalmatter]

Yeah, so it seems. I can't think of a way to put my thoughts into words, in a way you would understand it. Especially since you seem set at "abortion is evil murder, and doctors should be able to refuse to do their jobs because of this"

It's killing a person. I can understand not wanting to do that if you are a doctor. I don't believe the act of murder is evil in itself served to long to believe that but you should never try to soften what it is you are doing. I believe a doctor should be able to say "no I don't want to kill a child"

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.thelocal.se/20140711/anti...-case-to-court

Okay.

We are not pretending midwives are doctors now are we?

[Azadina]

Of course they can be fired. They won't be of course since only a hospital that lost its mind would do so.

I think it is wrong to force a person to perform a unnecessary procedure that ends with a death. If people are willing to do it that is fine but I cannot see the legal or even moral justification of forcing someone to.

Maybe unnecessary according to you. It's funny how pro-lifers, like I'm going to assume you are, don't give a damn what happens to the child after it's born. Neither do you give a damn about the mother, and just keep thinking pregnancy is no big deal at all.

[Deleted]

We are not pretending midwives are doctors now are we?

Midwives performs abortions in Sweden. Doctors could lose their jobs as well, if they refuse to perform part of their job.

[Acidbaron]

Religion of this nature has no room, if people do no like to perform certain medical procedures as it conflict with their interest they can hand in their medical licence.

The step of taken an abortion is often not an easy one a couple or woman makes, having a doctor refusing access could lead to the birth of an unwanted child, it can also mean that certain doctors are going to strong arm couples into getting a child what can lead to them having a child with serious disabilities and all serious consequences.
The choice of the procedure is on the side of the woman, the doctor in question may only object if there is a medical reason for not doing it, morality does not play a role. I also find this sets a very dangerous precedent, the last time we let the church intervene regarding child birth we had the major crises all over europe where children were sold in the name of the lord since the mother wasn't seen fit by mother superior.

Let's not set up a platform for another christian inspired social monstrosity.

If a Muslim would refuse care to their wife due to there being no female doctors around everyone would be up in arms, for me this is the exact same thing.

[bloodmoth13]

I support this wholeheartedly, nobody should be forced to do something against their ethics, thats fucking fascism! i find it ironic that liberals insist on fascist policies.

The doctor doesnt obstruct you, but refuses you a service based on the content of the service, you act like they are your fucking slave.

If they refuse, find another, if nobody accepts, then its an unpopular procedure that could have adverse effects on the doctor performing the duty.

This neo liberalism is getting pretty fucking stupid, would you really rather that these qualified doctors lost their right to practice medicine for not bowing to your demands? which could fuck over other patients in need of a doctor? seriously? get real mate, not everyone supports your agenda and they dont need to! forcing others to is ignorance and fascism

If you dont want a baby, try not getting pregnant in the first place and take some fucking responsibility

[primalmatter]

Maybe unnecessary according to you. It's funny how pro-lifers, like I'm going to assume you are, don't give a damn what happens to the child after it's born. Neither do you give a damn about the mother, and just keep thinking pregnancy is no big deal at all.

I never knew my birth parents. I would rather not of been killed in the womb myself

- - - Updated - - -

Midwives performs abortions in Sweden. Doctors could lose their jobs as well, if they refuse to perform part of their job.

Never said they didn't and they could lose their jobs just as they could win the lottery it isn't likely though.