Changing minds with logic?

[PC2]

Acquire the knowledge and skills to control your own destiny. Other people's logic is not oppressing you.

[dextersmith]

Some people won't charge their minds no matter what - religion.

What's logical here? Save your child or 20 other children?

[ItachiZaku]

I changed my mind with logic maybe a month ago? I can't remember the argument, and I was leaning one way and then things were pointed out that I hadn't considered, so I went from "leaning X to firmly Y" but I will admit that I'm usually hot button emo on some topics.

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What's logical here? Save your child or 20 other children?

I always need more information in a situation like this.

[darkmankill1]

Acquire the knowledge and skills to control your own destiny. Other people's logic is not oppressing you.

Don't make me laugh, this entire world is based on other people's logic. My mind was filled with YOUR logic. Not much of my mind is... mine... and it scares me that nobody realises this. You weren't born praising god, you weren't born speaking english, you weren't born with killer motives nor good intentions.

What people gave me became me and everything around me controls my destiny to the very letter.

DO NOT FORGET.

[zenkai]

Now granted, for the PhD's out there this isn't much of a discussion. Let's ignore the right and left side of the Bell Curve and focus on the meat in the middle. Do you believe it's really possible to change the minds or beliefs of the average with Logic?

I believe it is highly unlikely. People too often seem swayed or convinced by emotion rather than Logic. In the USA our entire political process and governing body seems to run primarily on emotion placation. I'm not sure even with arbitrary anecdotal thoughts I could point to any decision being made though Logical and Critical thinking anymore (yes this is an exaggeration to stress a point.) So I'm left with the belief that it's arguably better to play dirty than to play smart.

Yes no maybe?

A lot of people think with emotion and not logic, people who think with logic will change their minds based on new evidence, people who think with emotion do it the same way but by emotions. Emotional voters scare me the most as they are easily fooled and cling to their ignorance.

[Deleted]

Some people won't charge their minds no matter what - religion.

What's logical here? Save your child or 20 other children?

My own child, because I care more about my own child than 20 other.

[Alydael]

I think it has been proven, over and over- that minds will not change based on logic. People chose a position and stick with it, often in the face of overwhelming odds.

I think that it is because they chose a position based on what resonates with them personally. The position then becomes a "proxy" for who they are. When you attack the position (even with logic), they view it as a personal attack (which takes logic out of the equation and makes it personal). Good luck with that......

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My own child, because I care more about my own child than 20 other.

I agree 100% You can postulate these imaginary situations, but when you see your own child at risk- the parental instinct will kick in and you will save your child at any cost (even if it is your own life). I would lay down my life for my daughters without a second thought.

[Deleted]

I agree 100% You can postulate these imaginary situations, but when you see your own child at risk- the parental instinct will kick in and you will save your child at any cost (even if it is your own life). I would lay down my life for my daughters without a second thought.

It's not only that. It's logical to save what you care about the most.

[unbound]

Now granted, for the PhD's out there this isn't much of a discussion. Let's ignore the right and left side of the Bell Curve and focus on the meat in the middle. Do you believe it's really possible to change the minds or beliefs of the average with Logic?

I believe it is highly unlikely. People too often seem swayed or convinced by emotion rather than Logic. In the USA our entire political process and governing body seems to run primarily on emotion placation. I'm not sure even with arbitrary anecdotal thoughts I could point to any decision being made though Logical and Critical thinking anymore (yes this is an exaggeration to stress a point.) So I'm left with the belief that it's arguably better to play dirty than to play smart.

Yes no maybe?

It is possible to change minds with logic provided that the person you are talking to doesn't have a strong opinion / bias. This is the primary reason it is easier to educate kids than it is to educate adults. Kids typically haven't formed a biased opinion, so logic will win out. As people get older, they start to develop bias, and it is hard as hell to get them to recognize that they may not be on the side of logic or even truth.

And this remains true for the intelligent / PhDs as well. It is harder to argue with them because they are much better at heavily rationalizing, and they are no different than the average person when it comes to deeply held bias.

[zenkai]

I think it has been proven, over and over- that minds will not change based on logic. People chose a position and stick with it, often in the face of overwhelming odds.

I think that it is because they chose a position based on what resonates with them personally. The position then becomes a "proxy" for who they are. When you attack the position (even with logic), they view it as a personal attack (which takes logic out of the equation and makes it personal). Good luck with that......

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I agree 100% You can postulate these imaginary situations, but when you see your own child at risk- the parental instinct will kick in and you will save your child at any cost (even if it is your own life). I would lay down my life for my daughters without a second thought.

Well that's not true at all, my opinions grow when my knowledge of said subject grows. there are many things I have changed my opinions on vs what I believed 20 years ago. Only fools would operate in such a way, and I agree there are plenty of them to make you think this is the norm.

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It is possible to change minds with logic provided that the person you are talking to doesn't have a strong opinion / bias. This is the primary reason it is easier to educate kids than it is to educate adults. Kids typically haven't formed a biased opinion, so logic will win out. As people get older, they start to develop bias, and it is hard as hell to get them to recognize that they may not be on the side of logic or even truth.

And this remains true for the intelligent / PhDs as well. It is harder to argue with them because they are much better at heavily rationalizing, and they are no different than the average person when it comes to deeply held bias.

Yup, no matter what you believe there is always a counter argument.

[Soikona]

The best way to change someones mind from my experience is to make them think it was their idea.

I am ashamed to admit it, but I have done it many of times with my fiancee. I would say something like "it would be nice to have/do <insert something>" every so often for about a month (not too often) and about a month or two down the line she would think it is her idea. It is manipulation at its finest, but straight up arguing with someone has never worked (well I have never changed my view or convinced someone other wise by straight up arguing).

[Dezerte]

I think the most effective way of making somebody else see things your way is to argue emphatically. The tone of your demeanor is much more important than the logical or emotional part in that sense.