1. #1
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    Mannoroth Mythic. Arcane VS Frost

    My guild just recently started progressing on Mannoroth mythic. We use a 3 mage setup for soaking the Wrath of Gul'Dan. Us three mages are all specced into arcane. But I see alot of other guild their mages are going frost on this fight. So to my question which one is the "better" spec for the fight? Or is it just personal preferens? I can see why frost can be better, there is nearly always a target to cleave on (expect the last phase), you got more movement with the instant procs you can cast.
    But Arcane got a better burst in the last phase.
    Is not that we need damage on the imps we got 2 Demo locks handling them.

  2. #2
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    First question: Where is my raid struggling? Adds->Go frost, last phase burn->Go Arcane
    If equal:
    Second question: Which spec can i play more stable on a relativly fresh encounter->take that
    There is no clear answer. If u want a toplog try arcane and pray. If u want consistent topdmg take frost. If u want to help your guild decide on whats needed.
    Also remeber as arcane u want a steady flow of the fight and no fuck up while ur burn is running.
    Last edited by mmoce8ebae9270; 2015-10-13 at 02:56 PM.

  3. #3
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    The impression I'm getting is that most that get frost on it do it because it's an unpredictable fight and arcane doesn't like that.


    Most good Arcane parses appear to rely on doom nova (again, xhul deja vu).

    Hrm, weirdly, the arcane orb proves bad again.



    Unless, its indirect benefits make up for it. But good luck simming that fight.
    Last edited by mmocdc260e8e2a; 2015-10-13 at 12:57 PM.

  4. #4
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    Though there ain't much logs, fire is also viable in this fight (specially if you don't have demo warlocks for imps). The 3 specs are ok, go for whatever you prefer. The advantage of Frost is that is the spec with less rng involve (you will see top arcane parses due to doom nova and fire spec well, is fire)

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Thanks for all the quick replies. It was my impression as well it is up to personal preference! I will do some more testing on the fight, but thanks for your thoughts!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    The impression I'm getting is that most that get frost on it do it because it's an unpredictable fight and arcane doesn't like that.


    Most good Arcane parses appear to rely on doom nova (again, xhul deja vu).

    Hrm, weirdly, the arcane orb proves bad again.



    Unless, its indirect benefits make up for it. But good luck simming that fight.
    Parses? Who the hell cares about parses when they are deciding what to play? All top 100 is about luck and everybody who plays mage for some time must know what to play in ther specific raid setup. On Manoroth you can play all 3 spec and be usefull - just play what your raid needs and what you can play best.

  7. #7
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    We are currently progressing and use 1-3 mages, and so far all of use have stick to arcane as we have demo locks to take care of the imps. Supernova is superhandy though for the extra CC. So far, the amount of cleaving actually seems rather limited, and with the imp timers fitting exactly on the refresh of supernova you have the on-demand burst as well.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetesh View Post
    All top 100 is about luck

    I wouldn't say that. At least in some fights there are good logs on the top, even if not all. Also even the information that doom luck is so important is not bad to be known.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster Rinoa's Avatar
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    You need to go much higher than just top 100 for it to be pure luck amongst good players in good gear. Mythic Mannoroth also isn't particularly unpredictable, I think. The fight follows a very firm pattern, the only unpredictability is messing up the execution - something that only favours Frost in the sense that it's more mobile so you can correct positional mistakes at a lower cost.
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  10. #10
    I'd say Frost has a pretty big advantage with consistency here. A lot of high parses are arcane, but the majority are with great doom nova or 4p RNG. (or both)

    Frost offers good single target and cleave damage, which is good for infernals and doom lord. Ever since the "chaining" change, splitting ice also has a ridiculous range on big bosses, like manno, and will hit infernals that are pretty far away, or hit the boss while you're targetting infernals. Frost also does good damage (once again consistent) to imps, with orb + double IN.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naedrim View Post
    the "chaining" change

    Got a URL of that news? Or another reference to google.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    Got a URL of that news? Or another reference to google.
    Don't feel like finding the patch notes but it's the patch that also caused hunter's chimaera to cleave from Gorefiend to the trapped souls on mythic. This was at least a couple months into the tier so it was quite a while ago now.

  13. #13
    It mostly stemmed from Archi complaints that Frost wasn't cleaving onto Doomfire Spirits despite them being practically on top of him

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    Got a URL of that news? Or another reference to google.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/179...2-24-2015#mage

    at least, I think that is what he meant: the extra range on splitting ice glyph.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by patcherke View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/179...2-24-2015#mage

    at least, I think that is what he meant: the extra range on splitting ice glyph.
    There was a separate change earlier this tier where they increased the range of mechanics that act like splitting ice in general. For example it also afffected MM hunter's chimaera shot.

    This is the reason hunter's chimaera cleaves onto people's souls on mythic gorefiend, but didn't cleave earlier in the tier.

    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    Got a URL of that news? Or another reference to google.
    Decided to go find the patch note.
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...fixes-july-13/

    "Fixed an issue where using chaining abilities against very large targets could cause the ability to not chain correctly to smaller targets."

    No google reference necessary
    Last edited by Naedrim; 2015-10-16 at 09:32 PM.

  16. #16
    I think Frost is better

  17. #17
    Fluffy Kitten Wilderness's Avatar
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    Overall dps on the fight as Arcane will vary depending on if you get PoF procs at the right times to hit imps and infernals, but even without that your damage as Arcane will be strong throughout the fight. In the last phase it is going to be better than Frost, and the shorter you make that phase the better off you're going to be.

    I could see both specs being useful though, initially I tried Frost but it was awkward and difficult to play while swapping targets to infernals and doom lords so I went Arcane. During progression we figured out that myself and a few other ranged don't really need to swap as much as we'd thought and I could see Frost playing more smoothly now, but I would still probably give Arcane the edge for the last phase damage.

  18. #18
    I would recommend speccing frost if u are progressing since it will provide very consistent dps numbers every pull, arcane dps fluctuation is way too big on every single pull. However supernova is really good for stopping the imps casting, if ur raid has serious trouble cc'ing the imps then spec arcane.

    of course if mark of doom procs everytime when infernals & imp spawns with u having arcane missiles procs, frost will not be able to compete but most of the time that is not the case.

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