Warcraft Logs owner asks what you'd like in a Warcraft Progress site.

[lappee]

While it is technically me deciding that, I'm not doing it on a whim. I start getting tons of complaints from users when a particular exploit reaches critical mass, so I think it's fair to say that there is community interest in being able to view the ranks without certain exploits in place.

And the point still is its not your place to call something "exploit". You do not determine whats exploit and whats not, thats Blizzards job.

Yes, its your site and you can do whatever you want but that just brings us back to my original statement that you're no better than Wowprogress when making bogus rules.

[Octa]

Back on topic for a progress site, how do people think credit to a guild should work? I personally think only kills you earn with a guild should count for a given tier, e.g., Method should remain on top forever at 13/13 for that tier, and Serenity should be ranked where-ever they would place when they first killed Archimonde as a guild. Do people agree with that? It just feels like once you get 13/13, you should be "frozen" and stay in the ranks, since that reflects the true race results.

Absolutely how it should work. The guys from Serenity didn't like the direction Method was going moving forward so they created a new guild. They didn't name change method, they didn't absorb another guild into Method, they broke off and formed a completely new guild. Method still holds world first Archimonde even if a bunch of the players left and formed a new guild, Serenity the GUILD did not earn that. As long as Blizzard doesn't strip a guilds achievement because they exploited/cheated/hacked/whatever that guild should never lose their ranking even if all the members leave. If Method had disbanded and the raiders all went to different guilds Method still killed Archimonde first and that should be "frozen in time".

[femur68]

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Back on topic for a progress site, how do people think credit to a guild should work? I personally think only kills you earn with a guild should count for a given tier, e.g., Method should remain on top forever at 13/13 for that tier, and Serenity should be ranked where-ever they would place when they first killed Archimonde as a guild. Do people agree with that? It just feels like once you get 13/13, you should be "frozen" and stay in the ranks, since that reflects the true race results.

I concur, this is exactly how it should work.

[Kihra]

And the point still is its not your place to call something "exploit". You do not determine whats exploit and whats not, thats Blizzards job.

Yes, its your site and you can do whatever you want but that just brings us back to my original statement that you're no better than Wowprogress when making bogus rules.

If they stay in the ranks, isn't that sufficient? It's simply a fact that more users of my site believe that gear swapping and double rings is an exploit. That you do not is fine. I understand and respect your position. However, you should try and understand that most players look at that and think it's an exploit and really want the option to exclude these parses from rankings. That's why I got so many complaints when these parses started showing up in the ranks.

I don't think my answer to those people, who constitute the majority, should be "Tough, Blizzard won't fix it, so I'm just going to ignore it." I understand that this is your position, but you're in the minority. Hence my desire to come up with a solution that pleases everybody.

[lappee]

If they stay in the ranks, isn't that sufficient? It's simply a fact that more users of my site believe that gear swapping and double rings is an exploit. That you do not is fine. I understand and respect your position. However, you should try and understand that most players look at that and think it's an exploit and really want the option to exclude these parses from rankings. That's why I got so many complaints when these parses started showing up in the ranks.

I don't think my answer to those people, who constitute the majority, should be "Tough, Blizzard won't fix it, so I'm just going to ignore it." I understand that this is your position, but you're in the minority. Hence my desire to come up with a solution that pleases everybody.

Its better than what currently is for sure, its not what I'd like it to be.

I respect other peoples position, but that doesnt mean I should give up on my quest for a better system (in my opinion).

[Deleted]

It is a Happening?

[Halbrium]

It is a Happening?

Answer

[jMerliN]

Its better than what currently is for sure, its not what I'd like it to be.

I respect other peoples position, but that doesnt mean I should give up on my quest for a better system (in my opinion).

Why don't we build it then, if neither WCL nor wowprogress do the right things?

[Kihra]

Its better than what currently is for sure, its not what I'd like it to be.

I respect other peoples position, but that doesnt mean I should give up on my quest for a better system (in my opinion).

Well, I don't have to use the term "exploit" when flagging these ranks. There is probably some terminology that I could come up with that doesn't have as negative a connotation. Really what these would be are ranks that are using a trick that is likely to be hotfixed, so maybe there's a way to express that so that it's more palatable.

If no negative terminology like "exploit" is used, but the ranks are marked in some way that indicates they could be removed if a hotfix happens, is that really so objectionable?

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This has been implemented now by the way. Double rings and trinkets will now be allowed to rank, but the rank will show up with a dark gold background. You can either choose to interpret the yellow-ish color as a "warning" or as a "gold medal" depending on which camp you fall into.

[arr0gance]

What an appropriate nickname. In case you haven't noticed, not everyone is you. Not everyone knows what you know.

The information gleamed from your incredibly helpful post could have been ascertained by anybody with the keen ability to read signatures.

[Deleted]

The information gleamed from your incredibly helpful post could have been ascertained by anybody with the keen ability to read signatures.

This forum is not made for you only.

[lappee]

If no negative terminology like "exploit" is used, but the ranks are marked in some way that indicates they could be removed if a hotfix happens, is that really so objectionable?

Definitely a way better system, one that I can happily accept and live with.

Now, if you can make such a system for progression tracking then you have my full support. Telling people theres shady stuff going on is fine as long as you dont straight out blacklist their ranking.

[Octa]

This has been implemented now by the way. Double rings and trinkets will now be allowed to rank, but the rank will show up with a dark gold background. You can either choose to interpret the yellow-ish color as a "warning" or as a "gold medal" depending on which camp you fall into.

Seems like you've stuck a pretty happy medium with this, I like being able to see which ranks are doing "creative" things at a very quick glance.

[Astynax]

I'd like to see rankings and performance based on time or have time brackets

Totally biased when you could kill ore prior to roll or reaver before air phase and be grouped in against those who do have those phases, play well yet only get like 60th percentile because they didnt overgear crush the boss to ignore entire phases

[Deleted]

I'd like to see rankings and performance based on time or have time brackets

Totally biased when you could kill ore prior to roll or reaver before air phase and be grouped in against those who do have those phases, play well yet only get like 60th percentile because they didnt overgear crush the boss to ignore entire phases

There's such a thing as too many brackets, though. It's not that I think the idea is idiotic, don't get me wrong, but it's the sort of thinking that leads to "oh I'm rank 1 mage with an exactly 4:20, no boomkin, 2-healer Hellfire Assault kill". Start making the brackets too granular and people start looking for that one exact bracket that makes them look best.

At the end of the day if you want worthwhile ranks, play in a worthwhile guild or rank in spite of it.

[Deleted]

The optimal solution is to have filtering and leave it to the user to filter. Besides, most people ignore certain ranks by "personal consensus". e.g. If I'm 720 and I'm looking for 5min fights to help me, I may not be that interested to look at fights of a 735 that last 1.5min.

[Kihra]

Click Search Fights... in the upper right of the rankings page. You can already filter by date, by duration or by item level.

[Caladia]

Yeah, the search feature is super nice.