Balance Druid - Seed of Creation and Valor Point Upgrades

[Deleted]

With Seed of Creation's proc chance for balance druids being set to 100% at mythic warforged, what do these item level upgrades mean for us here really?

Without another stat on the trinket, its pointless to upgrade it beyond this point.

Does this mean we fall behind other classes then due to poor design here?
Do other trinkets pull ahead?

My initial thoughts of "oh item level upgrades - nice", have been a little dampened

Looking some other people's thoughts here and some insight from those better at the math and theory than myself

[Adramelch]

I'd guess that none of the class trinkets will be upgradeable. Heck we have no idea at this point if all items will be upgradeable.

[Keiyra]

Well either:

option 1) Class trinkets wont be upgradeable - no effect, carry on

option 2) Class trinkets will be upgradeable, and if you happen to be fortunate enough to have a WF mythic version - then yes you are SOL on that slot - for everyone else, it allows them to increase their % chance closer to 100% without having to wait for WF. (though once they hit 100%+, then they too will be comparatively weaker than other classes who can keep upgrading their trinket)

Its bad design on this trinket in the first place, coming to bite blizz in the butt again. Unless of course they choose option 1, in which case, move along....move along.

[huth]

Given how the class trinkets are designed, 1) is probably the best choice. Balance isn't the only one that would interact weirdly with that.

[theburned]

Ok I don't really think Blizz would care about this one for this simple reason, if you already have a class trinket from mythic which is also warforged, you don't need the gear to progress further into a raid which you have already beaten.

I really don't get why they didn't just make the trinket have a 100% proc chance to begin with and make ilvl increase the damage dealt by the starfall.

Also if you happen to have a mythic warforged one, it will probably scale a bit better into next expansion, it doesn't really make up for anything but at least helps a little.

chances are that the M wf iskar trinket will be better for logs aswell.

Eitherway this change is mostly aimed to nerf the instance, if you are already overgearing major parts of it, they would not care about someone crying about having their class trinket not scale... like how many people have the M wf class trinket for balance eitherway, I think I am overexaggregating if I say 50 people have it. (the heroic wf one was a different thing a lot of people could get it aswell as somewhat easy access to the mythic one aswell.

[facerollin]

Can Mythic seed (with ilvl upgrades) just be 100%, RNG is already shit enough within the spec.

[finishinblow]

The third option would be them nerfing the class trinket again to make it so that mwf+upgraded is the one 100%, but that is the worst case scenario.

[Catbug]

It's currently upgradeable on the PTR, giving it a 4% (!) higher chance per upgrade, for a totalt of 8% putting a heroic one at 90% and hwf at 95%. What this does to mythic trinkets I do not know.

The third option would be them nerfing the class trinket again to make it so that mwf+upgraded is the one 100%, but that is the worst case scenario.

I don't see that happening. The normal mode one is considered useless already by a lot of people for its low proc chance and there just isn't any other trinket in the instance that work for us.

[Deleted]

It's currently upgradeable on the PTR, giving it a 4% (!) higher chance per upgrade, for a totalt of 8% putting a heroic one at 90% and hwf at 95%. What this does to mythic trinkets I do not know.

I don't see that happening. The normal mode one is considered useless already by a lot of people for its low proc chance and there just isn't any other trinket in the instance that work for us.

It essentially just re-introduces the issues extant pre-nerf. A double-upgraded Mythic trinket will be indistinguishable from a double-upgraded MWF SoC.

It really just means that you should more or less literally never give Mythic Vanq tokens to your Balance druids if you care about putting them to efficient use until absolutely everyone else on the token has one.

[finishinblow]

I don't see that happening. The normal mode one is considered useless already by a lot of people for its low proc chance and there just isn't any other trinket in the instance that work for us.

It doesn't have to be a nerf equally to every one, they could just bring the top end down closer to the normal/heroic. But that being said I hope it's just useless after the double upgrade rather than a nerf putting mwf at 100% exactly again.

[theburned]

It really just means that you should more or less literally never give Mythic Vanq tokens to your Balance druids if you care about putting them to efficient use until absolutely everyone else on the token has one.

There is literally so much wrong with this statement, the trinket will most likely still be BiS for balance druids, and trying to be efficient with a token that drops from the last boss of an expansion, there is literally no reason to be efficient with something like that, you are talking about not giving an item to someone just because there is a small chance that it gets wf, and that the wf roll is useless.

[Deleted]

There is literally so much wrong with this statement, the trinket will most likely still be BiS for balance druids, and trying to be efficient with a token that drops from the last boss of an expansion, there is literally no reason to be efficient with something like that, you are talking about not giving an item to someone just because there is a small chance that it gets wf, and that the wf roll is useless.

It's up to you whether you care or not about efficient gearing after farm is over (and many guilds will rightfully care not at all), but you simply cannot contest that the token is strictly more useful when given to a rogue or a mage because there are no "negative" outcomes. Having a token roll WF is abjectly useless in 6.2.3 if it's in the hands of a balance druid.

[Catbug]

I don't see how it matters, In my eyes it means you don't have to upgrade the trinket any further since it's already perfect and you can spend that valor on something else.

[theburned]

It's up to you whether you care or not about efficient gearing after farm is over (and many guilds will rightfully care not at all), but you simply cannot contest that the token is strictly more useful when given to a rogue or a mage because there are no "negative" outcomes. Having a token roll WF is abjectly useless in 6.2.3 if it's in the hands of a balance druid.

You are making some heavy assumptions though, while there is one very important thing to note about the class trinket for boomkins and that is having 100% on it is a lot more valuable than having 95% on it, just due to the fact that it is reliable, there is never any questions about what happens when you use starsurge, unlike 95%, but yes I agree on the matter that you should not give wf/socket rolls to boomkins, also compared to boomkins other classes such as rogues or mages have other good alternatives, boomkins do not have any good alternative to the class trinket, for single target I guess we got GSR, but on aoe there is nothing that could compare to a 100% starfall proc.
there are no negative outcomes for druids either, also basic statistics tells you that if a boomkin the chance of the mage rolling wf is not any lower, now ofc you have one less chance to get wf, but this does not outweigh the fact that it's a huge upgrade for us, aswell as giving them to boomkins first would still mean they would be able to upgrade their other items quicker on the off chance that they get a wf roll.

[finishinblow]

At least for single target in HFC since fel lord is a demon we may be using the heirloom trinket.

[manbearburd]

yes you will fall behind other classes because your trinket only does 20% of your damage instead of 21%