This isn't Valor

[angelmaz]

Valor points are used to buy gear. They help you round out your gear and provide an RNG-free way to collect certain key pieces. They can be capped from raiding OR dungeons.

These "valor points" don't do any of that. They 'upgrade our items' (as if we needed this poor MoP feature back) instead of purchase new ones. They also can't be earned in raids (fail).

So while 6.2.3 is certainly a step in the right direction, the "valor" they've introduced is not what we asked for. It exists for exactly two, transparent reasons:

1. Nerf HFC so more people can clear it. Normal is already a joke, so this must be aimed at Heroic. Strange.

2. Get us back into dungeons.

Frankly, I do think dungeons need to be incentivized far more than they are currently. But Valor should let us buy gear, and it should also be earned while raiding Heroic+.

[vitor210]

I agree with you. But, in a sense, valor points in WoD were apexy cristals, specialy in Tanaan Jungle

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

It's a start at least.

And honestly this is a big tip of the hand toward their Legion philosophy. 725 gear in Mythic Dungeons? Upgrades?

Raiding is going to be an optional part of the game, not the only way to progress after gaining 30 iLevels at 110.

[Calzaeth]

Valor points are used to buy gear. They help you round out your gear and provide an RNG-free way to collect certain key pieces. They can be capped from raiding OR dungeons.

These "valor points" don't do any of that. They 'upgrade our items' (as if we needed this poor MoP feature back) instead of purchase new ones. They also can't be earned in raids (fail).

So while 6.2.3 is certainly a step in the right direction, the "valor" they've introduced is not what we asked for. It exists for exactly two, transparent reasons:

1. Nerf HFC so more people can clear it. Normal is already a joke, so this must be aimed at Heroic. Strange.

2. Get us back into dungeons.

Frankly, I do think dungeons need to be incentivized far more than they are currently. But Valor should let us buy gear, and it should also be earned while raiding Heroic+.

So... you want to earn currency to buy gear, while raiding at the level that already drops the best gear, coolest titles, and special mounts?

Do you want a marching band at your bus stop, too?

[Zoldor]

Really its an already integrated currency system. Was probably easy to bring back into the game with little programming effort and its just focused at stretching the content and giving those raiders in heroic who won't make the Mythic step for whatever reason something to get out of running HFC over and over until Legion and give Mythic folks something as well. Gear affects Mythic less, helpful for sure, but really you can do the strat or can't gear isn't going to bail you on the second half of Mythic HFC. And actually you don't even get Valor from raiding. You have to do other content. I'm okay with that as well.

It is still Valor because Valor is just a currency used to increase player power. This does that. It is valor you just don't buy gear directly with it. Remember with valor you could buy crafting mats and other things as well. Gems if I remember correctly. So it has always just been a currency used to increase player power.

Also, as I've already had to point out this boost has little to do with Heroic and Mythic raiding. That group gets two things and only one is actually a thing. You get a Moose mount for Archi death for heroic guilds and above...actually just one thing. Valor isn't from any form of raiding but LFR. This entire patch is focused around the middle of the road player who isn't going to be a hardcore raider of any kind. And focused around getting alts boosted up. It will help Heroic and Mythic raiders as now maybe Apps will have some well geared folks, or if your raid was missing a key class or needed 1 or 2 more folks to fill up for Mythic it might do that as well, but for the most part this patch is targeted around the general wow population and not the high end raid population. Cross-Realm Mythic is the only thing, but you aren't going to PUG Mythic Gorefiend and above very easily. Might help some groups missing one or two people one week, but I shudder to think about pugging anything from gorefiend forward without knowing those folks have some serious experience.

I'm okay with all of this, I get two new mounts to seek, boost my power level which is nice for my heroic group (we never have more that 15/16 people EVER so Mythic is out of question cause we won't pug folks for that and no intention of doing it anyways) and I'll be able to boost my alts up in power. Not bad, but I feel its just generally trying to stretch out WoD.

[MasterHamster]

You might've failed to realize that this Valor is brought back in order to make "off-side" content (dungeons, LFR) more rewarding. So no, it not being rewarded from raids is exactly in line with what it's supposed to do.

This is what WoD lacks, things to do on non-raid nights. Right now we don't need high-level Valor gear, but the upgrade system will do a lot when it comes to waving carrots on sticks to the bored masses. Yes, it's a cheap way to prolong content. Welcome to MMO development, where stretching content is necessary.

[Transmigration]

So... you want to earn currency to buy gear, while raiding at the level that already drops the best gear, coolest titles, and special mounts?

Do you want a marching band at your bus stop, too?

That's how it was in Wrath and most people liked it. He's not asking for some new handout, he's asking for something we already had and lost for whatever reason.

[Firefall]

Buying gear that's an upgrade and upgrading gear are the same thing by the numbers. Do remember that all any item is is a collection of stats and benefits.

What this does is make it so that dungeons are not the source of *gear* but can provide more numbers (which, again, is the same thing as gear). If they were the best source of gear people would complain about being forced to do dungeons.

And no, this isn't how Valor was put in the first time. It's just mathematically the exact same thing, and the better manifestation of Valor that people enjoyed the most.

Just think of everything as stats. The best stats are from raids, followed closely by Mythic Dungeons. Then you get more stats from many different activities through Valor. You progress your character by doing the things you want to do.

[Transmigration]

And no, this isn't how Valor was put in the first time. It's just mathematically the exact same thing, and the better manifestation of Valor that people enjoyed the most.

What I enjoyed the most was buying my tier sets with badges from 5 mans in WotLK and then raiding for fun. Upgrading some barely visible number is not enjoyable at all to me. The old badge system had me playing 5 alts and raiding on 3 of them plus my main each week. Since it was changed I barely feel like playing one character. I'm sure I'm just part of a vocal minority though.

[Seefer]

That's how it was in Wrath and most people liked it. He's not asking for some new handout, he's asking for something we already had and lost for whatever reason.

Frost badges in dungeons say hi.

[Transmigration]

Frost badges in dungeons say hi.

That's exactly what I'm referring to. The weekly kill for badges was fun too and I looked forward to it, as well as Vault. None of this stuff exists anymore and it led to people getting bored in my experience. These very reasons are why so many old friends I played with everyday no longer play and haven't for years.

Now that we have Mythic raids with special gear, why would even the elite care if we got our gear with badges. I'd prefer that over Looking For Clusterfuck any day.

[mvaliz]

I agree with you. But, in a sense, valor points in WoD were apexy cristals, specialy in Tanaan Jungle

Pretty much this.

Theres no point atm of having valor buy gear as its redundant with apexis gear. Chances are, however, that legion will combine both buyable gear and upgrades.

So, yes, this is valor points. What you spend it on is irrelevant to what it is called.

[angelmaz]

What I enjoyed the most was buying my tier sets with badges from 5 mans in WotLK and then raiding for fun. Upgrading some barely visible number is not enjoyable at all to me. The old badge system had me playing 5 alts and raiding on 3 of them plus my main each week. Since it was changed I barely feel like playing one character. I'm sure I'm just part of a vocal minority though.

This is basically my primary point. Upgrading your gear is not the same as buying tier or trinkets, for example. Tier bonuses and trinkets are so powerful that missing one due to bad luck can absolutely tank your performance.

The secondary point is that raids (Normal and above) should also be rewarding valor points, as they did in the past. Dungeons need their own incentives. Making them a necessity for valor (i.e. raid currency) is not appropriate and should not be tolerated, let alone lauded.

[ComputerNerd]

That's how it was in Wrath and most people liked it. He's not asking for some new handout, he's asking for something we already had and lost for whatever reason.

Nobody ever proved the "most people" argument, so stop using it.

Running lower content shouldn't be a source of gear from content above it.
That is what valor as a gear purchase allows.
It shouldn't be that.

[Transmigration]

Running lower content shouldn't be a source of gear from content above it.
That is what valor as a gear purchase allows.
It shouldn't be that.

That's just like your opinion, man.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's a start at least.

And honestly this is a big tip of the hand toward their Legion philosophy. 725 gear in Mythic Dungeons? Upgrades?

Raiding is going to be an optional part of the game, not the only way to progress after gaining 30 iLevels at 110.

I doubt raiding will be ridden of the gear path. It's just expanding the use of dungeons. Don't project too much.

[Supercool]

They wanted gold to be the "universal currency." It wasn't. You couldn't buy any worthwhile gear with gold at launch, save a few rep trinkets that were relevant for one week. Everything decent outside of raids was either Apexis or crafted. Apexis replaced Valor.

Since Apexis can't follow us out of WoD, they're reintroducing Valor now in preparation for it being a part of Legion.

[Foj]

1. Nerf HFC so more people can clear it. Normal is already a joke, so this must be aimed at Heroic. Strange.

They want people to clear Heroic Archimonde and get the weird mount in large numbers. I'm not sure how that's going to work out though, really, with the numbers of groups clearing Heroic Archimonde being better described as "dozens" rather than "thousands."

[High-Chief Greathoof]

Valor was added so that raiders were not forced to do PvP content since the new season will have as good if not better statistics. So... yeah... Take your pick: Mythic Dungeons or Rated PvP.

[Jester Joe]

Hm? Why would you want to add a 3rd way to buy gear? There's already the crafted gear you can get with gold, and apexis crystals that can get you 695 gear.

I think it's fine the way they re-introduced it honestly.