Thread: New BiS?

  1. #1

    New BiS?

    With the new boost to mythic dungeon gear (725 WF) wont most of shadows off pieces get replaced? Alot of them currently have mastery/vers or are low ilvl

    - - - Updated - - -

    upgrade-able slots include OH/ring/boots/wrists/belt/cape and possibly trinket. not neck though

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk shanthi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,775
    Each ilevel boost for mythic dungeon loot is the equivalent of a warforged proc, supposedly. So to push a 685 piece to 725, you essentially need it to proc warforged 5 times. Unless they drastically increase the chances for those procs, it's extremely unlikely you'll get many, if any, 725 pieces from mythic dungeons, let alone the specific pieces you'd want.

    The theoretical BiS might change, though.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie.
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

  3. #3
    Well mastery isn't bad for CoP, if you're speaking about AS though it's highly possible.

  4. #4
    I've never had it proc anything between the full 705 (being raised to 725) and the regular 685. So I'm thinking it would be an all or nothing sort of thing

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk shanthi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,775
    Quote Originally Posted by Adammonroe View Post
    I've never had it proc anything between the full 705 (being raised to 725) and the regular 685. So I'm thinking it would be an all or nothing sort of thing
    They've already said it won't be. Actually, in re-reading it, it'll be more than 5 upgrade levels, it'll be increments of five ilevels from 685 to 725. So that means 8 upgrade levels, with your chances of the next upgrade level going down the higher the level.

    Thus, we’re also expanding the power of Warforged items in Mythic dungeons—rather than a static +20 item level bonus when a Mythic dungeon item is Warforged, there will be a chance for even greater increases in power. The very luckiest players might even obtain item level 725 versions of the dungeon drops, with increasingly better odds of 720, 715, and so forth, fully spanning the range from 685 to 725 in five item-level increments.
    Link
    That is not dead which can eternal lie.
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    I think it will depend on whether or not the dungeon items will be able to be upgraded as much as the hfc mythic items

  7. #7
    Deleted
    You're also FAR (!) more likely to get a raid item with warforged and even a socket than you are to get the correct item, with the max warforged bonus from a mythic dungeon.

    That's not to say that those items won't be potentially better, indeed it depends on if they can be upgraded, can they also roll sockets?

    Going through each slot;
    helm won't be replaced because tier
    neck from raid is already very crit heavy, despite having multistrike instead of haste it can also be 1ilvl higher, I don't believe a 725 mythic dungeon neck could beat this unless the stat distribution also changes on the dungeon loot.
    shoulders are tier
    cloak is 726 crit haste from raid and could be 725 crit haste from dungeon, I don't think the stat balance is better from dungeons
    chest is tier
    bracers... possible. But i think the raw ilvl will outweigh the stat gains, you're comparing 725 crit haste bracers to 736 crit mastery, 11ilvls is not a small amount and despite the mastery it does still have crit. I think this would depend on your specific stat weights but 'possible'.
    gloves are tier
    belt, this might be possible, similar to bracers, you're comparing 725 crit haste to 731 crit versatility, however in this case the 731 is crit heavy. It's possible but I think the raid item will still come out ahead due to sheer ilvl.
    legs from mannoroth are already crit haste and can be 736
    boots, 736 crit versatility and crit heavy from zakuun, once again i think the raw ilvl outweighs exchanging versatility for haste, since both will have crit already
    ring, 731 crit haste ring from raid, should beat a 725 ring with the same stats
    trinkets ????? could be interesting, I wonder what a 725 crushto's runin alarm would look like. It's hard to judge since the stat scaling on trinkets seems completely arbitrary sometimes but I could see this coming out ahead, maybe some of the other trinkets too depending on how well they scale up.

    Overall I don't think there will be anything proper BiS from the mythic dungeons mostly because it still falls behind in ilvl compared to equivalent raid gear (ie, warforged compared to warforged). It will also be super rare since the loot tables are huge in dungeons and you'll need to roll the top tier warforged, they're still only lootable once a week.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    trinkets ????? could be interesting, I wonder what a 725 crushto's runin alarm would look like. It's hard to judge since the stat scaling on trinkets seems completely arbitrary sometimes but I could see this coming out ahead, maybe some of the other trinkets too depending on how well they scale up.

    Currently the mythic dungeon war forged trinkets are significantly below other trinkets at their item level. Unless they drastically change how they scale I can't imagine them being anywhere near competitive.

  9. #9
    Well dont forget that you'll be able to upgrade hfc items by 10 ilvls which will put a wf piece 16 ilvls ahead. Its currently not worth dropping tier just for more crit. That on top of the fact that while crit moves ahead of int at ~4+ targets its very close so the higher ilvl will still win.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by djriff View Post
    Well dont forget that you'll be able to upgrade hfc items by 10 ilvls which will put a wf piece 16 ilvls ahead. Its currently not worth dropping tier just for more crit. That on top of the fact that while crit moves ahead of int at ~4+ targets its very close so the higher ilvl will still win.
    I was working under the assumption that the mythic dungeon loot could also be upgraded. I've not seen anything mentioning the specifics of what can be upgraded yet, have they said it's only hfc raid loot ?

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk shanthi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,775
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    I was working under the assumption that the mythic dungeon loot could also be upgraded. I've not seen anything mentioning the specifics of what can be upgraded yet, have they said it's only hfc raid loot ?
    They haven't said yet which gear will be upgradeable. I think it would be surprising if mythic dungeon gear, crafted gear and baleful gear couldn't be, as all of that is "current content" and they're specifically making mythic dungeon gear and baleful gear even more relevant in 6.2.3.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie.
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

  12. #12
    High Overlord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Santiago, Chile
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    I was working under the assumption that the mythic dungeon loot could also be upgraded. I've not seen anything mentioning the specifics of what can be upgraded yet, have they said it's only hfc raid loot ?
    Front page news:

    Patch 6.2.3 PTR - Build 20601
    Build 20601 will be deployed to the PTR realms soon. Notes are in progress, so keep checking back!

    Valor sources are in, so far we have discovered:
    Each 5 item level upgrade costs 250 Valor. Only HFC/Baleful gear can be upgraded right now.

    Apparently not yet, but it suggests to me that it might still be on the table...
    "Shit Happens" - Well, imagine if a pegasus had the bowel-control ability of a pigeon, there'd be a lot of cases saying the following: "Cause of Death: Killed by a giant flying piece of shit...."


  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk shanthi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,775
    Also from the PTR datamined strings:

    Valor - A currency used to increase the power of items from Hellfire Citadel, Tanaan Jungle, and Mythic Dungeons.
    So mythic dungeons definitely appear to be planned as valor-upgradeable, but apparently not crafted gear.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie.
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by shanthi View Post
    Also from the PTR datamined strings:



    So mythic dungeons definitely appear to be planned as valor-upgradeable, but apparently not crafted gear.
    If this is the case, then the struggle will be real

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by actionhank View Post
    If this is the case, then the struggle will be real
    I don't think it will change anything though, as I outlined each slot above there shouldn't be anything from mythic dungeons that's actually BiS (other than potentially trinkets, but unlikely). That's not to say you won't be able to get upgrades from 5mans if you're missing some of the raid loot though

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    I don't think it will change anything though, as I outlined each slot above there shouldn't be anything from mythic dungeons that's actually BiS (other than potentially trinkets, but unlikely). That's not to say you won't be able to get upgrades from 5mans if you're missing some of the raid loot though
    offhand, neck and cloak. The trinkets from mythic dungeons are too under budget tho.
    Also consider that as COP you dont stack crit. Seeing how COP is ahead on many of the fights once you have full mythic gear and your guild is farming, My guess is that a lot of the cop pieces could be increased by using perfect mythid dungeon items.
    (mfw I think I just reported your post instead of quoting it xD as you are a mod you should be able to see it. my bad. )

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by actionhank View Post
    offhand, neck and cloak. The trinkets from mythic dungeons are too under budget tho.
    Also consider that as COP you dont stack crit. Seeing how COP is ahead on many of the fights once you have full mythic gear and your guild is farming, My guess is that a lot of the cop pieces could be increased by using perfect mythid dungeon items.
    (mfw I think I just reported your post instead of quoting it xD as you are a mod you should be able to see it. my bad. )
    I think you're comparing the 725 (warforged) dungeon loot with 720 (non-warforged) raid loot, the equal quality (warforged) raid loot will still be 1lvl higher than the dungeon loot, and those items are crit heavy from the raid so you're comparing the loss of 1ilvl and some crit to swap out a less optimal stat for haste. It would certainly be close, very close but I think the raid loot will still come out ahead for every slot. Once the actual items are out with their stats I'll do the maths with stat weights to be sure though

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    I think you're comparing the 725 (warforged) dungeon loot with 720 (non-warforged) raid loot, the equal quality (warforged) raid loot will still be 1lvl higher than the dungeon loot, and those items are crit heavy from the raid so you're comparing the loss of 1ilvl and some crit to swap out a less optimal stat for haste. It would certainly be close, very close but I think the raid loot will still come out ahead for every slot. Once the actual items are out with their stats I'll do the maths with stat weights to be sure though
    I was comparing WF dungeon loot to WF mythic loot. You are however right about the cloak being better, since it is not only better itemized with the crit heavy, but also 1 ilvl ahead. For the neck and offhand however I dont think that they would be better than a perfectly itemized crit/haste dungeon item.
    In the case of COP, I think you could get potential upgrades in the neck and bracer slots.
    Anyway as you said it is still gonna be very close, and personally I most likely wont be bothered farming mythic dungeons for months

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •