Europe court: Denying 'Armenian Genocide' not a crime

[GennGreymane]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/1...104909932.html

The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that Switzerland violated a Turkish politician's right to freedom of speech by convicting him for rejecting that 1915 Armenian killings in Ottoman Empire constituted a genocide.

The court, ECHR, concluded in its final binding judgement on Thursday that it had not been necessary, in a democratic society, to subject to a criminal penalty in order to protect the rights of the Armenian community at stake in the case.

"It was undisputed that Mr Perincek’s conviction and punishment, together with the order to pay compensation to the Switzerland-Armenia Association, had constituted an interference with the exercise of his right to freedom of expression," a statement by the court said.

Yunus Soner, Dogu Perincek's senior adviser and vice-chairman of his Vatan Party, told Al Jazeera that the ECHR confirmed denial of genocide claims is a valid opinion and banning it is a violation of human rights.

"It is a milestone judgement for Turkey and wider region, ending the lie of Armenian Genocide. This lie was a part of the plot to divide Turkey and it was made popular by the West for this reason.

"It is a massive victory for Turkey, dedicated, by Mr Perincek, to Turkish army who has been fighting for Turkey’s unity."

The case was between Switzerland, where denying the "Armenian Genocide" was a crime, and Dogu Perincek, the Turkish politician who publicly called it an "international lie" while he was in Switzerland in 2005.

He was convicted by a Swiss judiciary in 2007 in a case filed by Switzerland-Armenia Association and brought the case to the ECHR in 2008.

The ECHR's first verdict in 2013 was in Perincek's favour, but it was appealed by Switzerland, which was concluded on Thursday.

'A natural judgement'

Mevlut Cavusoglu, Turkey's former foreign minister and government MP, told Al Jazeera that it was natural judgement taken for legal reasons, not political ones.

"The ECHR is the house of democracy, rule of law and human rights, which also includes the freedom of expression. For this reason, it is natural for the court come to this verdict."

"European countries, who claim to defend democratic values, have passed laws restricting freedom of speech over how to define certain incidents, such as the co-called Armenian Genocide," he said.

Cavusoglu added: "Even in France, the law [passed by jurisdiction] cancelled by the Constitutional Court. The ECHR has abolished these bizarre practises in Europe. In Turkey, there is freedom of speech and there are people who deny or accept the so-called Armenian Genocide. They are free to do so. "

Turkey agrees that many Armenians died in ethnic fighting and the deportation process between 1915 and 1917 during World War I, putting its estimate at 300,000 casualties.

Armenia, meanwhile, says 1.5 million died in the process - including the march to Syria - in what it calls a genocide.

The accusation is denied by Turkey, who says there was no systematic attempt to kill all Armenians.

[Deleted]

So, denying the holocaust is wrong, and denying the armenian genocide is ok. Got it!

I'm wondering if this ruling has anything to do with this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34535933

European leaders are to discuss measures to ease the region's migration crisis, with Turkey the focus of their efforts in Brussels.

Nearly 600,000 migrants have reached the EU by sea so far this year.

Turkey is hosting some two million migrants, most of them fleeing the war in neighbouring Syria.

Ahead of the summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel stressed the need for a joint EU effort to tackle the crisis and said Turkey played a "key role".

"Most war refugees that come to Europe travel via Turkey. We won't be able to order and stem the refugee movement without working together with Turkey," she told the German parliament on Thursday morning.

BBC Europe correspondent Chris Morris says most EU leaders are convinced that efforts to contain the migration crisis will not succeed without closer co-operation with the Turkish government.

But, he adds, Ankara wants plenty in return - more financial aid to ease the strain of hosting refugees, as well as visa liberalisation and progress on Turkey's stalled application for EU membership.

With the issue of the armenian genocide being one of their greatest obstacles and all...

[Deleted]

This is why it's such a fucking failure. They shouldn't be able to go above a countries laws.

[JohnBrown1917]

A individual should be allowed to deny whatever he wants to, not that should protect him/her from the social consequences.

[Deleted]

This is why it's such a fucking failure. They shouldn't be able to go above a countries laws.

Its not the EU court, its the ECHR - There is no 'they' - Their express purpose is to bind the states to certain values.
Although once you let the holocaust in, you should let the Armenian in.

[Deleted]

Its not the EU court, its the ECHR - There is no 'they' - Their express purpose is to bind the states to certain values.
Although once you let the holocaust in, you should let the Armenian in.

I wasn't talking about EU court. EHCR has been acting retarded a lot of times.

[Acidbaron]

Dangerous precedent this means that one of the complaints of the EU against Turkey joining the EU is no longer a 'legal' problem.

[Kalis]

I don't see how this is relevant to any possible EU membership, you can still demand that Turkey acknowledge it without requiring individual politicians to do so, nor am I sure why he claims that "It is a milestone judgement for Turkey and wider region, ending the lie of Armenian Genocide, as the Court didn't rule on the validity of his statements, just that he had a right to make them.

When it comes to their membership, Turkey's ongoing illegal occupation of an existing EU member state's territory is of more concern to me than some random politician talking crap.

[Rukh]

Does the EU human rights court rule against holocaust deniers or is it countries that have laws against denying the holocaust?

[Kalis]

Does the EU human rights court rule against holocaust deniers or is it countries that have laws against denying the holocaust?

Individual countries, e.g. we don't have holocaust denial laws in the UK.

[Rukh]

Individual countries, e.g. we don't have holocaust denial laws in the UK.

Ok, I don't see any news here then.

[Puri]

I don't know why people regard this as a victory for Turkey.

It's not that the court said that there was no "Armenian Genocide", but the court said everyone can claim or deny that there was one. It's just protecting freedom of speech.

And I agree that it should not be illegal to deny the Holocaust, as it is in many european countries. Nothing should be forbidden to say, no matter how much bullshit it contains.

[Revi]

So, denying the holocaust is wrong, and denying the armenian genocide is ok. Got it!

Both should be legal. The fact that a single specific opinion is illegal is atrocious.

[Kalis]

Both should be legal. The fact that a single specific opinion is illegal is atrocious.

Apparently in Switzerland, denying genocide and/or crimes against humanity is illegal, not specifically the Holocaust.

[satimy]

I've yet to see proof that 6 million Jews died, however there is significant proof that they were targeted and brutalized. However the 6 million number is used as a propaganda device to push Zionist agendas. The Armenian genocide would be a lot more recognized if 50% of the American media were made up of Armenians.

Holocaust denial laws are weak sauce and probably there to prevent people from actually finding out the real number of Jews that died, it's a disgrace.

[Themius]

Doesn't a large portion of EU have laws against Holocaust Denial? It seems a little weird to me.

[Acidbaron]

Doesn't a large portion of EU have laws against Holocaust Denial? It seems a little weird to me.

Yup, law per country in on this wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_a...locaust_denial

[Revi]

I've yet to see proof that 6 million Jews died, however there is significant proof that they were targeted and brutalized. However the 6 million number is used as a propaganda device to push Zionist agendas. The Armenian genocide would be a lot more recognized if 50% of the American media were made up of Armenians.

Holocaust denial laws are weak sauce and probably there to prevent people from actually finding out the real number of Jews that died, it's a disgrace.

The number is heavily disputed, and likely wrong. It really doesn't matter at all though.. 1 million, 3 million, 6 million, 10 million. The war happened, lots of people died, atrocities were committed, and no group should be treated worse or with preference for it now.

Sure, there are Jewish interest groups who still use the holocaust to push an agenda, they're radicals/extremists like we have all other religions, and that's fair to criticize, but even cutting that number in half wouldn't do anything to change the rhetoric or it's effect.

[Lesane]

I don't know why people regard this as a victory for Turkey.

It's not that the court said that there was no "Armenian Genocide", but the court said everyone can claim or deny that there was one. It's just protecting freedom of speech.

And I agree that it should not be illegal to deny the Holocaust, as it is in many european countries. Nothing should be forbidden to say, no matter how much bullshit it contains.

It's a victory for Turkey because it means people can still openly voice their doubt or criticism regarding the Armenian "genocide" issue. Let's say it's not a genocide, but it's somehow illegal to say that in a bunch of countries. Everyone growing up in such countries will only hear the one side claiming that there was a genocide because the opposition is silenced, which means that eventually generation after generation gets indoctrinated with thinking it was a genocide. At that point it doesn't matter anymore whether it was actually a genocide or not, because people have been indoctrinated to believe it was. And then everyone from such countries will never oppose any pressure being put on Turkey with the goal of forcing them to admit to having committed a genocide and being forced to pay compensation to the families of the victims and so on.

Pretty much everything happening in this Armenian genocide debate has a ripple effect that affects Turkey quite a lot, more than it does Armenia actually.

[Netherspark]

Words should never be a crime.