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  1. #21
    Is it being sized to house illegal immigrants or "refugees"?

    Because that's what Germany is doing.
    MAGA
    When all you do is WIN WIN WIN

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    Because liberals don't care about your fantasy government standoffs, they want to stop seeing piles of bodies every year.
    If they wanted to see those piles of dead bodies stop happening, then they need to quit trying to attack the symptoms and go after the problems which lead people to do that, and it isn't the gun. It is stress, desperation, and lack of access to mental help if they need it.

    The fix the major stress factors and other such things in this nation and the gun violence will go down as well, getting rid of the guns will just hide the issue till it gets even bigger and explodes into something even worse.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Guns won't protect you from a government that has full military force. And the second amendment was made during a time of a foriegn nation invading and we had to protect ourselves and the *guns* back then took forever to use(Muskets). It might of worked back then as they are now but times have changed. I'm pointing out the second amendment CAN be regulated.
    Then the first amendment shouldn't apply to anything but paper you can write or print on.

    The right to travel shouldn't apply to anything but your two feet or a horse/donkey/cow. (or a boat that uses sails)

    My point: Trust me, the founding fathers were a lot smarter than you or me.
    Last edited by TITAN308; 2015-10-18 at 04:34 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    If they wanted to see those piles of dead bodies stop happening, then they need to quit trying to attack the symptoms and go after the problems which lead people to do that, and it isn't the gun. It is stress, desperation, and lack of access to mental help if they need it.

    The fix the major stress factors and other such things in this nation and the gun violence will go down as well, getting rid of the guns will just hide the issue till it gets even bigger and explodes into something even worse.
    Funny, when liberals want to spend money on better education, social care etc, they get shut down there too.

    The fact is, straight up, reducing the number of guns in circulation would directly reduce the lethality of violence. Its observable in modern countries. Yeah, we'd like to reduce the causes of people resorting to violence too, but attempting to cast it as an either/or is a tactic.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  5. #25
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Since when was a Texas land dispute about gun control?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Then the first amendment shouldn't apply to anything but paper you can write or print on.

    The right to travel shouldn't apply to anything but your two feet or a horse/donkey/cow. (or a boat that uses sails)

    My point: Trust me, the founding fathers were a lot smarter than you or me.
    That's not necessarily true. Also, they founding fathers didn't even agree on what the second amendment meant. There were hot debats at the time about how to word it. Its some interesting reading if you have the time. It went though a lot of iterations.

    Furthermore, the plan that the constitution is a living document means that courts can interpret it to cover things it might not have intended, or not cover things it might not have indented if it's causing obvious harm. We keep the first amendment because it works really well. it might be scary to let people say things you strongly disagree with, but as a culture we've integrated pride that we allow it and fight it not by silencing them, but by having better ideas, so we let the courts extrapolate it to online content, phones, etc etc.

    On the other hand, when our culture is in a place where an amendment is directly harmful, we have the power to change that. We have amended the constitution to give women the right to vote, to treat all humans as humans and not property, to ban and then unban alcohol, etc. If a part of the constitution is in conflict with our evolving society, our founding fathers expected we would change it.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    On the other hand, when our culture is in a place where an amendment is directly harmful, we have the power to change that. We have amended the constitution to give women the right to vote, to treat all humans as humans and not property, to ban and then unban alcohol, etc. If a part of the constitution is in conflict with our evolving society, our founding fathers expected we would change it.
    Wait, what in the constitution gives you the right to booze? lol

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Wait, what in the constitution gives you the right to booze? lol
    If it doesn't prohibit it, it allows it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_...s_Constitution
    "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    At one time, we added to our constitution to strictly prohibit it. Turned out to be the pain in the ass, so now it's not prohibited, therefore allowed.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  9. #29
    Ok all that aside, you are right. Amendments can be amended.

    Don't think it is the Will of the majority though, so good luck with that.

    You are welcome to try though, it is your right after all.

    The closest I personally think you are going to get are heavy restrictions on a state or city level (ie; Chicago, Boston, NYC) like they have now. And don't forget southern California, man those guys hate guns.
    Last edited by TITAN308; 2015-10-18 at 04:51 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    Funny, when liberals want to spend money on better education, social care etc, they get shut down there too.

    The fact is, straight up, reducing the number of guns in circulation would directly reduce the lethality of violence. Its observable in modern countries. Yeah, we'd like to reduce the causes of people resorting to violence too, but attempting to cast it as an either/or is a tactic.
    I am all for improving our education, social services and our safety net, they are all shit at the moment.

    But reducing the number of guns, even if you could, would just be hiding the symptoms which would be a short term fix at best till it get even worse and exploded even more.

    And all of that is beside the point that you really can't get rid of all the guns in this nation or even a half of them. And it is getting easier and easier to make your own as well. It is about to be to the point where even the other nations have to accept that fact as more and more 3D printers take off. As it stands, currently you either need a metal shop for a decent firearm or you can make your own single shot with $5 and a trip to a Walmart Super Center. But the more the newer printers take off, the more irrelevant those become.

    I would rather they quit trying to take the guns and go after the problems, and the more they try to take the guns, the more they embolden a few others who like to exploit that fact.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Ok all that aside, you are right. Amendments can be amended.

    Don't think it is the Will of the majority though, so good luck with that.

    You are welcome to try though, it is your right after all.
    Well *I* don't want guns banned though, I want regulation on sales and manufacturing, and licensing. None of those things require constitutional amendment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I am all for improving our education, social services and our safety net, they are all shit at the moment.

    But reducing the number of guns, even if you could, would just be hiding the symptoms which would be a short term fix at best till it get even worse and exploded even more.

    And all of that is beside the point that you really can't get rid of all the guns in this nation or even a half of them. And it is getting easier and easier to make your own as well. It is about to be to the point where even the other nations have to accept that fact as more and more 3D printers take off. As it stands, currently you either need a metal shop for a decent firearm or you can make your own single shot with $5 and a trip to a Walmart Super Center. But the more the newer printers take off, the more irrelevant those become.

    I would rather they quit trying to take the guns and go after the problems, and the more they try to take the guns, the more they embolden a few others who like to exploit that fact.
    The "symptoms" are lots of dead people, and "hiding the symptoms" means those people are still alive, so you can understand why people may want to address this. And again, addressing it doesn't preclude ALSO addressing why we have such crap mental services and social isolation.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    The "symptoms" are lots of dead people, and "hiding the symptoms" means those people are still alive, so you can understand why people may want to address this. And again, addressing it doesn't preclude ALSO addressing why we have such crap mental services and social isolation.
    Those symptoms are signs of a much bigger issue that needs to be addressed and if not, those dead people will be the least of our concerns as there will likely be even more to join them.

    And you have a MUCH better chance of fixing those issues than you do of removing the guns.

    And a great deal of those people killed by guns would possibly end up killed in some other manner instead.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  13. #33
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Dey tuck er' land!!! *rabble rabble*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Since when was a Texas land dispute about gun control?
    It's always about gun control.

    Kittens? Nope, gun control.

  14. #34
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Dey tuck er' land!!! *rabble rabble*

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's always about gun control.

    Kittens? Nope, gun control.
    even when it's about draenei control?
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Those symptoms are signs of a much bigger issue that needs to be addressed and if not, those dead people will be the least of our concerns as there will likely be even more to join them.

    And you have a MUCH better chance of fixing those issues than you do of removing the guns.

    And a great deal of those people killed by guns would possibly end up killed in some other manner instead.
    Again, these aren't exclusive. I totally agree with you that social isolation and mental health issues need to be address, but that is irrelevant because it does not exclude gun control. Yeah. Mental health issues. Gotta fix them, cool.

    But also we can talk about sensible legislation to create gun licensing and restrictions on manufacturing. That's a thing that can happen in the US. We have put the first step in to making a workable healthcare change, and nobody thought we could ever do that, but we can.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    Again, these aren't exclusive. I totally agree with you that social isolation and mental health issues need to be address, but that is irrelevant because it does not exclude gun control. Yeah. Mental health issues. Gotta fix them, cool.

    But also we can talk about sensible legislation to create gun licensing and restrictions on manufacturing. That's a thing that can happen in the US. We have put the first step in to making a workable healthcare change, and nobody thought we could ever do that, but we can.
    We already have gun licensing and restrictions, the only thing I could honestly hope to add to the manufacturing restrictions would be to test fire each weapon made and record the bullet striation patterns down and attach it to the gun made it. Which still wouldn't do much when the majority of weapons used for crimes aren't legally obtained and the crimes aren't done by those licensed to even own the gun they used.

    Even if you were to try and restrict gun access, it would take generations before it had any measurable affect, and that is if they banned 3D printers right now as well.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    We already have gun licensing and restrictions, the only thing I could honestly hope to add to the manufacturing restrictions would be to test fire each weapon made and record the bullet striation patterns down and attach it to the gun made it. Which still wouldn't do much when the majority of weapons used for crimes aren't legally obtained and the crimes aren't done by those licensed to even own the gun they used.

    Even if you were to try and restrict gun access, it would take generations before it had any measurable affect, and that is if they banned 3D printers right now as well.
    3D printers aren't really an issue right now. People who put the investment in to 3-d printing a gun aren't generally not the type slinging drugs and robbing stores. And people robbing stores have it so easy to just go get their friend to buy them a gun why would they want to waste the time?

    And we don't have gun licensing and restrictions. Also I have no idea how I got on this topic, it's not really relevant :P I'm not going to bring it up any more in this thread.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    3D printers aren't really an issue right now. People who put the investment in to 3-d printing a gun aren't generally not the type slinging drugs and robbing stores. And people robbing stores have it so easy to just go get their friend to buy them a gun why would they want to waste the time?

    And we don't have gun licensing and restrictions. Also I have no idea how I got on this topic, it's not really relevant :P I'm not going to bring it up any more in this thread.
    If we don't have gun licensing and restrictions, why can't my friend without a single mental problem and no criminal record for violent crimes *but some drug offenses* not legally own a gun or get a licence to?

    And 3D Printing is picking up in steam relatively quickly and within the next 10 years will be a real issue when it comes to guns which is much faster than any luck you will have trying to remove them.

    And their friends aren't buying them legal guns and then giving it to them. Most guns used in crimes are stolen to begin with.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    If we don't have gun licensing and restrictions, why can't my friend without a single mental problem and no criminal record for violent crimes *but some drug offenses* not legally own a gun or get a licence to?

    And 3D Printing is picking up in steam relatively quickly and within the next 10 years will be a real issue when it comes to guns which is much faster than any luck you will have trying to remove them.

    And their friends aren't buying them legal guns and then giving it to them. Most guns used in crimes are stolen to begin with.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

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