Beijing Summons U.S. Ambassador Over U.S. Navy Ship Entering Disputed South China Sea

[GennGreymane]

http://time.com/4090165/china-us-south-china-sea/

"We stand firmly against the harm caused by any country to China's sovereignty"

China has condemned U.S. activity in the South China Sea after an American naval ship entered disputed waters close to Chinese-built artificial islands in the Spratly archipelago on Tuesday.

U.S. Ambassador to China Max Baucus has been summoned to explain the perceived incursion into territory between the Subi and Mischief reefs that Beijing claims as its own, reports Chinese state news wire Xinhua.

China’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said that China would “resolutely respond to any country’s deliberately provocative actions,” and would oppose any infringements on its territorial sovereignty, the BBC reports.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter confirmed to the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday that the U.S.S. Lassen, a guided-missile destroyer, did sail through the disputed waters. “I don’t like in general the idea of talking about our military operations … but what you read in the newspaper is accurate,” he said, reports the New York Times.

China has been turning reefs in the South China Sea into artificial islands since 2013, though neighboring nations have also started building in the highly disputed waters. Vietnam, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines all have competing claims to various islets and atolls.

Lu refused to comment on whether China would take military action were a similar incident to occur in the future.

“We stand firmly against the harm caused by any country to China’s sovereignty and security interests under the cloak of navigation and over-flight freedom,” the Chinese government said in a statement, adding that the “relevant authorities of the Chinese side monitored, followed and warned the U.S. vessel.”

[Gravity2015]

China’s Foreign Ministry spokesman has one of the most well known martial arts names of all time, you do not want to mess with Lu Kang's bicycle kick or his fireball lob -forealdo he's been in every Mortal Kombat game to date!

[Skroe]

It's really going to get their panties in a twist now that the US is going to keep doing it. Not anything China can do about it though. Hopefully the US is on guard against some kind of face saving stunt, like trying to force down a P-8 Poseidon (in a redo of what happened in 2001). Something like that is what the US needs to be on guard for.

This is long over due. The US should go one step further and destroy any reefs that could be built on in the future and nip Chinese ambitions in the bud. The nine-dash-line is the most transparently bullshit land grab in the world today. In a conflict, they wouldn't help much - the US, Australian and Japanese navies could easily destroy them all. But before that, they're very useful for china.



Those islands give China unfortunate reach. We'll see how they fair after a few typhoon seasons. They aren't very far above sea level after all.

[GennGreymane]

And that is why some of the nations there want involvement

[The Iron Fist]

Anyone who has studied either of the World Wars recognizes the undeniable parallels between todays world and the days leading up to those wars. The world is becoming a very scary place very fast. Kind of frustrating that at the same time that China is landgrabbing that the UK is kissing its backside. David Cameron might be the worst PM in British history.

[ringpriest]

It's really going to get their panties in a twist now that the US is going to keep doing it. Not anything China can do about it though. Hopefully the US is on guard against some kind of face saving stunt, like trying to force down a P-8 Poseidon (in a redo of what happened in 2001). Something like that is what the US needs to be on guard for.

This is long over due. The US should go one step further and destroy any reefs that could be built on in the future and nip Chinese ambitions in the bud. The nine-dash-line is the most transparently bullshit land grab in the world today. In a conflict, they wouldn't help much - the US, Australian and Japanese navies could easily destroy them all. But before that, they're very useful for china.

<nice map snipped for size>

Those islands give China unfortunate reach. We'll see how they fair after a few typhoon seasons. They aren't very far above sea level after all.

I've got mixed feelings on this... but my biggest concern is that the USN may be risking a war with the PLAN well before its ready for one.

The Navy is giving some strong indications that its moving in the right direction (or being forced to do so): actually doing shock testing on new construction, teaching celestial navigation to midshipmen again, buying more Super Hornets, keeping (and even upgrading) CIWS, and starting to get serious about ASW again. But at the same time, it's still a long, long way from being ready for 21st Century warfare and continues to support hideously expensive and virtually useless systems like the F-35 and LCS, while continuing to embrace a mentality that is the near-direct opposite of Sun Tzu: assuming that they'll win without a fight, while simultaneously being unable or unwilling to engage in one.

The real "stunt" I would worry about would be the PLA try to sink a US vessel exercising the freedom of the seas; if successful, they'd scream bloody murder over our incompetent shiphandling skills, and deny everything while rescuing the crew. That would send a clear message if successful, but the Chinese are just as capable of screwing up or misreading responses as anyone else.

It would indeed be hilarious (and very indicative of lack of Chinese capabilities) if all the strife over the islands was rendered irrelevant by a couple of hurricanes.

[Independent voter]

Looking at a map, the islands are so far away from China it's ridiculous that they say they have a claim. Vietnam or the Philippines are much, much closer.

[Combatbutler]

Looking at a map, the islands are so far away from China it's ridiculous that they say they have a claim. Vietnam or the Philippines are much, much closer.

Well they build those Islands, so of course they belong to them. It is a landgrab, that much is certain, the question is, how much are the nations there wiling to go to stop it.

[Independent voter]

Well they build those Islands, so of course they belong to them. It is a landgrab, that much is certain, the question is, how much are the nations there wiling to go to stop it.

You could pile up a bunch of sand off the coast of Santa Barbara, California, it doesn't mean you own it. Proximity should account for something.

[Deleted]

You could pile up a bunch of sand off the coast of Santa Barbara, California, it doesn't mean you own it. Proximity should account for something.

Only the size of your stick and willingness to use it matter in these matters. (or your opponents desire to not use their stick).

You can own anything you want as long as nobody can kick or otherwise force you out.

[Rukh]

Well they build those Islands, so of course they belong to them. It is a landgrab, that much is certain, the question is, how much are the nations there wiling to go to stop it.

Unfortunately artificially built islands don't give them a claim on sea space. Natural land gets a 12-mile ocean zone but artificial islands get none. According to international maritime law, the US is perfectly in their right as these are still international waters.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone who has studied either of the World Wars recognizes the undeniable parallels between todays world and the days leading up to those wars. The world is becoming a very scary place very fast. Kind of frustrating that at the same time that China is landgrabbing that the UK is kissing its backside. David Cameron might be the worst PM in British history.

Disagreements over land claims have existed since the concept of countries. Literally for all time. So yeah, there were disagreements during world wars, but there were also disagreements during not world wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_areas_disputed_by_Canada_and_the_United_States

Yet I doubt the US nor Canada will declare war to resolve their claim.

[Caliph]

I understand the need to have international waters be free and all and the fact that china is moving aggressively into international waters and "claiming" them somehow needs to be addressed. it's just whenever America is involved internationally things go bad. We, the USA, nearly started a nuclear war because of missiles in cuba yet we had missiles in turkey. Currently we have bases all over asia near to Russia and China. Yet they're not threatening nuclear war over it.

Let the UN get involved instead of the American cowboy. I love America but the foreign policy we sow reaps very nasty fruit and dreadfully shameful.

[Rukh]

I understand the need to have international waters be free and all and the fact that china is moving aggressively into international waters and "claiming" them somehow needs to be addressed. it's just whenever America is involved internationally things go bad. We, the USA, nearly started a nuclear war because of missiles in cuba yet we had missiles in turkey. Currently we have bases all over asia near to Russia and China. Yet they're not threatening nuclear war over it.

Let the UN get involved instead of the American cowboy. I love America but the foreign policy we sow reaps very nasty fruit and dreadfully shameful.

I find that a very biased view of the Cuba incident. We were constantly on the bring of nuclear war. Russia thought they could call the US bluff, they're the ones that pushed the act that could have caused nuclear war. The US just didn't step down, so Russia decided it was a bad idea.

With respect to this current situation, the US isn't doing anything but obeying international law. We're within our rights to sail our boats in international waters, and those, by international law, are international waters.

[Deleted]

I understand the need to have international waters be free and all and the fact that china is moving aggressively into international waters and "claiming" them somehow needs to be addressed. it's just whenever America is involved internationally things go bad. We, the USA, nearly started a nuclear war because of missiles in cuba yet we had missiles in turkey. Currently we have bases all over asia near to Russia and China. Yet they're not threatening nuclear war over it.

Let the UN get involved instead of the American cowboy. I love America but the foreign policy we sow reaps very nasty fruit and dreadfully shameful.

It's really no different then the US having a military base of dubious legality in Cuba. Cuba doesn't (or didn't not sure how it is now) them there, but words mean nothing if you cant enforce them.

Similarly now china is building a military base of dubious legality, but what is anyone gonna do? local countries don't have the firepower to do anything about it and countries that do have strong economic ties with china to keep them at bay.

Then 10 years form now it will just be accepted as the status quo.

[zenkai]

Chinese are looking for any excuse to start a war, it will happen as soon as their economy crumbles when all their fake numbers get exposed

[Deleted]

Chinese are looking for any excuse to start a war, it will happen as soon as their economy crumbles when all their fake numbers get exposed

Why would they want a war and with who?

[Caliph]

I find that a very biased view of the Cuba incident. We were constantly on the bring of nuclear war. Russia thought they could call the US bluff, they're the ones that pushed the act that could have caused nuclear war. The US just didn't step down, so Russia decided it was a bad idea.

With respect to this current situation, the US isn't doing anything but obeying international law. We're within our rights to sail our boats in international waters, and those, by international law, are international waters.

you can't deny Russia was doing what we were doing. we had bases and nukes in turkey and Europe they wanted something equally close. to me it's the same thing.

This is a Chinese land grab no doubt but so were many of our excursions in the past 117 years. It started with the 1898 Spanish American war and continues.

i'm so past American brinksmanship. It never ends.

Hubris.

[Rukh]

you can't deny Russia was doing what we were doing. we had bases and nukes in turkey and Europe they wanted something equally close. to me it's the same thing.

This is a Chinese land grab no doubt but so were many of our excursions in the past 117 years. It started with the 1898 Spanish American war and continues.

i'm so past American brinksmanship. It never ends.

Hubris.

I think it's a little different when its the US providing protection to allies. We haven't annexed any countries in the middle east have we?

Also, China's not looking for war. They're looking for better positioning for themselves in defense and strategic positioning, but so are all countries. China doesn't want a war with the US nor anyone else at the moment.

[ringpriest]

I find that a very biased view of the Cuba incident. We were constantly on the bring of nuclear war. Russia thought they could call the US bluff, they're the ones that pushed the act that could have caused nuclear war. The US just didn't step down, so Russia decided it was a bad idea.

With respect to this current situation, the US isn't doing anything but obeying international law. We're within our rights to sail our boats in international waters, and those, by international law, are international waters.

Fun (for 'omg, we're all going to die' values of "fun") bit of information that's recently surfaced about the Cuban missile crisis: at the height of the crisis, the US Air Force (nuclear) missile squadrons on Okinawa were sent (apparently by mistake) authenticated launch orders for a mix of Russian and Chinese target cities, including requesting and receiving (again, apparently via some sort of mix up) confirmation of said authenticated launch orders. Fortunately for the continuance of human civilization, they (barely) declined to fire as they were "only" at DefCon 2.

Which just goes to show the potential for how readily such confrontations can spiral out of control.

[Combatbutler]

Chinese are looking for any excuse to start a war, it will happen as soon as their economy crumbles when all their fake numbers get exposed

They are not trying to start a war, they are trying to get vast amounts of resources and are currently figuring out if they can get away with it. Though these kinds of games can turn out quite dangerous.