Maximizing Arcane AOE in Kilrogg's visions without affecting single-target much.

[Deleted]

I'm thinking Nether Tempest on 4 Arcane Charges might be cool. I figured that towards the end of the fight I start agroing a lot of crap and the best course of action is running about with Arcane Explosion, which leaves little room for anything else, while Supernova has a short range (2 yards smaller) and it's not available that much in there so while it does offer a good utility on interrupting it's easy to have it unavailable or to miss hitting most of them for most of the time. By the way, I figured unloading the charges with Arcane Barrage might be suboptimal in there since AE might become better after a point of large number of ads and it would leave room for 4XAC more often if NT is used. I'm running it with a hunter that can't do massive damage either in there so..

Any advice/opinion is appreciated.

[Zulandia]

I normally go down with a marks hunter and have no issues reaching 20 stacks at all. If you are struggling SN can be worth picking up for the knockup to interrupt the imps but it's extremely easy to get 20 stacks even with two heavy single target classes down there if you're not making it it's far more likely you are getting hit by one of the mechanics than you are running the wrong talents. Additionally for what it's worth I have found it's generally better to just continue single target down there over AE spam (after a few stacks you can one shot mobs).

You'll be sacrificing a ton of damage once you are outside of the vision (which is far more important since as I said visions are super easy) to pick up either NT or orb.

[Deleted]

I normally go down with a marks hunter and have no issues reaching 20 stacks at all. If you are struggling SN can be worth picking up for the knockup to interrupt the imps but it's extremely easy to get 20 stacks even with two heavy single target classes down there if you're not making it it's far more likely you are getting hit by one of the mechanics than you are running the wrong talents. Additionally for what it's worth I have found it's generally better to just continue single target down there over AE spam (after a few stacks you can one shot mobs).

You'll be sacrificing a ton of damage once you are outside of the vision (which is far more important since as I said visions are super easy) to pick up either NT or orb.

I believe the main mechanic that can kill you is the imps cast since mistress' can just be avoided as well as the puddles, unless a lot of the fiends explode simultaneously. But another thing that can kill you is the melee damage. Single targetting is important yes, and I know at least 5 to 8 stacks must be taken with single target for sure. But It seems after those first stacks AOEing might be better.

But you might be right though. Purely single targetting might be an idea.

Or a small combo, e.g. single targetting with some AOE on the side.

[Deleted]

Huh? Arcane explosion is more than enough to wipe the imps for 20 stacks. I wouldn't sacrifice UM for NT just for that phase. Sounds like your dps partner just needs to up their game.

[Deleted]

This is on mythic by the way. Arcane Explosion on its own doesn't seem extremely good unless it goes after the 14-15 stacks maybe.

[Deleted]

Yeah I was talking about mythic too, you said you run with a hunter? I have a ret paladin with me so perhaps the burst is different between the two. I know that AE is enough for us at least, he gets them low and I finish them off. After a few stacks it ramps up so much you don't really need to worry.

[Zelendria]

No one gives a shit what damage you do inside. It's what you do outside with the buff that matters therefore you sacrifice no ST whatsoever unless it's a farm boss.

[Deleted]

This is strictly about getting the buf, not ranking.

[Zelendria]

Doing big damage isn't the issue you need a class that can tank damage and deal burst damage but without dropping aggro. The easiest times I've had doing visions has been with a Rogue or DK. I've done it with Boomies, Monks and Hunters too, and they are considerably worse IMO against the first two classes.

Rogues are especially good with Evasion, Smoke Bomb, talented Feint, glyphed Cloak... Christ their toolkit for survival on this kind of thing is stupid good.
In Combat spec they can tank stuff for ages and hold aggro really well because of their damage.

Also make sure you're not actually dying to the big adds.
Make sure your partner knows that ST is king for the first couple of waves of imps.

[Deleted]

We got good 'melee tank' setups for the final groups and we try to swing it on the first one We currently plan to go fast to 10 stacks with ST and then whatever feels right. That way we might see a few ads on low health and do some further AOE or not, etc.

[Nico3337]

On mythic i just single target adds until I have around 8-10 stacks and then i start AE, also going with mm Hunter :-)

[Deleted]

The single target was low, it tended to scatter the ads around the room and if I started AOEing, I started being the tank and dying from melee. I ended up calling it out to get a melee tanking in there. I don't even do the visions now though I could be if another ranged didn't.

I just think it's obvious this part of the fight is designed and best suited for a "soft melee tank", ideally a retri or dk or warrior, or also a rogue or feral.

On entry gear you can't easily swing it with clothies playing tank.

[Deleted]

The single target was low, it tended to scatter the ads around the room and if I started AOEing, I started being the tank and dying from melee. I ended up calling it out to get a melee tanking in there. I don't even do the visions now though I could be if another ranged didn't.

I just think it's obvious this part of the fight is designed and best suited for a "soft melee tank", ideally a retri or dk or warrior, or also a rogue or feral.

On entry gear you can't easily swing it with clothies playing tank.

You have greater invis for that. I usually go in as frost and if i get to much aggro which happens inevitable just drop GInvis and repeat. It also helps the healer if u do it while an big ae.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it wasn't any big help.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it wasn't any big help.

Assuming your raid sends in the best possible people for the job i dont get how you get aggro after hitting GInvis. Maybe someone other (as your partner) is better suited.
Also i think i dont have to remeber but there are many things that could help down there. Many classes have some sort of mass-cc, taunt, stun whatever. Mages are on the lower side so you should be sided by one with better control.

[Deleted]

Yes, we did find a melee to tank in there eventually so that combo was dropped entirely.


It generally seems optimal with a melee 'tank' setup of that form on entry gear.

[Zelendria]

Aggro drop CD's or immunities that cause a temporary aggro switch are as much a hindrance as they are a help in visions if you, your healer or partner isn't aware of what is going to happen.
You use one of these types of CD and you cause a mob switch onto your partner. Depending how far into the phase you are they might not be able to take it, so they use their similar style mechanic transferring everything back to you or the healer. Someone is going to die whether it's you, them or the healer. Once one of you dies it's not long before the other two do.

This is why Rogues are so good at it. Evasion doesn't drop any aggro the mobs just miss. Talented Feint drops no aggro nor does Glyphed Cloak of Shadows.
By the time you're pulling aggro from the Rogue you're doing a lot of damage or at the point of using SN and you've got your 20 stacks.

[Deleted]

Generally I get a few stacks from ST an imp, then arcane explosion as it will start doing 30% on all of them. SN for burst.

[Polygonx]

This is on mythic by the way. Arcane Explosion on its own doesn't seem extremely good unless it goes after the 14-15 stacks maybe.

You're not the one supposed to do the dmg inside, your partner is, you're responsible for the single target once you get out, so if you're for some reason not partnered with a Combat Rogue, Unholy DK, Enhance Shaman or Warrior inside, then your guild should highly consider changing the vision setup.

[Deleted]

I usually go in with an Arcane Mage (Unholy DK myself) with unglyphed Army of the Dead.

It tanks everything while me and the mage aoe it down.