Shadow: worth to break 4p set for higher ilev gear?

[Deleted]

Just a question for you shadow priests... according to this page for AS bis pieces:

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?t=7642#p65289

The difference between 2p and 4p t18 set tier is worth about 80 "points". In that case, do you think it's actually worth, let's say, swap 2 hc set pieces (i only got 2 mythic ones) for 2 mythic ones? Always according to that website, the 2 pieces I want to wear (one mythic wf and one with socket) are about 200 points better than the 2 hc tier ones... so if I consider the 4p bonus set only 80, I would be actually gaining dps.

Thing is... how are these 80 points calculated? I mean, premonition uptime depends on our talent... with mindbender we have a higher uptime, with insanity less... so what are these 80 points based on?

What do you guys think... worth breaking the set or no? Thank you!

[Deleted]

Both Mindbender and Shadowfiend allow for same Premonition's uptime. They both have 20second cooldown.

4set provides 20% multistrike with uptime roughly 2/3. It is about 13.4 % multistrike in average.
> 1% = 66 multistrike rating
> 13.4% = 884.4 multistrike rating
> PP value of 4set would be 614 if calculated this way.

And the deltas on posted page are ok with that.

Pious Cowl:
717.7070 = 352.0000 + 230.9546 + 134.7524
1348.6609 = 717.7070 + 630.9539 {4P T18}

There is +630 PP with 4P T18 mentioned.

[Deleted]

Both Mindbender and Shadowfiend allow for same Premonition's uptime. They both have 20second cooldown.

4set provides 20% multistrike with uptime roughly 2/3. It is about 13.4 % multistrike in average.
> 1% = 66 multistrike rating
> 13.4% = 884.4 multistrike rating
> PP value of 4set would be 614 if calculated this way.

And the deltas on posted page are ok with that.

Pious Cowl:
717.7070 = 352.0000 + 230.9546 + 134.7524
1348.6609 = 717.7070 + 630.9539 {4P T18}

There is +630 PP with 4P T18 mentioned.

You cant compare that... you are comparing a piece set alone without any bonus vs a piece that gives 2+4 set bonus, of course it's more. You should compare:

1268.2961 = 717.7070 + 550.5891 {2P T18}
1348.6609 = 717.7070 + 630.9539 {4P T18}

And thats 80PP as I said in my original post. About premonition you're right. Still it means it only gives 80PP, so I guess having 2p set + 2 mythic pieces is actually better than keeping 4p? Anyone?

[Tehterokkar]

4pc still has more burst value for priority targets, especially if you get any sort of other proc(weapon, trinket, pre-legendary ring).

[Deleted]

You cant compare that... you are comparing a piece set alone without any bonus vs a piece that gives 2+4 set bonus, of course it's more. You should compare:

1268.2961 = 717.7070 + 550.5891 {2P T18}
1348.6609 = 717.7070 + 630.9539 {4P T18}

And thats 80PP as I said in my original post. About premonition you're right. Still it means it only gives 80PP, so I guess having 2p set + 2 mythic pieces is actually better than keeping 4p? Anyone?

2set 550.5891 PP and 4set 630.9539 PP for over 1180PP total. I am sure it is meant this way.

First value is for equiping 2nd set item if you have one equipped. Next value is for equipping 4th set item when you have three set items equipped.

[Deleted]

Indeed, the values given to the set bonuses on that H2P page are;
2piece = 550.5891
2piece + 4piece = 630.9539

so the 4piece alone is worth 630.9539-550.5891= 80.3648
For it to be worth changing from 4piece tier to 2piece tier and offpieces, the offpieces you choose, combined, must be 80.3648 better than the raw stats on the combined tier pieces you replace.

[Deleted]

2set 550.5891 PP and 4set 630.9539 PP for over 1180PP total. I am sure it is meant this way.

No, you are wrong. How can you say that? It's math. The 2p bonus is 550, 4p (meaning 2p bonus + premonition) is 630 OVERALL, not 1180.

So premonition buff alone is worth only 80PP.

Proof? T18 head: 1457.2061 = 826.2522 + 630.9539 {4P T18}

If it was like you said (so 1180PP total for bonuses), it would have a much higher value (since the piece alone with raw stats is worth 826), it would go over 2000PP instead it's listed at 1457.

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed, the values given to the set bonuses on that H2P page are;
2piece = 550.5891
4piece = 630.9539

For it to be worth changing from 4piece tier to 2piece tier and offpieces, the offpieces you choose, combined, must be 630.9539 better than the raw stats on the combined tier pieces you replace.

Read above. The value for 4p is not premonition alone but 2p bonus PLUS premonition. How can you guys not see that?

[DonkeyKongSSJ69]

If you're so sure, then just go sim it yourself with 4pc and then with replacing 2 pieces.

By your logic, ~16% multistrike is only worth 80pp or 115.1742 multistrike rating. I can tell you that I don't get 16% multistrike from 115 rating otherwise I'd be way over 100%.

[Deleted]

No, you are wrong. How can you say that? It's math. The 2p bonus is 550, 4p (meaning 2p bonus + premonition) is 630 OVERALL, not 1180.

So premonition buff alone is worth only 80PP.

Proof? T18 head: 1457.2061 = 826.2522 + 630.9539 {4P T18}

If it was like you said (so 1180PP total for bonuses), it would have a much higher value (since the piece alone with raw stats is worth 826), it would go over 2000PP instead it's listed at 1457.

- - - Updated - - -



Read above. The value for 4p is not premonition alone but 2p bonus PLUS premonition. How can you guys not see that?

Nah, those 2p and 4p values are seperate.

That total value is for gaining 1 set bonus. Because it gives the difference between that piece and another piece. It is not possible to gain or losses both set bonusses switching out one item. That is why the set bonus values are given seperate for 2p and 4p.

[Deleted]

If you're so sure, then just go sim it yourself with 4pc and then with replacing 2 pieces.

By your logic, ~16% multistrike is only worth 80pp or 115.1742 multistrike rating. I can tell you that I don't get 16% multistrike from 115 rating otherwise I'd be way over 100%.

I'm not saying im 100% sure but I'm just following the logic. I mean look:

(M) (T18) Pious Cowl (725)
Token / Hellfire Citadel: Kormrok / Mythic
826.2522 = 405.0000 + 266.3564 + 154.8958
1376.8413 = 826.2522 + 550.5891 {2P T18}
1457.2061 = 826.2522 + 630.9539 {4P T18}

What woud be the logic in listing 4p t18 meaning just premonition without the 2p bonus? You CANT have premonition without having also the 2p bonus. So it would make absolutely zero sense to show it like that, if you were right they should have 826 + 550 + 630.

[Socialhealer]

i don't even play a priest but i can see 20% multistrike for 15 seconds is going to be worth more than 80PP, i'm pretty sure the value of the 4 set is 630, and 2 set 550.

not the 2p 550, and 4p 80 you're thinking it is.

[Deleted]

Read above. The value for 4p is not premonition alone but 2p bonus PLUS premonition. How can you guys not see that?

Actually I believe the 630pp for the 4piece bonus alone is correct. It's my understanding that the BiS list linked gives you the various values based on what that item adds to your character. Since 1 item cannot simultaneously give the 2piece and the 4piece it given the value for each seperately.
So using the head for example;
826.2522 is the value of equipping that item
1376.8413 = 826.2522 + 550.5891 is the value of equipping the item if it also means you gain the 2pc
1457.2061 = 826.2522 + 630.9539 is the value of equipping the item if it also means you gain the 4pc

similarly if you were looking at the list and already had 4pc, the 5th piece would just be the basic value, you wouldn't give it the 4pc value just because you already had 4pc ^^

EDIT;

Also, premonition is 20% multistrike, to obtain 20% multistrike you need 20*66=1320 multistrike rating (because 66 multistrike gives you 1%).

Multistrike, in that link, is given a value of 0.6946

0.6946*1320 = 916.872.

Now consider that the premonition buff will have approx. 66% uptime from sims.

916.827*0.66= 605.10582

Which is slightly less than the amount suggested (630) but probably based on the exact premonition uptime. I think it's certainly reasonable. And indeed a lot closer than the 80pp suggested elsewhere