Protection legion Discussion

[Beardyface]

Weren't prot paladins grossly overpowered for pretty much the entirety of MoP? I did not play much of WoD, but I seem to remember prot paladins facerolling their way to the top of the dps charts in almost every raid. And when I watched toweliee he was always topping meters by a huge margin. And on top of that they also had crazy utility and defensive cooldowns that could straight up ignore mechanics in ToT. And they were just left that way. So I really doubt we'll see any nerfs anytime soon.

No. Prot Palaldins were the weakest tank in MoP until HFC. You didn't see them around a whole lot in HM and BRF. They were strong in HFC, but not so much that they were ripping threat off of tanks 10 ilvls higher while simply performing their rotation on a single target. That's what's happening now. Our old Prot Pally is in another guild now, but came back on mumble to report that he co-tanks with a warrior and has to keep delaying his rotation to avoid overtaking the warriors threat on single target. That's insane. That also lines up with other reports I've been reading about Prot Pally DPS/threat.

[Agromat]

This may have been talked about, but the level 90 talents:

Which do you prefer? Into the Frey or Vengeance?

I have been using Vengeance, and it seems like such a great rage saver, you can kind of always use Focused Rage, and then use Ignore Pain. However, those of you using Into the Frey, what are the benefits over Vengance?

I personally don't "prefer" either of them - I expect I'll use them in different situations. Into the Fray seems good for AOE tanking situations, like Mythic+ 5 mans, especially if you haven't geared heavily for Haste. In my testing, I've enjoyed pairing it with Renewed Fury instead of Ultimatum. Since you're not running Vengeance, you don't lose anything by using IP at less than max value, so you can just tap IP every 6 seconds with whatever rage you have to keep the Renewed Fury damage buff active. Plus, RF increases the damage of your AOE abilities too, not just Shield Slam.

Bottom line: It's not a question of finding the best talent, or even choosing your favorite. It's about understanding what each of them can do for you, and choosing ones that provide capabilities you find effective in the content you're doing and a play style you enjoy.

PS. *Fray

[Alaexaender]

Though DK and Paladin dmg is currently WAY overpowered. I'll be shocked if we don't see a nerf soon. I raided with a 715 ilvl pally tank that outdamaged everyone on AoE. Even 725+ toons. That's just nuts. I can't imagine they're going to leave it like that.

Remember that part of this is the artifact. Tanks' artifacts don't focus much on damage, while for most dps classes the artifacts are enormous parts of their damage. Due to this, tanks have an advantage over dps currently.

[deadmanfred]

co-tanks with a warrior and has to keep delaying his rotation to avoid overtaking the warriors threat on single target. That's insane. That also lines up with other reports I've been reading about Prot Pally DPS/threat.

Last week I got a rank #4 for dps as a prot warrior on Mythic Archi, My cotank was a blood DK playing his off spec which he hadn't even practiced. He was consistently pulling threat off me. What was going on was when I'd actually tank I'd use all my rage for ignore pain/block and apparently that wasn't enough to hold threat. I was using booming voice and avatar, tried switching talents for higher threat when not using thise cds, but it didn't help much and my dps took a huge dive. It's really weird for me since I normally rank like that for dps, and I'm the one having to manage not overtaking threat.

Our active mitigation not doing any damage is kinda a fatal flaw in threat imo(the extra SS damage from block was a nice start). I'd like for IP to be maybe merged with focus rage, idk.

[Flaks]

Threat just needs to be upped massively baseline for prot wars and bears along with better rage gen on auto attacks. Otherwise I think prot is in an amazing place.

[Cylunaria]

Last week I got a rank #4 for dps as a prot warrior on Mythic Archi, My cotank was a blood DK playing his off spec which he hadn't even practiced. He was consistently pulling threat off me. What was going on was when I'd actually tank I'd use all my rage for ignore pain/block and apparently that wasn't enough to hold threat. I was using booming voice and avatar, tried switching talents for higher threat when not using thise cds, but it didn't help much and my dps took a huge dive. It's really weird for me since I normally rank like that for dps, and I'm the one having to manage not overtaking threat.

Our active mitigation not doing any damage is kinda a fatal flaw in threat imo(the extra SS damage from block was a nice start). I'd like for IP to be maybe merged with focus rage, idk.

I'd appreciate a link to these supposed logs (I don't see any prot warriors in the top 10 of M archie co-tanking with a DK that is doing even more damage than them), because I have yet to feel these massive threat issues everyone seems to claim to have even though I am co-tanking with a paladin solely focused on damage.

[Jeezy911]

One thing is for sure, Prot is tops for speedrunning 5 mans, the mobility is awesome.

[Deleted]

I think Inspiring Presence is bugged inside garrisons/stormshield etc. Heals me for 91k hps. Got 149 stacks (745%+ damage) on tank dummy.

VIDEO: (Can't post links yet) youtu . be/tXp09_Z_llk

[Beardyface]

I think Inspiring Presence is bugged inside garrisons/stormshield etc. Heals me for 91k hps. Got 149 stacks (745%+ damage) on tank dummy.

VIDEO: (Can't post links yet) youtu . be/tXp09_Z_llk

That's the healing you're doing to the Healing Combat Dummy triggering your leech. The Healing Combat Dummy does a TON of damage to itself every second, and your InsP heals it for 3% of that amount, which triggers your leech. If you watch it you can see it heal itself for over a million every second.

[Deleted]

That's the healing you're doing to the Healing Combat Dummy triggering your leech. The Healing Combat Dummy does a TON of damage to itself every second, and your InsP heals it for 3% of that amount, which triggers your leech. If you watch it you can see it heal itself for over a million every second.

Aaah. Thanks. That explains it.

[Henriksson]

This didn't work at all for me unless I had my mouse over the target. Not sure why.

This, however, works great:

#showtooltip Intercept
/use [@mouseover,help,nodead][@target,harm,nodead][@targettarget,harm,nodead] Intercept

My only problem with it is that it won't work if I actually target a friendly player and they have no target, and if they do, I Intercept their target but don't then subsequently attack the target they were targeting.

I am using two seperate binds, a lot of binds were made free with legion after all.

Q:
Regular intercept for enemies, not even a macro. If you wanted to you could make it a macro that includes a mouseover prio in it, but I don't.

ShiftQ:
#showtooltip Intercept
/targetfriendplayer
/cast [@mouseover,help,exists][]intercept
/targetlasttarget


It will intercept your mouseover if it's friendly, if you do not have a mouseover target then it will charge the closest nearby friendly player. Gotta get that free rage, girls!

[deadmanfred]

I'd appreciate a link to these supposed logs (I don't see any prot warriors in the top 10 of M archie co-tanking with a DK that is doing even more damage than them), because I have yet to feel these massive threat issues everyone seems to claim to have even though I am co-tanking with a paladin solely focused on damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ne&view=events

I've since moved down to 16, hopefully killing him again tonight for a higher ranking The blood DK named shield less actually less dps then me overall. It's when avatar/booming voice was down that I had threat issues, mostly in the last phase.

[Cylunaria]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ne&view=events

I've since moved down to 16, hopefully killing him again tonight for a higher ranking The blood DK named shield less actually less dps then me overall. It's when avatar/booming voice was down that I had threat issues, mostly in the last phase.

I find it even more unbelievable that you would have threat issues 2+ minutes already into a fight (granted resetting in P3, but even then). You went down with a deathcaller yeah? I assume that means you didn't try to start tanking archie until after first swap. Which means you are having threat problems after already having a base amount to work with. I just don't see how it's possible. I also didn't see you lose aggro on the replay until time for swap on source, but I suppose that doesn't mean the DK couldn't have been leading threat.

[Wraeith]

Aspiring prot player with a few questions about rage generation if anyone wouldn't mind answer. I've scoured online a bit but couldn't find anything concrete.

I know the RFDT debate has raged on for a while, but I assume you gain the full benefit of RFDT when the damage you take is absorbed by say a critical block or Ignore Pain?

On that note, how does that play into our defensive CDs like Demoralizing Shout and Shield Wall? If I had to guess, I would wager that the rage generation is only calculated after mitigation but before absorption.

[Cylunaria]

Aspiring prot player with a few questions about rage generation if anyone wouldn't mind answer. I've scoured online a bit but couldn't find anything concrete.

I know the RFDT debate has raged on for a while, but I assume you gain the full benefit of RFDT when the damage you take is absorbed by say a critical block or Ignore Pain?

On that note, how does that play into our defensive CDs like Demoralizing Shout and Shield Wall? If I had to guess, I would wager that the rage generation is only calculated after mitigation but before absorption.

You are correct for the most part. Blocking does not count as an absorb, blocked damage does not count towards RFDT.

[PinDrop]

PS: Bubble Wand is important, obviously it won't work without it

Oh lord, that wand. Back in Highmaul the guild I was raiding with at the time had a Pally tank who was squishy as hell. We had a full investigation going one day as to why he was constantly taking so much damage, and eventually found out that he had macroed that wand into ALL of his abilities. That was a fun day.

[deadmanfred]

I find it even more unbelievable that you would have threat issues 2+ minutes already into a fight (granted resetting in P3, but even then). You went down with a deathcaller yeah? I assume that means you didn't try to start tanking archie until after first swap. Which means you are having threat problems after already having a base amount to work with. I just don't see how it's possible. I also didn't see you lose aggro on the replay until time for swap on source, but I suppose that doesn't mean the DK couldn't have been leading threat.

I don't think I lost threat much on the Kill, kinda had a strat worked out to taunt every now and then to keep my threat up with a 2x focus rage SS during the threat buff. I was doing M Xhul last night and my co-tank, also a DK, Was ripping threat off Xhul when I'd switched to tank the green add. Their cleave is just that much stronger I suppose.

[Breccia]

On that note, how does that play into our defensive CDs like Demoralizing Shout and Shield Wall? If I had to guess, I would wager that the rage generation is only calculated after mitigation but before absorption.

To the best of my knowledge this is correct. Last Stand was a bone of contention earlier, but no longer. Reducing the damage you take and/or absorb, by ANY method, lowers your Rage generation.

[Deleted]

So, I was worried about Prot, but it was somewhat mis-placed.

2 Questions. Does Inspiring Presence affect you? or just your allies? & Is ignore Pain as OP in normal content as it is in TBC Timeless?

[Deleted]

Oh lord, that wand. Back in Highmaul the guild I was raiding with at the time had a Pally tank who was squishy as hell. We had a full investigation going one day as to why he was constantly taking so much damage, and eventually found out that he had macroed that wand into ALL of his abilities. That was a fun day.

Ayy lmao, it did take up a global cooldown earlier tho didn't it?

It doesn't know though