1. #9581
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    won't know until tuning is over
    Pretty much this, I'm here saying Arms is strong but I'd be speculating quite blindly to take any guess, especially considering I fully expect more tuning to take place. All I can say is as Arms is on the PTR right now it's very strong and capable, far more so than on live servers.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  2. #9582
    I just wonder why PvP teamplates for Arms wasnt toutch at all, Arms Dps in PvP on PTR is kinda ridiculus and if they wont adres it Arms will be Op at begining of seson, problem is that most likly after OP start we will get hit by nerf hammer to the ground

  3. #9583
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Arms getting buffed is an understatement tho, it's going to get nerfed so hard after the patch hits you watch.
    %100 this. Arms is " NO FUN ALLOWED" central.

  4. #9584
    Blizzard does tend to overshoot changes (see Draught going from wicked OP the entire tier to literally bottom 3 worst trinkets among 30-50 options for both specs) in both directions, so all we can do is fingers crossed. I think Arms will benefit greatly from most of the tuning coming from this live last week of NH with short execute phases and a nerfed t19 -- so the hit won't be as hard.

    The problem with asking Arms vs. Fury right now is that Fury is still extremely strong going into t20, so any moderate to large Arms nerf will cement it ahead. This isn't an EN scenario where Fury was literally bottom 3 so despite any kind of nerf, it was easy to assume Arms would remain ahead.

    I think Archi said it best/most logically, they want more people to play Arms which is the point of all these changes and iterations so it just wouldn't be logical to send the spec into the dumpster afterwards, intentionally anyway (they "unintentionally" do this all the time though). Here's my hope for Arms tuning in general:

    1) Fervor of Battle reduced to 60% bonus (from 80%). This talent needs an adjustment, it's a massive damage increase on a QoL-themed tier.
    2) Trauma reduced to 20% damage (from 25%). This talent is just a bit overtuned as is rend, both should be brought down just a tad.
    3) Rend duration increased to 10s. See above, this also serves as a nerf and a QoL change though - 8s rend feels too hectic, 15s too long.
    4) Leggo helm reduced to 5% damage buff under bladestorm per stack (down from 6%). Helm is too good, but the second t20 is gone it is trash. Small nerf.
    5) Tier set reduced to 5 mortal strikes (down from 6). Tier set is just a bit too good, awesome theme/design though. Small nerf.
    6) Shattered Defenses and Executioner's Precision reduced to 50% damage buffs (down from 60% and 75% respectively), but baseline MS damage increased by 10%. This is something I've wanted to see for awhile. We have issues where multiple builds have slam/WW as priority over non-shattered defenses MS which just leads to a really boring rotation that rage starves frequently but is optimal. Reduce a bit of these crazy artifact multipliers for an overall net nerf, but buff base MS to solidify it as the highest dpr button press with this change and the small talent nerfs taken together. This will be an especially poignant nerf to execute phase which probably deserves one after the necessary but very massive buff to execute for rage sustain during execute.

    I'll be happy if we end up with something more precise and talent/artifact focused, and not something colossal and dumb like an across the board aura tweak of -10-20% that just causes so much talent collateral damage, m+ collateral damage, etc... These changes end up being a moderate net nerf, but not soul-crushing, they don't affect AoE too hard or much at all, and they shift dpr priority back to MS over WW/slam. Don't mess with the last talent tier at all, while OpS is looking strong going in -- the balance in the last tier is actually on point, all 3 have their uses (with ravager probably being the weakest).

    Ideally we end up with Arms being a bit ahead on ST and Fury still being a bit more optimal for M+ and AoE-centric fights; Fury will always be more versatile in these latter respects because of the flexibility of enrage vs. the rigidity of Colossus Smash as a mastery.
    Last edited by Anbokr; 2017-06-12 at 06:16 PM.

  5. #9585
    i like the righteousness, i really do. and still the only class that asks for self nerfs.....

  6. #9586
    Quote Originally Posted by cexspa View Post
    i like the righteousness, i really do. and still the only class that asks for self nerfs.....
    Yep pretty much, but with the mass asking and the obvious overtuning the nerfs are very much inevitable.

    So the ideal in pointing out "best" nerf areas is that they are more surgical and take suggestions to heart, and not just butcher with a generic -10% damage across the board that just causes so much collateral damage to m+ and the precarious talent balance on some of these tiers (disproportionate affect on many talents).

    If we were mages, rogues, locks, or hunters we'd keep our mouths shut or be advocating very loudly exclusively for buffs to underperforming talents/specs, but we are warriors :P. Since when did you see frost mages advocating for frost to be brought down to arcane/fire level hehe. It's always bring em up!

    Warriors have one of the most competitive communities between specs I believe which is where a lot of the overnerf calls stem from. You have die hard Fury warriors that just want to see Fury with a much bigger dick than arms, and you have the opposite case as well. They go to great lengths to get each other nerfed, almost like used car salesman badgering you constantly.

    Anyhow, I like to think over half my suggestions as just "talent polishing" making those tiers more competitive overall while not crushing the spec. And nerfing SD/EP in favor of buffing base MS is something I've wanted to see for awhile and makes a lot of sense for this iteration of Arms.
    Last edited by Anbokr; 2017-06-12 at 06:34 PM.

  7. #9587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    1) Fervor of Battle reduced to 60% bonus (from 80%). This talent needs an adjustment, it's a massive damage increase on a QoL-themed tier.
    2) Trauma reduced to 20% damage (from 25%). This talent is just a bit overtuned as is rend, both should be brought down just a tad.
    3) Rend duration increased to 10s. See above, this also serves as a nerf and a QoL change though - 8s rend feels too hectic, 15s too long.
    4) Leggo helm reduced to 5% damage buff under bladestorm per stack (down from 6%). Helm is too good, but the second t20 is gone it is trash. Small nerf.
    5) Tier set reduced to 5 mortal strikes (down from 6). Tier set is just a bit too good, awesome theme/design though. Small nerf.
    6) Shattered Defenses and Executioner's Precision reduced to 50% damage buffs (down from 60% and 75% respectively), but baseline MS damage increased by 10%. This is something I've wanted to see for awhile. We have issues where multiple builds have slam/WW as priority over non-shattered defenses MS which just leads to a really boring rotation that rage starves frequently but is optimal. Reduce a bit of these crazy artifact multipliers for an overall net nerf, but buff base MS to solidify it as the highest dpr button press with this change and the small talent nerfs taken together. This will be an especially poignant nerf to execute phase which probably deserves one after the necessary but very massive buff to execute for rage sustain during execute.
    Don't ever ask Blizzard for a nerf. We still have:
    1) Weak aoe;
    2) Single target debuff that grants us ~70% damage (compare it to enrage, which has no CD and is a buff on your character);
    3) Melee range Sweeping strikes (can't we have at least Outlaw rogue-like cleave?);
    4) Legendaries required to play properly (ring/helm/legs).

    These are just weak sides i could remember.

    P.S. Wasn't PS already nerfed on PTR? I think it gives 8% per point instead of 10% now.

  8. #9588
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    Yep pretty much, but with the mass asking and the obvious overtuning the nerfs are very much inevitable.

    So the ideal in pointing out "best" nerf areas is that they are more surgical and take suggestions to heart, and not just butcher with a generic -10% damage across the board that just causes so much collateral damage to m+ and the precarious talent balance on some of these tiers (disproportionate affect on many talents).

    If we were mages, rogues, locks, or hunters we'd keep our mouths shut or be advocating very loudly exclusively for buffs to underperforming talents/specs, but we are warriors :P. Since when did you see frost mages advocating for frost to be brought down to arcane/fire level hehe. It's always bring em up!

    Warriors have one of the most competitive communities between specs I believe which is where a lot of the overnerf calls stem from. You have die hard Fury warriors that just want to see Fury with a much bigger dick than arms, and you have the opposite case as well. They go to great lengths to get each other nerfed, almost like used car salesman badgering you constantly.

    Anyhow, I like to think over half my suggestions as just "talent polishing" making those tiers more competitive overall while not crushing the spec. And nerfing SD/EP in favor of buffing base MS is something I've wanted to see for awhile and makes a lot of sense for this iteration of Arms.
    You nailed it on the head. Many warriors are either pro Fury/Arms, with both sides never wanting the other spec to move ahead (no matter the difference). If one spec does get ahead the other immediatly calls for nerfs without ever considering where the spec may actually fit in the overall landscape of all specs/classes. I'm tired of having one spec be the "ST king" or "AoE King" because, as you saw in NH, encounters will make or break a spec. I'd love it if they could balance a spec using talents to adjust the AoE/cleave/st of a certain spec rather than having to switch to a completely different spec from encounter to encounter. I think Fury was a great example of this, it had the capability to talent into better Aoe/ST fights all throughout NH.

    As for the Rend vs FoB builds, they are actually fairly close it looks like according to some of the sims. Sure FoB is coming out on top by a bit but with some adjustments we could potentially have two builds which is f'ing amazing. If people want spam WW they can, if that's not for them they can use Rend.

  9. #9589
    Deleted
    Whoever is in the mindset arms vs fury is stupid the least. Before either you are a warrior, you should be able to play all 3 specs. Get off the stupidity that i am arms and screw fury and vice versa. You should play both depending on the encounter, take advantage of each spec's strengths.

  10. #9590
    Deleted
    the dumb nerfs begin : PS got reduced to 7% per rank on the ptr

    next step nerf MS and buff trauma or something ?

  11. #9591
    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    Whoever is in the mindset arms vs fury is stupid the least. Before either you are a warrior, you should be able to play all 3 specs. Get off the stupidity that i am arms and screw fury and vice versa. You should play both depending on the encounter, take advantage of each spec's strengths.
    we got almost exactly the same pc bro

    just picked up a 1070 tho feelsgoodman.



    i think blizzzard wont see any outcry for warriors being OP just yet, when tier 20 comes out its another story, we got the top 3 4-set bonus and its going to cleave off sweeping strike too, expect that part to be cut and maybe the mortal strikes reduced by 1-2 or just do 50% dmg.

    dont even dare posting a huge list of stuff we need to get nerfed because blizzard will take the whole thing double it and put it in a hotfix, mages cant wait to shit on us because they salty they didnt get buffed.

  12. #9592
    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    Whoever is in the mindset arms vs fury is stupid the least. Before either you are a warrior, you should be able to play all 3 specs. Get off the stupidity that i am arms and screw fury and vice versa. You should play both depending on the encounter, take advantage of each spec's strengths.
    Spec strengths got out of hand in Legion having some specs not worth the time or have a strength that does not benefit the raid. Looks at feral druids good single target damage dealer, blizzard confirmed, absolutly sucks at aoe and is mediocre at st and is a very complicated spec for no reward. The way encounters were made in NH favoured cleaving and aoe specs for most fights. Playing strengths is fine but you should never be the very best like no one ever was when you absolutly suck at the opposite thing

  13. #9593
    I'm not asking for a nerf, it's about managing expectations. The dps gain across the board in every scenario is so large that I just don't see how its going to remain in that state. They made arms more flexible, more consistent and increased the dps in all situations, especially the execute phase.

    With the right Legendary choices for the situation it's going to be an incredible performer next patch, with T20 equipped. I don't have a crystal ball to predict the overall standing of the spec among all classes in a few weeks, but I suspect it's going to be right up there.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  14. #9594
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I'm not asking for a nerf, it's about managing expectations. The dps gain across the board in every scenario is so large that I just don't see how its going to remain in that state. They made arms more flexible, more consistent and increased the dps in all situations, especially the execute phase.

    With the right Legendary choices for the situation it's going to be an incredible performer next patch, with T20 equipped. I don't have a crystal ball to predict the overall standing of the spec among all classes in a few weeks, but I suspect it's going to be right up there.
    It's 'going to be right up there'. What does that mean? Are warriors (or arms specifically) not allowed to be near the top of dps charts?

  15. #9595
    there is a sim list floating around with us looking like EN shadow priests :S

    and the blue post on the front page says there is still tuning being done, hope its more buffs to other specs and not a bat to the back of the knee

  16. #9596
    While arms is very strong, remember to not blindly trust those dumbass sim lists.

    Many of those spec APL's are completely out of date, and the rogue keepers are notorious for just purposely leaving the default setup as complete garbage to wade off fotm'rs and hope for buffs. Many other default profiles are also completely outdated or just sub-optimal.

  17. #9597
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    While arms is very strong, remember to not blindly trust those dumbass sim lists.

    Many of those spec APL's are completely out of date, and the rogue keepers are notorious for just purposely leaving the default setup as complete garbage to wade off fotm'rs and hope for buffs. Many other default profiles are also completely outdated or just sub-optimal.
    I tell people this every patch but its a lot easier for the general pleb to post a sim list and get mad than it is for them to do their own research and testing. I have no idea how others are performing right now which is why I'm reluctant to say anything as if it's set in stone, I'm just comparing my characters live performance to the PTR and seeing such a massive swing (specifically with T20).

    I really wish more people would take the time to just download the PTR, it does actually seem that many will ignore it entirely and then just jump on the first sim-list they fix their eyes on. And the sim-lists are never accurate as class comparisons, never have been, but people never learn.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #9598
    Deleted


    I see no issue here.

  19. #9599
    Deleted
    FR Arms put me off a lot, but those changes got me curious for arms. How does a standard arms "rotation" look like on ST ?

    Something like using CS on CD / on reset > huge ass MS, dump with Slam / FoV, and apply rend everytime the dot falls off, while not worrying about rage since we'll be flowing in it ?

  20. #9600
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptnTorpedo View Post
    FR Arms put me off a lot, but those changes got me curious for arms. How does a standard arms "rotation" look like on ST ?

    Something like using CS on CD / on reset > huge ass MS, dump with Slam / FoV, and apply rend everytime the dot falls off, while not worrying about rage since we'll be flowing in it ?
    There are two builds right now, Rend+Titanic Might or Trauma+Fervor of Battle. Check out the Arms compendium at the top of this forum for details on each.

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