Arms Legion Discussion

[Bigbazz]

Definitely a bit at the end of my tether with Arms tonight. Between being 200k dps ahead of 2nd place on damage sustaining 800k and on the next pull at the bottom at 400k, between back to back proc heaven, next pull chained periods of 25-30 seconds without tactition. And to top it all off you have Appendages which is varying by as much as 5mil damage on a pull to pull basis due to proc frequency and timing with this lower proc rate making RNG much more powerful (when it's good) in addition to much more painful (when it's not), it's really a horrible trinket to have to depend on.

I'm not saying I think there is a problem or bug with Arms, just that this week and tonights short raid specifically I've had the brunt of it. The biggest problem I have is that if you get good procs your dps will be fantastic even if you play quite poorly, you can RNG yourself to a 99% ranking even while making frequent mistakes. Meanwhile you can play perfectly without flaw and through RNG you will still do bad dps, sometimes genuinely and utterly bad damage output regardless of how well you play.

The extremes of the RNG with the spec show up too frequently, the spec is dictated far too much by lottery.

[Babaha]

Just got shoulders for 2 extra heroic leaps. Already have legs+ ring equipped, but think ill give it a shot in pair with legs on Botanist and Spellbender for adds, as well as m+ with SS. Anybody else tried out shoulder+pants combo? I do know that ring+legs is the way to go, but on heave cleave/demand aoe fights it seems shoulder+pants might lead to better results..

[lol]

Definitely a bit at the end of my tether with Arms tonight. Between being 200k dps ahead of 2nd place on damage sustaining 800k and on the next pull at the bottom at 400k, between back to back proc heaven, next pull chained periods of 25-30 seconds without tactition. And to top it all off you have Appendages which is varying by as much as 5mil damage on a pull to pull basis due to proc frequency and timing with this lower proc rate making RNG much more powerful (when it's good) in addition to much more painful (when it's not), it's really a horrible trinket to have to depend on.

I'm not saying I think there is a problem or bug with Arms, just that this week and tonights short raid specifically I've had the brunt of it. The biggest problem I have is that if you get good procs your dps will be fantastic even if you play quite poorly, you can RNG yourself to a 99% ranking even while making frequent mistakes. Meanwhile you can play perfectly without flaw and through RNG you will still do bad dps, sometimes genuinely and utterly bad damage output regardless of how well you play.

The extremes of the RNG with the spec show up too frequently, the spec is dictated far too much by lottery.

Bingo. Couldn't of said it myself. I'd just switch to fury because it's on par with Arms now and is more consistent, but my artifact weapon is only level 24 and I would have to change my gear out quite a bit. The state of the spec is really disappointing...

[Tatsujin]

How's everyones DPS going with the first week of Nighthold? Also, whomever said they pulled 700K with 870 ilvl gear on Spellcaster, how about Botanist? I doubt you're anywhere near 600K on Heroic.

ATM something's wrong with Arms DPS. Is gear seriously going to pull this off?

[Dellux]

Well, if up % chance for reset cs from 2p bonus or remove crit req that would smooth rng from tact proc and dps overall. Right now 10% chance for only critted ms/exec is not enough

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How's everyones DPS going with the first week of Nighthold? Also, whomever said they pulled 700K with 870 ilvl gear on Spellcaster, how about Botanist? I doubt you're anywhere near 600K on Heroic.

ATM something's wrong with Arms DPS. Is gear seriously going to pull this off?

Botanist is np 600-700k with ss and good positioning from tanks

[juhi]

so..like 2 days ago i spend all night smashin the dummie,,max dps was like 420k while my char sims at around 535...whatever i did it just could not higher,,,last night i get the legendary neck,,,i take off the lege legs and runnin with neck and ring,,,dummie results,,515 k steady at 6 min while char sims at around 535,,,average MS up by around 150K,,lost 3% mastery at 91,5% now gained 1,5 haste,,overall feeling,,like the spec was working way more smooth and the swing timers were not so extremely slow,,,is there any weird haste cap at around 12% ?

u have 20% haste cap on 7.1.5 depends on ur ms its up too 26%
515k on dummy is really good ! (btw u don't have execute phase on dummy) + execute phase its going too 580-600k dps. wich is really good for average 885 - 890 ilvl..
the problem on arms on nighthold is Aoe mode. some bosses have pure aoe mechanics but u cant Aoe like a lock or mage. or boomi

we cant all aoe and be happy too boss get phased on time..

there is a haste cap on 20% or 25 - 26% depends on ur ms.. for example

-50 ms 20%
100 ms 23%
100+ 25%
red zone don't play arms

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How's everyones DPS going with the first week of Nighthold? Also, whomever said they pulled 700K with 870 ilvl gear on Spellcaster, how about Botanist? I doubt you're anywhere near 600K on Heroic.

ATM something's wrong with Arms DPS. Is gear seriously going to pull this off?

I was top in single target on all bosse's except elisande..
with SS I did 740k on botanist but, its really depends on ur tanks..
and ur legendary's ! the hand and finger both is 100k dps increase! guldan trinket is 50k dps increase!
and before the 4 set and gear optimize u cant judge urself...

[Deleted]

I was on the unlucky side last night during our Heroic run, we were doing Krosus and Tactician would not proc.....This mechanic is really gay. How on earth was this the only viable option for class design?

[gruxxar]

Imo tactician would be loads better if there would be a protectionnmechanism that adds up the rage that you have spent while not getting a cs reset. Eg. Spending 100 rage and not getting a proc should guarantee your next attack resetting Cs regardless.

I mean aff warlocks have this with agony where the chance to proc a soul shard ramps up with every tick that doesnt generate a shard..

[Deleted]

hey,
so I got the legendary belt lately.
Does this help us to overcome our problems with ae?
and how does it affect our multi target rotation? at how many targets should I prioritize Cleave/WW over CS/MS with the belt?

[Novoal7]

Two different pull attempts of Star Auguar as an Arms Warrior.

Attempt A - #5 on DPS/Damage

Attempt B - #1 on DPS/Damage, 174k DPS increase from Attempt A

I didn't chose the proc life, the proc life chose me. :|

On attempt A, our Assassination Rogue, who usually battles with me for the #1 and #2 spot, PM'd me and asked me what I did wrong. This fuckin' guy. lol

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hey,
so I got the legendary belt lately.
Does this help us to overcome our problems with ae?
and how does it affect our multi target rotation? at how many targets should I prioritize Cleave/WW over CS/MS with the belt?

No, as someone who got the belt two weeks into Legion, I can confirm it does little to nothing about Arms' AOE problem. It helps, I suppose. But it doesn't fix anything.

[Paszo]

So is it better off switching from Arms to Fury?

[Bigbazz]

So is it better off switching from Arms to Fury?

If we are being real then a lot of people are doing just this. Fury is much more consistent on single target while being just as competitive, has equally strong burst AOE and much stronger sustained AOE, has better target switching capabilities. Most the people I've spoken with have made the switch to Fury at least in some capacity to really good results.

I've not got time to put AP into my weapon or I probably would too. I like Arms when it works but I get screwed by tactition too much, this week especially has been brutally frustrating, enough that it's having a negative effect on my gameplay enjoyment and I think that has a knockon effect to personal performance.

[Deemerbob]

I'm in the same boat in regards to the AP grind. I feel like a lot of the RNG from arms is mitigated by the 4p and draught of soul, and come 7.2 with double relic traits and more exploit the weakness traits our RNG is gonna get more bearable.

[Deleted]

Definitely a bit at the end of my tether with Arms tonight. Between being 200k dps ahead of 2nd place on damage sustaining 800k and on the next pull at the bottom at 400k, between back to back proc heaven, next pull chained periods of 25-30 seconds without tactition. And to top it all off you have Appendages which is varying by as much as 5mil damage on a pull to pull basis due to proc frequency and timing with this lower proc rate making RNG much more powerful (when it's good) in addition to much more painful (when it's not), it's really a horrible trinket to have to depend on.

I'm not saying I think there is a problem or bug with Arms, just that this week and tonights short raid specifically I've had the brunt of it. The biggest problem I have is that if you get good procs your dps will be fantastic even if you play quite poorly, you can RNG yourself to a 99% ranking even while making frequent mistakes. Meanwhile you can play perfectly without flaw and through RNG you will still do bad dps, sometimes genuinely and utterly bad damage output regardless of how well you play.

The extremes of the RNG with the spec show up too frequently, the spec is dictated far too much by lottery.

Agree with everything you've said here Bazz, just going to add my 2 cents.

Back in WoD the basic design of the spec minus the class trinket or any set bonuses was appallingly bad - things like the CS/MS resets should have been built into the spec from the very start. Now in Legion the basic Arms spec is a vast improvement over its predecessor but the same point still stands - spell/passive effects which are critical to the spec actually functioning properly should not be walled behind loot drops let alone the ridiculous rng that is the current legendary system.

Past two expansions I've generally put out v strong parses across the board but in Legion I've got no chance. My legendary drops so far: Prydaz, Aggramar's Stride, Sephuz, Mannoroth Bracers. Whoopie fucking doo. Following on from what you said Bazz coming down to RNG during fights it feels like I need good RNG to even be on par with everyone else I raid with and when it comes to a tactician drought it's downright embarrassing when I'm getting hammered on the meters and the only button I have available to me is Slam which hits for ~100k when there's nothing else up. Or take Gul'dan heroic earlier tonight, if you're forced to use Warbreaker to counter bad RNG for single target then you're screwed when the eye's come up because Cleave/Whirlwind damage is downright pathetic compared to something like Eye Beam which doesn't have to be synced up with 2 different cooldowns to actually be useful (such as Bladestorm with Warbreaker/BC).

The current loot system is downright horrible and is ruining what would otherwise be a really good expansion for me, the best part is I don't see them making any major changes even for 7.2. I'm honestly pissed at the thought that I may well go the entire expansion without things like the Exe Ring/CS Legs/MS Gloves which I tried out during the beta/ptr and were a tonne of fun to play with.

I realise this is pretty much just another complaint amongst many more against the legendary system which has been heard a thousand times before but the rng of the legendary system ontop of the rng during fights is genuinely sucking the fun out the game for me.

[Teaon]

I realise this is pretty much just another complaint amongst many more against the legendary system which has been heard a thousand times before but the rng of the legendary system ontop of the rng during fights is genuinely sucking the fun out the game for me.

legendaries shouldn't make the class fun to play, this is so wrong, and arms is so wrong.

[Deleted]

legendaries shouldn't make the class fun to play, this is so wrong

could not agree more...the difference between arms with ring and gloves (especially before the nerfs) and arms without them is just horrible. And i am only talking about gameplay here.

[Bigbazz]

If we look back to WOD Arms, RNG was a thing then too (With T18 + Worldbreaker trinket) and indeed I probably complained about it here, but it was a less extreme than now. I think the issue I have is that in WOD the RNG decided how well I could parse in the upper end of the scale, you were often whining because your 90-99% ranking was worse than the rank 1-2 because of RNG, or you were whining that your raids strategy didn't play into your hand etc.

Now we have these times where we Bloodlust on the pull and we get 1 tactition proc, our dps is at the bottom of the meters completely out of our control, then your raid wipes and on the next pull you're 20% ahead of the entire raid after 3 minutes in, again for the most part completely out of your control. Of course over the course of a raid tier player skill will for the most part rise to the top and you will see mostly representitive results, but on a week to week basis the ups and downs of the spec and the lack of player control is infuriating at times.

People ask me why I haven't gone Fury. If it was possible for me I would have already (despite being Arms since end of Cata). But there is a 3-4 weeks of Mythic + farming required, switching loot specs for Legendaries/Relics in addition to convincing my raid leader that I now need to main spec roll on Fire/Storm relics too... And when you don't have an excess of free time that's an impossibility.

[Oneer]

People ask me why I haven't gone Fury. If it was possible for me I would have already (despite being Arms since end of Cata). But there is a 3-4 weeks of Mythic + farming required, switching loot specs for Legendaries/Relics in addition to convincing my raid leader that I now need to main spec roll on Fire/Storm relics too... And when you don't have an excess of free time that's an impossibility.

What you've highlighted is for me the biggest let down of legion for progression raiders outside of leg RNG, your at the mercy of spec balance which is compounded by the inability to be flexible with specs on progression due to min-max potential being gated behind a triple digit time sink in the form of the AP grind for 54 traits in a secondary spec, albeit personal circumstance does play a factor in that (9 to 5 job vs student ect).

[Kitaen]

the sole fact we havn't even been mentioned in the recent patch notes makes me angry to say the least. you cannot simply nerf all decent legendaries into obvlivion without any compensation to what the legendaries achieved in the first place (aka make the gameplay less frustration due to more proccs).

we are in dire need of a baselinebuff like more base tactitian proccs, a built in sweeping strikes, a one minute bladestorm, a whirlwind that hits 3 times as hard or a general overhaul of this abyssmal golden cleave trait.

right now we are the worst melee specc in this instance, at least from the common melee speccs. (sorry ferals and UH dks, you don't deserve thus but are no benchmark :O )

and then again, we do not even get fucking mentioned in a single sentence by these mofo's from blizzards.

[Rafalga]

It was hilarious to read latest hotfixes, just change Paladin to Warrior and Crusade to Colossus Smash in the summary. Problem for both is literally identical, solution however is still nowhere to be seen for warriors.