1. #9381
    Look everyone, we're all arguing here pointlessly while Blizzard is focused more on other specs, especially Aff. Locks. We have good amount of constructive posts on their Feedback and 7.2.5 PTR forums and yet there is still ONE response from Blizzard. Right now, the spec is broken on the PTR and no explaination was given as to where the spec needs to be from Blizzard or what we should be focusing on. Sarri is still trying to simulate the new stuff that's happening from the PTR ... so yes we're waiting on Discord to hear from him but the nerf to Dauntless really hurts and trying any other talent without FR will reduce your overall DPS by 100Kish. FR needs to be a baseline, or changed to Heroic Strike and still be a baseline, and put another talent in there. Dauntless as well needs to be a baseline. Or, remove all of these and buff all of our other abilities together so we can do the damage we're supposed to be doing.

  2. #9382
    Yeah, I'm starting to come around to the idea that heroic strike should have been baseline, and FR be the talented "upgrade" to it. There just isn't really a way to make Arms rage management interesting without something small off the GCD -- it just doesn't work. You are either going to have a slow WoD spec where you are sitting there auto attacking for a bit (which nearly everyone hated) or a spec that can dump a bit off the GCD when necessary.

    Without redesigning Deadly Calm and/or and buffing Mortal Combo to hell (I'm not even mentioning In for the Kill cause it's a stupid ass talent), FR will be king. And while again I appreciated the philosophy behind these changes all they ended up accomplishing was making the FR build feel clunky as hell while keeping it on top. Not a good first look.

    However, even if they aren't directly responding to us, it's clear they are listening. So we should definitely keep hitting them with feedback on the forums, on here, on the discord, and most importantly imo -- on twitter. They seem very receptive to twitter, which is great but also unfortunate because twitter forces you to distill complex discussions and feedback into dumb one liners.
    Last edited by Anbokr; 2017-04-21 at 03:04 PM.

  3. #9383
    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    You mean simplify an already simple spec further stripping it from every thought process involved? Yeah i can see why some people would want that.
    Do you honestly think that FR is that complicated? Takes all of a minute to learn and is easy to do properly. Hell you can make macros for it so you can shut off your brain.

    If you're looking for something with skill based rotations, you're playing the wrong game.
    What is best in life? Bashin' stuff of course.

  4. #9384
    Brewmaster Uriel's Avatar
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    I said Arms is a simple spec didnt i? Macroing FR is not what i ment rather than managing you rage properly. If you tKe that away what is left? Pressing buttons while at 100 rage all the time?
    Last edited by Uriel; 2017-04-21 at 04:07 PM.

  5. #9385
    Those who are complaining about FR - I did the same in the very beginning of Legion. Then about two weeks in, I saw an FR Arms Warrior ahead of me with 280K while I'm struggling to sustain 220-230K - on every boss in a mythic dungeon. So, I decided to switch to FR. It takes no more than two weeks to master FR, with some people doing it in few days. FR makes Arms fun, Tactician is not fun ... I'm okay with FR or Heroic Strike. Both are cool mechanics to work with.

    If you're complaining more about FR, then I can't think of anything else than you are a clicker and not a keybinder (seriously, if you are then that is an issue on your end), you're a keybinder but have limited keys (time to get a multi-button mouse like the G600 or new Corsair MMO mouse), you think FR/Heroic Strike are not fun (both are LITERALLY the same thing, rage dump), or you're just simply a hard-headed person that doesn't want to learn FR all-together and want to mash buttons without worrying about other things. I mean no offense to people who complain about FR/Heroic Strike, but Arms' fantasy focuses on doing insane ST DPS and FR/Heroic Strike makes sense.

    Tactician is honestly not fun because of the heavy RNG - both on live and on PTR (especially with rage-cost increase on most abilities and dauntless nerf).

  6. #9386
    Herald of the Titans Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    It would be cool if they just put Cleave off the gcd with no cd like it used to be.
    rip Dave Zablidowsky

  7. #9387
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    Yeah, I'm starting to come around to the idea that heroic strike should have been baseline, and FR be the talented "upgrade" to it. There just isn't really a way to make Arms rage management interesting without something small off the GCD -- it just doesn't work. You are either going to have a slow WoD spec where you are sitting there auto attacking for a bit (which nearly everyone hated) or a spec that can dump a bit off the GCD when necessary.

    Without redesigning Deadly Calm and/or and buffing Mortal Combo to hell (I'm not even mentioning In for the Kill cause it's a stupid ass talent), FR will be king. And while again I appreciated the philosophy behind these changes all they ended up accomplishing was making the FR build feel clunky as hell while keeping it on top. Not a good first look.

    However, even if they aren't directly responding to us, it's clear they are listening. So we should definitely keep hitting them with feedback on the forums, on here, on the discord, and most importantly imo -- on twitter. They seem very receptive to twitter, which is great but also unfortunate because twitter forces you to distill complex discussions and feedback into dumb one liners.
    Time to petition for the return of Heroic strike. Nerfing rage regen and turning us into 6.0 Arms would really suck.

  8. #9388
    I think the spec absolutely needs Heroic Strike baseline. And Focused Rage needs to be the talent that upgrades it to something stronger with a slightly different gameplay. You can't balance an off gcd gameplay against on gcd gameplay. One spec will either have way too much rage, or nowhere near enough. As we see on the current PTR for Arms.

  9. #9389
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatsujin View Post
    Those who are complaining about FR - I did the same in the very beginning of Legion. Then about two weeks in, I saw an FR Arms Warrior ahead of me with 280K while I'm struggling to sustain 220-230K - on every boss in a mythic dungeon. So, I decided to switch to FR. It takes no more than two weeks to master FR, with some people doing it in few days. FR makes Arms fun, Tactician is not fun ... I'm okay with FR or Heroic Strike. Both are cool mechanics to work with.

    If you're complaining more about FR, then I can't think of anything else than you are a clicker and not a keybinder (seriously, if you are then that is an issue on your end), you're a keybinder but have limited keys (time to get a multi-button mouse like the G600 or new Corsair MMO mouse), you think FR/Heroic Strike are not fun (both are LITERALLY the same thing, rage dump), or you're just simply a hard-headed person that doesn't want to learn FR all-together and want to mash buttons without worrying about other things. I mean no offense to people who complain about FR/Heroic Strike, but Arms' fantasy focuses on doing insane ST DPS and FR/Heroic Strike makes sense.

    Tactician is honestly not fun because of the heavy RNG - both on live and on PTR (especially with rage-cost increase on most abilities and dauntless nerf).
    Getting tired of the brow beating going on here with the idea that if you don't like FR then you're a no skill trogg. How about people just don't like it? How hard is that to understand? How hard is it to undestand some people find it tedious? You like it, ok that's great, glad you're having a good time. There's a lot of warriors who enjoyed the old school style a lot more though, and feel this new FR warrior is not the direction we wanted to go. You like your option to play FR, well the rest of us would like the option not to have to play FR and not be 200k behind FR. There is nothing wrong with people being allowed to have options.

    - - - Updated - - -

    PS: There are people who are good at FR and still hate it, just saying......

  10. #9390
    Brewmaster Uriel's Avatar
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    So we now know that FR = HS.

    HS has been a part of warriors since vanilla. Not liking FR/HS is like not liking autohit. HS was "on next meleeswing". Most 2handers had 2.x swingtimer. So no difference between push button>do damage a bit later. FR does the same. Push button> do damage a bit later.

    In wrath Warriors had overflowing ragegain at a certain gearlvl. It was required to mash HS with other buttons just like ut is now. If you exclude tactician legion arms is closest to old school warrior since forever.

    Why do you want to play warrior if you dislike basic warrior gameplay? Spamming offgcd skills with other attacks is core gameplay of warrior. Maybe another spec is more for you? At least right now it is required to maje legion warrior work.
    Last edited by Uriel; 2017-04-21 at 08:32 PM.

  11. #9391
    Quote Originally Posted by Atherions View Post
    Time to petition for the return of Heroic strike. Nerfing rage regen and turning us into 6.0 Arms would really suck.
    focused rage is exactly the same as heroic strike. its a excess rage dump that has a low rage : dmg ratio.

  12. #9392
    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    You mean simplify an already simple spec further stripping it from every thought process involved? Yeah i can see why some people would want that.
    Or maybe people want attacks to be attacks, I am sorry but fr is shit, if you want a extra button it should be heroic strike, arms was fine with heroic strike.

  13. #9393
    Quote Originally Posted by Holofernes View Post
    focused rage is exactly the same as heroic strike. its a excess rage dump that has a low rage : dmg ratio.
    While in the past I'd agree (and they are extremely similar concepts), they just aren't the same. The animation is everything to a lot of people, hence the strike, the actual attack. Not to mention FR is a stacking mechanic that buffs mortal strike whereas HS is a separate ability and attack in and of itself, and there is no stacking mechanic to worry about like with FR.

    Very similar, but different. They might serve the same function (dumping excess rage), but they are still different.

    Like some others have echoed, I really don't want to head back to WoD Arms, but that's definitely what the PTR feels like to me. The rage gen is absolutely abysmal. I'd rather have smooth rage gen with a baseline dump (HS) or hell just smooth rage gen with occasional overcapping than the situation on the PTR right now. I don't care about the numbers, just talking about the feel.

    Still think the best way to tackle Arms would be to redesign deadly calm so we don't have this feast or famine playstyle, and then adjusting rage gen with that talent gone/redesigned; as opposed to just nerfing rage gen across the board and just further amplifying the feast/famine feel that comes with a talent like deadly calm. It's also the crux of the talent trio (FR/AM/DC).
    Last edited by Anbokr; 2017-04-21 at 09:58 PM.

  14. #9394
    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    So we now know that FR = HS.

    HS has been a part of warriors since vanilla. Not liking FR/HS is like not liking autohit. HS was "on next meleeswing". Most 2handers had 2.x swingtimer. So no difference between push button>do damage a bit later. FR does the same. Push button> do damage a bit later.

    In wrath Warriors had overflowing ragegain at a certain gearlvl. It was required to mash HS with other buttons just like ut is now. If you exclude tactician legion arms is closest to old school warrior since forever.

    Why do you want to play warrior if you dislike basic warrior gameplay? Spamming offgcd skills with other attacks is core gameplay of warrior. Maybe another spec is more for you? At least right now it is required to maje legion warrior work.
    Really? From what I very clearly remember, HS did damage every time I used it. There was no time when I hit HS too many times and it became usless. 3 stacks of FR and you stop using it. You ONLY used HS when you had enough rage to do so ( this meant only in high rage regent timers and when you had more than 80 rage). You use FR at all times during your roation even when you have 25 rage. Slam much closer resembles HS fuction today not FR. I never charge and used HS ever. I never hit CS than HS directly after either because you did not waste rage unless were 100% sure you were going to have ample.

  15. #9395
    I cant help but feel people who say heroic strike = FR either are new to warriors are just trying to be contrary for the sheer sake of it.
    What is best in life? Bashin' stuff of course.

  16. #9396
    High Overlord Jazz015's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    I cant help but feel people who say heroic strike = FR either are new to warriors are just trying to be contrary for the sheer sake of it.
    I want my slam with cast time and use it to reset my swing timer for maximum effort. Can I get points for not being new to warrior and not be bashed in a condescending way? 8)

  17. #9397
    FR isn't Heroic strike. But it is designed to do the same thing. Preventing you from capping rage. At it's current low rage cost state however it is used a little too often that it just feels you hit it more than you do slam. Litterally Slam 2.0
    Still i think Deadly Calm has to stay. So when you are in a long rage drought where you can never hit FR. You still get those little moments you can go all out on it.

    Nostalgia or not. FR feels it fits more into the "Arms" toolkit.
    I don't like it. But i do not feel it needs to be removed either for the people that enjoy the style. Arms just needs more viable options.

  18. #9398
    FR took a burn extra rage ability and made it that plus a core rotational ability. I'm not sure if the devs intended it to be used as anything but to keep from rage capping, but it's more than that.

    I enjoyed heroic strike, wish it would return.

  19. #9399
    I have no problem with FR, i really like the playstyle. But some people here really don't like it for some reason. Everyone likes Heroic strike, because anything else would be blasphemy on the warrior forums. So bring back heroic strike, make FR a talented alternative, and keep our rage levels pre nerf.

  20. #9400
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinka View Post
    FR isn't Heroic strike. But it is designed to do the same thing. Preventing you from capping rage. At it's current low rage cost state however it is used a little too often that it just feels you hit it more than you do slam. Litterally Slam 2.0
    Still i think Deadly Calm has to stay. So when you are in a long rage drought where you can never hit FR. You still get those little moments you can go all out on it.

    Nostalgia or not. FR feels it fits more into the "Arms" toolkit.
    I don't like it. But i do not feel it needs to be removed either for the people that enjoy the style. Arms just needs more viable options.
    From Discords Warrior Google Doc - "Fill with Slam when above 32 rage". Sorry, it's slam that you use in the current game to keep from rage capping not FR. So again, "Slam" is much more today what HS use to be. No where will you find, "if your about to cap use FR", and why, because FR does nothing after 3 stacks.
    Last edited by Valkaneer; 2017-04-22 at 07:32 AM.

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