1. #9481
    im interested in how this synergy trinket with fire dmg will work out. if 15 people are wearing it, would it be strong enough to beat other combos? This way of balancing trinkets would also allow them to make all trinkets work again in pvp by making pve bis trinkets work only with this kind of synergy, because pvp wihtout trinkets sucks, and with imba oneshot trinkets its not fun at all.

  2. #9482
    Fairly safe to say at this point that all of that discussion is now meaningless. Not surprised about them nerfing DOS even though they literally said it wasnt going to be nerfed when asked, know them too well at this point. Surprised at all the big changes for Arms though, quite late in the PTR too.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  3. #9483
    Quote Originally Posted by LazyCoding View Post
    Either with AM or OpS picked they still line up. The difference is AM reduces cooldown of the combo by nearly 15 seconds.
    Interesting, when I took Anger Management Battle Cry, was almost always 7-8 Seconds ahead of Bladestorm's Cooldown. It's quite prone to RNG. That being said with Opportunity Strikes, Bladestorm almost always lined up with in 2-3 seconds of each other. I'll need to test this a bit more. (Both are without Convergence of Fates).

    The big thing I noticed though was In for the Kill. Taking this talent actually allowed me to get the whole duration of Bladestorm inside of a Battle Cry window with minimal haste (10% or around 3.5k Hatse). Without it the last portion of Bladestorm misses out on Battle Cry's critical strike, as well as the bonus damage from Touch of Zakajz.

    The DPS Ring also now is something worth considering. With both in toe, you could take Focused Rage, and continue the kind of DPS priority we've been doing since the beginning of this expansion.
    Curoar, Arms Warrior of 15 years.

  4. #9484
    So far I'm really sad about the changes to Arms on the PTR. Focused Rage is basically not viable anymore, and instead we go back to a slower build, with arguably less thinking involved. I really liked the FR gameplay, enough to stick with it even when Fury was objectively the better spec for progress. The issue was really how random the tactician procs were and how you'd get screwed without these procs. If the changelog for 7.2.5 was "decrease CD on CS, increase % on EtW" I'd have been the happiest warrior in the world.

    Because really, the FR + DC + AM build required you: 1. to be strategic about FR usage to well manage rage + fish for procs + decrease BC CD, especially on fights that make you use sweeping strikes (eli, guldan); 2. to know the encounter really well in order to properly delay BC windows (for which you also need to take into consideration variance due to AM); 3. to perfect placement (and also some encounter timing knowledge) for DoS usage.

    I don't see any other combination of our talents giving us the same amount of thinking at each GCD. But maybe I'm just change adverse and I don't see the subtleties in the other talents

  5. #9485
    So far I'm really sad about the changes to Arms on the PTR. Focused Rage is basically not viable anymore, and instead we go back to a slower build, with arguably less thinking involved. I really liked the FR gameplay, enough to stick with it even when Fury was objectively the better spec for progress. The issue was really how random the tactician procs were and how you'd get screwed without these procs. If the changelog for 7.2.5 was "decrease CD on CS, increase % on EtW" I'd have been the happiest warrior in the world.

    Because really, the FR + DC + AM build required you: 1. to be strategic about FR usage to well manage rage + fish for procs + decrease BC CD, especially on fights that make you use sweeping strikes (eli, guldan); 2. to know the encounter really well in order to properly delay BC windows (for which you also need to take into consideration variance due to AM); 3. to perfect placement relative to adds (and also some encounter timing knowledge) for DoS usage; 4. to perfect placement relative to the boss for parries (it's one thing to get a 2M damage MS parried by a boss, but it's way worse to have your tactician proc be "wasted" on a CS that gets parried and doesn't apply the debuf -- that's still partially true, but CS is made less important with the changes).

    I don't see any other combination of our talents giving us the same amount of thinking at each GCD. But maybe I'm just change adverse and I don't see the subtleties in the other talents

  6. #9486
    I am sure focus rage is still viable if you get the new legendary ring that lets you pick it and deadly calm.

  7. #9487
    Making the build dependent on a legendary really sucks though. Since Ayala has amazing synergy with the Arms golden trait, it's pretty much BiS except in the most add heavy fights. Not having the option to use gloves to help with rage starvation (on Sweeping Strikes fights), or Kil'Jaeden for add fights, or even Prydaz during progress will really decrease the versatility of the FR build. And that's assuming it is indeed still viable.

  8. #9488
    Ehh just saying, I personally hate FR, and I am glad its been gutted.

  9. #9489
    Guys stop, FR is dead, we can end the "FR is a hard to pull off" meme
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  10. #9490
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Guys stop, FR is dead, we can end the "FR is a hard to pull off" meme
    Well technically if you have the new legendary ring, you can still play FR.
    Curoar, Arms Warrior of 15 years.

  11. #9491
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner45 View Post
    Ehh just saying, I personally hate FR, and I am glad its been gutted.
    Why would you be happy that FR build is gutted? I can understand if you didn't like FR because it was the only viable Arms build, but why be happy that it is no longer a viable spec for those who ENJOYED it?

    I am really tired of seeing the FR hate. It has nothing to do with the FR build but everything to do with no viable alternative. Blizzard worked hard to make other builds viable for Arms. Stop perpetuating the FR hate and ruining an enjoyable spec for many players.

    I sincerely hope that the current changes to FR are reconsidered because it's the only high APM spec that is fun and it's currently UNPLAYABLE on the PTR due to rage management nerfs in Precise Strikes rage reductions, Dauntless rage reduction nerf, Battle Cry nerf, and Focused Rage rage cost increases. Unfathomable on the reasons why.
    Last edited by bigtom; 2017-05-25 at 04:22 AM.

  12. #9492
    Personally I'm fine with FR style of play, but I really felt disappointed that they changed the Arms talent tree. Now I'll need the new legendary ring to make FR spect viable ...I think it's not fair for people that are fine with FR spec...oh well we'll see.

  13. #9493
    Im kind of new to playing arms but isnt focused rage part of the reason deadly calm is even good, and once theyre mutually exclusive (with the exception of the new ring) will deadly calm even be as valuable (without even considering the 25% nerf)

  14. #9494
    Deleted
    I feel that's a very hard question to answer. Given the nerfs to basically all the core package of the FR build in one way or the other, we'll have to see once Blizz is done with the changes and there's a stable PTR build.

    Mechanically, given Warriors produce enough Rage, DC/FR/AM will perform good together regardless.

  15. #9495
    Quote Originally Posted by Gransas View Post
    Personally I'm fine with FR style of play, but I really felt disappointed that they changed the Arms talent tree. Now I'll need the new legendary ring to make FR spect viable ...I think it's not fair for people that are fine with FR spec...oh well we'll see.
    Yeah I think FR build is dead barring some last minute changes here. Playing around on PTR I'm a little meh on the changes, it's very clear they want to steer us a bit back towards WoD with rage starvation actually being a standard thing for the spec and something we just have to deal with -- with most talent setups you'll find yourself just waiting on auto attack rage at some point. I'm not a fan, but blizz is always terrified of resource flooding.

    One huge oversight on PTR is that the execute phase is completely broken. It's probably a 5% damage gain at best compared to your normal rotation which is the extreme opposite of live (where the execute phase is just bonkers) because you simply have no rage sustain. Arms execute now feels like Fury execute without rampage to me, but even Fury has an easier time generating rage. With Precise Strikes gone, two executes and you are done -- there is a lot of waiting and just a lot of clunky feeling downtime. Not a good feel at all. OpS helps a bit, but is by no means enough, and I really don't want to see another warrior spec that relies on a talent to "fix" execute.

    They definitely need to bake in a nerfed or mini version old IftK (the irony, it would actually be useful on PTR) or precise strikes somewhere on the artifact tree, or baseline. Execute is just defunct, clunky, and just all around terrible-feeling on the PTR compared to the silky smooth feel of the live execute. If there's one thing arms live got right (especially after executioner's precision), it's execute and just the feeling of power and resource flooding that you get. I think resource flood should be a part of execute, especially if the other 80% of the fight is getting slowed down resource wise.

  16. #9496
    The Patient
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    the change to precise strikes is fucking stupid. Precise strikes (live) is more crucial to Arms rage efficiency than dauntless. Now with 5/5 PS, instead of 8 rage for CS>EXE it is 36 (with nerfed dauntless). CS>MS is going from actually gaining 4 rage (with gloves) to costing 10. And if you don't have gloves you are fukt.

  17. #9497
    well from my testing on ptr so fare FR build even with DC ring is kinda crap now and rend/tm/iftk/os build looks to be the best option atlest for single target

    and yes new Precise strinke is kinda crap, on 100-20% there is no rage problem what so ever but sub 20% we go big rage problems

  18. #9498
    Deleted
    I don't get why so many hate on the fr build, did you watch asmongolds stream once and thought it was a cool thing to hate on it, or are you just terrible players?
    The FR build is what made arms fun to play

  19. #9499
    Quote Originally Posted by iFool View Post
    I feel that's a very hard question to answer. Given the nerfs to basically all the core package of the FR build in one way or the other, we'll have to see once Blizz is done with the changes and there's a stable PTR build.

    Mechanically, given Warriors produce enough Rage, DC/FR/AM will perform good together regardless.
    Unless you use the new legendary ring, you cannot have both DC and FR, since FR was moved to the t90 tier.

  20. #9500
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by webcamboy View Post
    I don't get why so many hate on the fr build, did you watch asmongolds stream once and thought it was a cool thing to hate on it, or are you just terrible players?
    The FR build is what made arms fun to play
    FR almost made me reroll after 11 years of playing warrior... I hated WoD arms but what they done to the spec in EN/NH was beyond retarded

    I'm glad they gutted FR

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