Fury Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Fury is all about TG. If you want to play 1h swords go combat rogue. Fury is all about TG. If TG is gone then that's it for me.

If we're speaking origins/base of feel, nope. Then two one-handers are the shit. That's the original Fury. And there are still two options to Fury, which are both viable unless you raid on the cutting-edge. But I agree that taking TG away might be a little... harsh. Give SMF a spotlight and keep TG useful or at least AROUND and available.

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At least there is less competition for 1H strength weapons from raid drops, oh wait...

Yeah, with Artifacts we really don't have to worry about THAT. Nobody has. Weapon bitching gets replaced by Relic-bitching.

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Let's hope for something like this.

Weeell... yes. It was just a portion. If you'd ask me, the MOST fun (and hard) thing to do, would be to completely tie the Artifact and Rage-bar together. So you basically switch weapon-types (and thus passives) mid-fight, depending on your Rage.
Basic thought was:
-> Keeping rage below 60 (or 50 without the glyph) = one-handed size & SMF passive active; higher single-target damage, Single-target abilities cost less rage and deal slightly more damage.
-> Keeping rage above 60 (or 50 " ) = Two-handed size & TG passive active; higher AoE/Spread damage, AoE Abilities cost less Rage and deal slightly more damage.
-> (Maybe) Add a Heroic Strike esque ability that helps with rage management (both ways! Something that helps you set up a turn to the AoE capabilities or back down to the Single-target capabilities of your Weapon)
-> Headlong Rush and thus Haste get a bit more importance, as you'd now have to keep a clearer look on it, to make sure you aren't having too many GCDs that cause you to burn rage too quickly during AoE or auto-attack too fast with the one-handers, thus generating too much rage to stay in the below-60 bracket.

We're Warriors, so I think this would be something that literally makes our underwhelming-looking weapon special in it's own way, while keeping true to the Artifact's Lore.

Edit: I just realized, this might also put more sense into the 120 Rage glyph, as it would effectively help or cockblock your management, based on how well you manage your rage, thus adding some cons to an otherwise "meta"-esque glyph, depending on personal playstyle. Which might as well end up creating at least minor differences between warriors.

Edit²: Also just realized, it might help more to get rid of things like proccs.

In my oppinion we're WAY to proccy. I don't really feel like Rage-management is a big thing anymore. Unless BS cockblocks the "rotation", we're good with one or two non-procc Wild Strikes, depending on RPS/Income-frequency.

I just think, we need to get away from the "proccy" to something "stable". Make Bloodthirst still trigger Enrage, to complement Mastery, but increase it's output to something more.. "stable", akin to the other two buttons. Have 2 Raging Blow stacks available at all times, recharging over a short amount of time, like Charge does with Double Time. Get rid of Bloodsurge and keep Wild Strike in as a normal attack with decent output and reduce it's rage cost appropiate to the 50/60 rage windows for each triggered passive. Vice-versa, give Whirlwind back it's high damage output and 2 stacks as well. The AoE equivalent to Raging Blow. Bring back Cleave as a frontal-cone AoE akin in cost and output to Wild Strike, with the cone also adding some positioning-awareness to the mix. But of course, those will do less damage, single-target by base and due to the rage-mechanic, to keep it from making one side of the coin better for both situations, as the other.

And instead of Heroic Strike, let's add in an ability that helps trigger the two states. A flexible free-of-cost ability, let's call it "Rampage"; maybe channeled, doesn't interrupt on movement, that does high, pure single-target Damage to your current target below 60/50 rage, but generates rage per second in return and high, pure AoE-damage above the 60/50 threshold, but THEN costs rage per second in return and becomes a frontal-cone attack that finishes with a 360° Burst-hit at the end of it, akin to a stronger Whirlwind.
Edit: You could even add haste into this, more haste = more hits during the channel = more effective damage output from Rampage, to keep it in the mix and add in another factor when thinking about your haste sweetspot.

So the trick would rather be, setting your Rage-bar up before either of the two damage-types becomes important in a fight, so you gain the most out of your Rampage-phase. Of course this is very subjective and weaving Talents in, like Bladestorm or even Anger Management might be tricky...(?)

... BUT: It would add some depth and flexibility to Fury, while getting rid of this dispicable RNG/Crit reliability. Fights with both Cleave and Single-Target become more interesting, as you'd have to manage and literally "juggle" your rage from full to zero and back, while pure AoE or pure Single-target fights stay relatively focused, with you just trying not to go over or below the threshold, in order to keep up focused pressure on either of both types of damage.

Artifacts and the current thoughts on how to obtain and level them, put a challenge on this whole "multi-specc" / "Arms-cleave/Fury-ST" thing. It's time-consuming, so adding versatility and meaning to speccs is important, to keep this from going down the "Gratz, you wanna be competitive? Level TWO Artifacts and get relics for them" route.

Arms was always seen as the go-to PvP Specc. Make it that.

Fury was the iconic PvE Specc, right? Make it a bit more versatile. It doesn't need to become OP, but with cross-speccing being challenged by Artifacts, use the Artifact to add a new mechanic, that makes both Cleave and Single-Target pressure possible. But the player needs to manage and play around his rage. With his rage. In order to keep being productive and in the fight.

And nooow... I feel like I wasted time on something that will:
1) - Most likely not be or make it into the Game.
2) - Will be criticized to death here.

Well.. let me know what you guys think.

The entire point is: Bring back Rage as MORE then just a boring "resource". Turn it into a mechanic, instead of trying to turn our rotation/priority list into a big, fucked-up mechanic.

[Taeldorian]

If we're speaking origins/base of feel, nope. Then two one-handers are the shit. That's the original Fury. And there are still two options to Fury, which are both viable unless you raid on the cutting-edge. But I agree that taking TG away might be a little... harsh. Give SMF a spotlight and keep TG useful or at least AROUND and available.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, with Artifacts we really don't have to worry about THAT. Nobody has. Weapon bitching gets replaced by Relic-bitching.

- - - Updated - - -



Weeell... yes. It was just a portion. If you'd ask me, the MOST fun (and hard) thing to do, would be to completely tie the Artifact and Rage-bar together. So you basically switch weapon-types (and thus passives) mid-fight, depending on your Rage.
Basic thought was:
-> Keeping rage below 60 (or 50 without the glyph) = one-handed size & SMF passive active; higher single-target damage, Single-target abilities cost less rage and deal slightly more damage.
-> Keeping rage above 60 (or 50 " ) = Two-handed size & TG passive active; higher AoE/Spread damage, AoE Abilities cost less Rage and deal slightly more damage.
-> (Maybe) Add a Heroic Strike esque ability that helps with rage management (both ways! Something that helps you set up a turn to the AoE capabilities or back down to the Single-target capabilities of your Weapon)
-> Headlong Rush and thus Haste get a bit more importance, as you'd now have to keep a clearer look on it, to make sure you aren't having too many GCDs that cause you to burn rage too quickly during AoE or auto-attack too fast with the one-handers, thus generating too much rage to stay in the below-60 bracket.

We're Warriors, so I think this would be something that literally makes our underwhelming-looking weapon special in it's own way, while keeping true to the Artifact's Lore.

Edit: I just realized, this might also put more sense into the 120 Rage glyph, as it would effectively help or cockblock your management, based on how well you manage your rage, thus adding some cons to an otherwise "meta"-esque glyph, depending on personal playstyle. Which might as well end up creating at least minor differences between warriors.

Edit²: Also just realized, it might help more to get rid of things like proccs.

In my oppinion we're WAY to proccy. I don't really feel like Rage-management is a big thing anymore. Unless BS cockblocks the "rotation", we're good with one or two non-procc Wild Strikes, depending on RPS/Income-frequency.

I just think, we need to get away from the "proccy" to something "stable". Make Bloodthirst still trigger Enrage, to complement Mastery, but increase it's output to something more.. "stable", akin to the other two buttons. Have 2 Raging Blow stacks available at all times, recharging over a short amount of time, like Charge does with Double Time. Get rid of Bloodsurge and keep Wild Strike in as a normal attack with decent output and reduce it's rage cost appropiate to the 50/60 rage windows for each triggered passive.

And instead of Heroic Strike, let's add in an ability that helps trigger the two states. A flexible free-of-cost ability, let's call it "Rampage"; maybe channeled, that does high, pure single-target Damage below 60/50 rage but generates rage in return and high, pure AoE-damage above the 60/50 threshold, but THEN costs rage in return.

So the trick would rather be, setting your Rage-bar up before either of the two damage-types becomes important in a fight, so you gain the most out of your Rampage-phase. Of course this is very subjective and weaving Talents in, like Bladestorm or even Anger Management might be tricky...(?)

... BUT: It would add some depth and flexibility to Fury, while getting rid of this dispicable RNG/Crit reliability. Fights with both Cleave and Single-Target become more interesting, as you'd have to manage and literally "juggle" your rage from full to zero and back, while pure AoE or pure Single-target fights stay relatively focused, with you just trying not to go over or below the threshold, in order to keep up focused pressure on either of both types of damage.

Artifacts and the current thoughts on how to obtain and level them, put a challenge on this whole "multi-specc" / "Arms-cleave/Fury-ST" thing. It's time-consuming, so adding versatility and meaning to speccs is important, to keep this from going down the "Gratz, you wanna be competitive? Level TWO Artifacts and get relics for them" route.

Arms was always seen as the go-to PvP Specc. Make it that.

Fury was the iconic PvE Specc, right? Make it a bit more versatile. It doesn't need to become OP, but with cross-speccing being challenged by Artifacts, use the Artifact to add a new mechanic, that makes both Cleave and Single-Target pressure possible. But the player needs to manage and play around his rage. With his rage. In order to keep being productive and in the fight.

And nooow... I feel like I wasted time on something that will:
1) - Most likely not be or make it into the Game.
2) - Will be criticized to death here.

Well.. let me know what you guys think.

That's somewhat like what happens in GW2 except it's at your own will. Can swap weapons as a warrior (other classes too though) mid fight or whenever you want. For example, I use my first 3 abilites with my greatsword and swap to my axe/mace set to complete the rotation. I feel like that's what you're getting close to, but I really like the idea.

[Deleted]

That's somewhat like what happens in GW2 except it's at your own will. Can swap weapons as a warrior (other classes too though) mid fight or whenever you want. For example, I use my first 3 abilites with my greatsword and swap to my axe/mace set to complete the rotation. I feel like that's what you're getting close to, but I really like the idea.

Except, I mean it different. It's based on the idea, that the Artifact might grow bigger and smaller depending on rage. It's Lore and this idea, gave me this little concept. It's not two separate weapons of your choosing, like in GW2. It's ONE WEAPON, visually changing style from 1h to 2h and back, depending on your Rage, but keeping in mind the general oppinion and fact, that TG has more AOE output than SMF, while SMF was always slightly ahead in pure single-target fights. But the problem was always (and with warforged more and more) that you normally (during Progression), wouldn't all of a sudden demand two two-handers AND two one-handers at the same time, so you're prepared for EVERYTHING. It's literally a concept idea for Fury, tied to making the Rage-bar a big thing again, while keeping some depth and bringing some meaning to our otherwise pretty stale Artifact Weapon.

Again. I think the Weapon is OK, but nothing special. I read the comments on the Artifact site and there are three main concerns:

1.) The Fury weapons aren't special and don't look overwhelming either. Especially opposed to the Arcane Mage Weapon, which is literally AEGWYNNS FUCKING STAFF! ... or the Frost Mage staff which is - also - the Staff of the FIRST Guardian of Tirisfal.
2.) Players fear for TG, vice versa, with two two-handers SMF fans would do the same.
3.) The Fear of having to grind up and enhance two seperate Artifacts, in order to be competitive in your Raid and more importantly, to be VIABLE for your Raid.

I feel like, all of this gives Blizzard a chance to apply ONE Trait to the weapon, that fixes A LOT of problems and eradicates concerns of the Warrior-community that might come up. And it's not warrior-exclusive; the nature of Artifacts, as stated above, makes it impossible for them to not touch every specc at least a little, to tweak them all into a position where they're somewhat equally viable or at least exceed the others in a certain type of environment, players might be interested in.

It would also give it an interesting new turn, with which SMF and TG aren't working against each other on a general basis, but much rather have their significant strengths actually tied into the class and how you play. They are no longer a choice, but instead like Water and Fire. They don't go well together at the same time, but being able to trigger them when you need one of 'em? Hell yeah!

The expansion is about Class & Specc identity, right? It's one of their "big things", this time. So I doubt they'd leave Arms and Fury untouched to begin with, as stated above. Because both have very common oppinions applied to them, on WHERE they belong in terms of PvE and PvP.

And on a more personal basis: I don't think proccy playstyles are fun AT ALL. It's mildly OK with Fury atm, if you ask me. But the challenge shouldn't be waiting for RNGesus to hear your prayers. The challenge should be CONTROLLABLE. YOU, the Player, should be able to tackle the challenge by learning and executing the given Playstyle RIGHT.

[satimy]

If you blow your Swifty mid charge and siegebreaker during the charge stun you can hit people for half their HP with no knockback, outside of this, it knocks them to charge range so you can charge for rage and works as a secondary interrupt. Also, Lumbermill.

Your PvP impractical statement reeks of you not using it properly.

If charge is stunning than you won't have another charge and even then it doesn't do good damage.



So lol

[Taeldorian]

Except, I mean it different. It's based on the idea, that the Artifact might grow bigger and smaller depending on rage. It's Lore and this idea, gave me this little concept. It's not two separate weapons of your choosing, like in GW2. It's ONE WEAPON, visually changing style from 1h to 2h and back, depending on your Rage, but keeping in mind the general oppinion and fact, that TG has more AOE output than SMF, while SMF was always slightly ahead in pure single-target fights. But the problem was always (and with warforged more and more) that you normally (during Progression), wouldn't all of a sudden demand two two-handers AND two one-handers at the same time, so you're prepared for EVERYTHING. It's literally a concept idea for Fury, tied to making the Rage-bar a big thing again, while keeping some depth and bringing some meaning to our otherwise pretty stale Artifact Weapon.

Again. I think the Weapon is OK, but nothing special. I read the comments on the Artifact site and there are three main concerns:

1.) The Fury weapons aren't special and don't look overwhelming either. Especially opposed to the Arcane Mage Weapon, which is literally AEGWYNNS FUCKING STAFF! ... or the Frost Mage staff which is - also - the Staff of the FIRST Guardian of Tirisfal.
2.) Players fear for TG, vice versa, with two two-handers SMF fans would do the same.
3.) The Fear of having to grind up and enhance two seperate Artifacts, in order to be competitive in your Raid and more importantly, to be VIABLE for your Raid.

I feel like, all of this gives Blizzard a chance to apply ONE Trait to the weapon, that fixes A LOT of problems and eradicates concerns of the Warrior-community that might come up. And it's not warrior-exclusive; the nature of Artifacts, as stated above, makes it impossible for them to not touch every specc at least a little, to tweak them all into a position where they're somewhat equally viable or at least exceed the others in a certain type of environment, players might be interested in.

It would also give it an interesting new turn, with which SMF and TG aren't working against each other on a general basis, but much rather have their significant strengths actually tied into the class and how you play. They are no longer a choice, but instead like Water and Fire. They don't go well together at the same time, but being able to trigger them when you need one of 'em? Hell yeah!

The expansion is about Class & Specc identity, right? It's one of their "big things", this time. So I doubt they'd leave Arms and Fury untouched to begin with, as stated above. Because both have very common oppinions applied to them, on WHERE they belong in terms of PvE and PvP.

And on a more personal basis: I don't think proccy playstyles are fun AT ALL. It's mildly OK with Fury atm, if you ask me. But the challenge shouldn't be waiting for RNGesus to hear your prayers. The challenge should be CONTROLLABLE. YOU, the Player, should be able to tackle the challenge by learning and executing the given Playstyle RIGHT.

Agreed. I like the idea of weapon size based on rage as long as we control it. I also think the fury weapons are way underwhelming. Was really hoping for some badass TG weapons.

[Deleted]

-wrong thread-

[Meraxes BE]

The weapons look much better here to me. The blue one is the weakest. The upgraded one (second top) and the bottom two look interesting. They seem to have this Dragon motif going, with the top of the weapon having a dragon eye and snout.

[Deleted]

The weapons look much better here to me. The blue one is the weakest. The upgraded one (second top) and the bottom two look interesting. They seem to have this Dragon motif going, with the top of the weapon having a dragon eye and snout.

I think color can be changed ...

[Meraxes BE]

yeah the colour of all of them can be changed

[Warriorsarri]

Meat Cleave is dead'ish. Press WW and all attacks AoE for a short while.

[Deleted]

"When you are enraged, you can use raging blow as many times as you want"

Holy shit jizz in my pants.

[Jaybee9084]

Watching BLizzcon right now, fury warrior changes posted up

No more meat cleaver charges, you use whirlwind and your abilities cleave for a few sec after

Can spam raging blow while Enrage is up, no more charges. They also had Bloodsurge up on there, but didnt say anything about it, so Im just gonna hope they made it only affect 1 wild strike or something

edit; beaten to the punch ;_;

[Freedom]

And, on the weapons, what's more, they look like they might be two handed in later stages. Even assuming that the top, first version is a one hander, comparatively, the other version are.... maybe 50% longer total in length than the first stage, going on X coordinates from pommel to end in XnView.


2-3 minutes work aligning the hilts properly to see what I mean.

•Empowering - Your character is powerful, total control over what you are doing, use abilities the way you want to use them.
•Death Knight runes restricted gameplay, so there are now 6 runes, one type, don't worry about what types are off cooldown anymore.
•Fury Warrior is controlled by how many charges you have of different things. Use Enraging Blow as much as you want. Use Whirlwind, don't worry about Meat Cleaver.

While using RB as many times as you want might sound good on paper, look at it in context. They're getting rid of the differentiation between DK rune types at the same time.

Along with the Fury RB change, sound like they're just removing a lot of the gameplay and complexity. From one extreme of RNG, to "Mash the button". What was wrong with MoP Fury, exactly? Even pre-SoO...

I'm reminded of other game companies saying, "Do it YOUR way!" And not in a good way.

[Meraxes BE]

I think they are all the same size. They have just made the base model smaller, its the same on some of the other pictures like the Doomhammer one and even on the gun in the bigger picture above.

[Panthos]

I'm not liking any of those fury artifacts.. They all look so bland when other classes have things like Ashbringer. I'm also not keen on the continuing dumbing down of classes either.

[Jaybee9084]

Tg just confirmed alive, said the current artifacts were just too small.

Also tom said dual wielding two-handers was iconic for fury warriors

i said "-snip-" before this got edited by a mod :^)

Edited again

[Deleted]

TG Kreygasm.

[Meraxes BE]

Titans Grip is alive! Size those up and i'll happily wield 2 dragon swords!

[Deleted]

Thank god!

[Deleted]

So freaking happy tg is staying. was worried for a bit that we would lose it!