Fury Legion Discussion

[adt1980]

Couple of questions.

1- What alliance race is best with fury? I was told gnomes.
2- The best food is mastery still? What about the fel one from Tannan Jungle?

[Deleted]

Couple of questions.

1- What alliance race is best with fury? I was told gnomes.
2- The best food is mastery still? What about the fel one from Tannan Jungle?

The difference between races is so small , I would just go whit whichever u like the most.

[Roiids]

Because it's not your strongest ability first off, it's not even in the top 3. Second off, because Bloodthirst isn't a reliable way of activating Enrage, and maintaining Enrage matters much more to the rotation than a little bit of extra ability damage.

The only real benefit of Carnage is that it allows you to access Rampage earlier when you need it. That definitely makes it "worth taking" (do note that I didn't say it wasn't), but especially with current/end of expansion gear, it's quite easy to chain Enrage without the use of Rampage, in which case, there's little use in using it and overwriting the effect. Because of this, it's quite easy to rage cap without dropping Enrage, making Carnage's reduced rage cost not wholly useless, but much less impacting.

That Carnage nerf is def noticeable in the rotation.

Regarding furious slash if you take Avatar over WB, you actually do press it on occasion but really not often even without WB procs. Its basically a situation where everything is on CD and you don't have enough rage for Rampage so you hit one FS in hopes it buffs your BT for a crit/enrage. But even at ~48% haste I barely get one in before BT/RB CD is up. I am def not a fan of it.

[adt1980]

I like doing the most dps. Trying to min max gets me going.

[Murlocbait]

I like doing the most dps. Trying to min max gets me going.

Go back 5-10 pages in this thread (or maybe it was the Arms one, i don't remember) and you'll find a post with the rankings.

[Archimtiros]

Regardless, anyone who's currently doing speed kills in current (prepatch) content, should still be running Carnage over Massacre, as it (Massacre) gives none to little value, as the bosses wil go through the last 20% in very few seconds.

I don't agree with that, maybe when you stack 10 fire mages, but if you're doing speed kills, you shouldn't be bringing a Warrior to begin with unless it's just to get them free no-skill ranks.

Playing seriously, it really depends on your raid and the boss in question. Archimonde and Mannoroth certainly have long enough Execute phases to matter. Remember that the majority of people on these forums looking for such guidance certainly haven't been farming HFC for the last year either.

Regardless, the point still stands that Carnage doesn't do much for your rotation if you're purposefully delaying Rampage, which is the best way to play right now, so even if you're not getting much out of Massacre, you're probably not getting much out of Carnage either. This is also where percentages come in; 20% is still 20%, even if your Execute phase only lasts 20s, the rest of the fight is only going to be 80s in comparison.

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That Carnage nerf is def noticeable in the rotation.

Regarding furious slash if you take Avatar over WB, you actually do press it on occasion but really not often even without WB procs. Its basically a situation where everything is on CD and you don't have enough rage for Rampage so you hit one FS in hopes it buffs your BT for a crit/enrage. But even at ~48% haste I barely get one in before BT/RB CD is up. I am def not a fan of it.

Haste affects FS at the same rate it affects BT/RB, so if you're using Inner Rage, you will always only get one in between, no matter how high your Haste is.

[Woogle]

Archimonde and Mannoroth certainly have long enough Execute phases to matter.
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A few questions on the new Execute phase

1. Do we keep Bloodthirst on CD in the execute phase? If Massacre is talented, we can use Rampage to keep up enrage right?
2. Execute regardless of rage amount? or do we wait till it is above 40 rage to maximize the dmg for execute?

[Archimtiros]

A few questions on the new Execute phase

1. Do we keep Bloodthirst on CD in the execute phase? If Massacre is talented, we can use Rampage to keep up enrage right?
2. Execute regardless of rage amount? or do we wait till it is above 40 rage to maximize the dmg for execute?

1. If Massacre is talented, and you have a good crit rate (or luck), use Execute -> Rampage -> RB -> WB if talented -> Execute and repeat. Prioritize Execute outside of Enrage to keep Enrage going.

2. That's Arms.

[Artunias]

Regardless, the point still stands that Carnage doesn't do much for your rotation if you're purposefully delaying Rampage, which is the best way to play right now, so even if you're not getting much out of Massacre, you're probably not getting much out of Carnage either. This is also where percentages come in; 20% is still 20%, even if your Execute phase only lasts 20s, the rest of the fight is only going to be 80s in comparison.

I agree that Carnage might not be as awesome at 100 as it is at 110 due to our class trinket and just high stats in general. It definitely sucks a whole helluva lot to play without Carnage on the beta though. Not to mention it being the much more versatile talent and almost no boss being only single target anymore.

[Nakotsu]

Just a quick question as thread-search didnt give me an answer.
What weapons do we use in the prepatch in general? 1-Hand or 2-Hand?

fury uses 2h and can use either 1 2h or 2 2h Personally what I use.

[Timberwind]

fury uses 2h and can use either 1 2h or 2 2h Personally what I use.

You can't use 1 2h very effectivly as it gimps half your attacks, most importantly, Raging blow our largest damaging ability. Blizzard has made it so that 2 2h weapons is the only effective way to play fury.

[Deleted]

Because it's not your strongest ability first off, it's not even in the top 3. Second off, because Bloodthirst isn't a reliable way of activating Enrage, and maintaining Enrage matters much more to the rotation than a little bit of extra ability damage.

The only real benefit of Carnage is that it allows you to access Rampage earlier when you need it. That definitely makes it "worth taking" (do note that I didn't say it wasn't), but especially with current/end of expansion gear, it's quite easy to chain Enrage without the use of Rampage, in which case, there's little use in using it and overwriting the effect. Because of this, it's quite easy to rage cap without dropping Enrage, making Carnage's reduced rage cost not wholly useless, but much less impacting.

Oh I thought we was talking Rampage not BT...

[Golden]

Anyone else sad to see the demise of 2x 1H Fury?

It would be nice if Blizz allowed fury warriors to transmog 2handers to 1handers.

[Archimtiros]

Oh I thought we was talking Rampage not BT...

We are talking about Rampage, are you not even reading?

[Bigbazz]

I see a lot of people saying drop the 4 set for Fury, did some raiding tonight with my new guild (first since start of the year) and then some simming after it. Using the default action list the sim at least believes the 4 set is worth keeping over a 20ilvl increase on 1 item and 15 ilvl on another (735 T18 chest vs 750 Iron Reave, and 735 T18 shoulders + socket vs 755 Archi shoulders + socket), with haste at over 19% with haste food, just under 18% otherwise with both gearsets. Looking at our Iron Reaver log I did get 2 uses of battle cry in 43 seconds, and the simcraft over a 2 min fight shows 4 uses of Battle Cry.

I guess with only 2-3 real single target fights it's pretty irrelevant in either case. Also hard to know whether to use WB or Avatar, lots of impressive logs with both on many fights, WB seems to have plenty of times where it just doesn't proc on the pull making it a massive waste compared to Avatar. Fury at 100 seems pretty lacklustre, no particular strengths, I guess it has nice 3-5 target cleave if you can tunnel one target to keep the haste buff up.

[Seramore]

I haven't necessarily heard anyone say to drop the 4pc, just that you shouldn't be building your rotation around it and should treat it like a passive effect.

[Khelon]

I see a lot of people saying drop the 4 set for Fury, did some raiding tonight with my new guild (first since start of the year) and then some simming after it. Using the default action list the sim at least believes the 4 set is worth keeping over a 20ilvl increase on 1 item and 15 ilvl on another (735 T18 chest vs 750 Iron Reave, and 735 T18 shoulders + socket vs 755 Archi shoulders + socket), with haste at over 19% with haste food, just under 18% otherwise with both gearsets. Looking at our Iron Reaver log I did get 2 uses of battle cry in 43 seconds, and the simcraft over a 2 min fight shows 4 uses of Battle Cry.

I guess with only 2-3 real single target fights it's pretty irrelevant in either case. Also hard to know whether to use WB or Avatar, lots of impressive logs with both on many fights, WB seems to have plenty of times where it just doesn't proc on the pull making it a massive waste compared to Avatar. Fury at 100 seems pretty lacklustre, no particular strengths, I guess it has nice 3-5 target cleave if you can tunnel one target to keep the haste buff up.

If you are likely to use WW for cleaving WB is a really great option, especially when you get to use reck along with it and you're already enraged. Avatar seems like a better choice when the fights are not going to have small periods of cleave (zakuun etc). But because it doesnt exactly line up with the ring, it only really becomes the clear winner when you only get 1-2 ring uses and no more.

@Archimtiros I do agree with you that massacre is the better choice for most of the time when we have so much rage to work with and spec WB (less globals available to use BT/RB), but after testing it in raids where fights are stupidly short, carnage seems to be the better choice. Its mostly not because of the rage waste, but because execute phases dont really allow you to get more than maybe 4-5 massacre procs (which is not that much). You also get to cycle between rb/rampage/bt all the time, even if it means you override the enrage buff, you would rather press rampage than FS.

But then again it kinda comes down to how much you want to gamble aswell. if that BT after your rampage crits, you are almost ensured enough time to build up rage for rampage before enrage drops off.

Carnage is probably going to be less appealing when you get the legendary helm and execute ring.

[Deleted]

[...]

Regardless, the point still stands that Carnage doesn't do much for your rotation if you're purposefully delaying Rampage, which is the best way to play right now, [...]

how exactly do you play that?
I am still very confused about how you want to pull that off. Following your priority system on icy veins you would do something like bt(enrage)-rb-fs (we assume you have enough rage for rampage now instead of gamble for bt your priority system says press rampage now, because no enrage up rampage>bt. And I am running into this situation quite often. Do we really play with a priority system or is it all over bt-x-x-bt again and then only use rampage if we are in danger to drop enrage, im really confused, sorry.
Checking the top logs for every fight in hfc mythic, people are going with bt-x-x-bt rotation, but I yield almost the same results on many fights with going full priority system, whats better now?
Im sitting here with like ???? whats right and whats wrong?

[Bigbazz]

how exactly do you play that?
I am still very confused about how you want to pull that off. Following your priority system on icy veins you would do something like bt(enrage)-rb-fs (we assume you have enough rage for rampage now instead of gamble for bt your priority system says press rampage now, because no enrage up rampage>bt. And I am running into this situation quite often. Do we really play with a priority system or is it all over bt-x-x-bt again and then only use rampage if we are in danger to drop enrage, im really confused, sorry.
Checking the top logs for every fight in hfc mythic, people are going with bt-x-x-bt rotation, but I yield almost the same results on many fights with going full priority system, whats better now?
Im sitting here with like ???? whats right and whats wrong?

I think this one comes down to the fact that multiple approaches to the rotation are very close on damage and RNG + raid strategy/DPS distribution is playing a much larger factor. Min-maxing down to the finer point on rotation is not that important, while timing of cooldowns, strategy, RNG etc is very important.

I think this happens with talents too. I've seen people running Wrecking Ball, Avatar, Inner Rage, Bloodbath in different combinations and pulling off very strong dps on a variety of fights, the fights are so short that mostly raid tactics brute force (like some people running no healers Zakuun just for speed kill) work and the biggest factor on your individual dps in those situations is how well RNG favoured you.

If you are likely to use WW for cleaving WB is a really great option, especially when you get to use reck along with it and you're already enraged. Avatar seems like a better choice when the fights are not going to have small periods of cleave (zakuun etc). But because it doesnt exactly line up with the ring, it only really becomes the clear winner when you only get 1-2 ring uses and no more..

Yeah, I've seen both Avatar/WB do really well in those situations when I checked WCLogs. Today I was just delaying Avatar for the ring when we got 2 uses, but really I can't salvage much from todays raid because it was extremely messy, it's hard to really make any evaluations/assessments when you don't have a somewhat clean and structured successful kill on any of the fights, well aside from Reaver/Zakuun.

Either way I don't feel I got the most out of it today, so felt a bit disapointed and unsure. 6+ months break though and HFC is still a boring raid, especially without Nuclear bomb Bladestorm/Execute.. I prefer Legion Arms/Fury at 110 but in HFC I preferred WOD specs.

[Deleted]

I think this one comes down to the fact that multiple approaches to the rotation are very close on damage and RNG + raid strategy/DPS distribution is playing a much larger factor. Min-maxing down to the finer point on rotation is not that important, while timing of cooldowns, strategy, RNG etc is very important.

I think this happens with talents too. I've seen people running Wrecking Ball, Avatar, Inner Rage, Bloodbath in different combinations and pulling off very strong dps on a variety of fights, the fights are so short that mostly raid tactics brute force (like some people running no healers Zakuun just for speed kill) work and the biggest factor on your individual dps in those situations is how well RNG favoured you.

Yes, that might be true but I dont get what is the right way now. What is the right approach? Do we have a proven support for what is the right way? Is it worth delaying bt, what happens quite often when you perform the priority system, or is a standard rotation the right approach? Questions over questions, but no right answer, its annoying me. I cant seem to find the answer myself, because whatever I choose to believe could be only subjective.