Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[ymirsson]

So you gain maybe half a second, in which you can do what? RT is still triggering the GCD.

[Genericrogue]

My setup takes three spaces on the action bar, but only one twitch of the finger to use all three. No matter how fast your reflexes are, it's still faster to twitch once than 3 times.

Try this one. click button to turn on BF. Ctrl / shift / alt click to turn off:

#showtooltip
/cancelaura [mod] Blade Flurry
/cast !Blade Flurry

[dicertification]

Try this one. click button to turn on BF. Ctrl / shift / alt click to turn off:

#showtooltip
/cancelaura [mod] Blade Flurry
/cast !Blade Flurry

Can't tell if serious...

[Deleted]

Why Fatebringer is still in the game is a bit beyond me. It's just so, so sad now.

Loaded Dice is also garbage but the sheer sadnesss of Fatebringer beggars belief.

[Flutterguy]

Every patch Fatebringer has been lowered by 1. lol So next patch, removed?

[kyriacosvlachos]

I really hope that Outlaw gets some love in 7.2.5 because I have put massive amounts of effort into this spec. I love RtB and I hope that they don't nerf it into the ground next balance patch and force us to use the bland SnD all the time.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Just posted this in the appropriate B-net forums (Class Development, PTR). I know Blizz doesn't frequent MMO-C as much, but thought I'd share here too:

I'm taking a break from the game to come tell Blizz "Thanks!" for finally working to make Outlaw less frustrating. I love the ideas for the class, love being a pirate, using the saber/pistol combo... I just don't like fishing for buffs over and over during a fight. I wouldn't mind some RNG, if it did what Blizz stated was the intention: pushing us to adapt our mode of play. But I much prefer the idea of getting some result, adapting, and fighting, rather than feeling like I'm in a holding pattern re-rolling till I get the one best buff.

I've also suggested they balance SnD as a viable option so we're not forced to play RtB until we agree it's fixed. I agree that RtB could be more fun than SnD, but I want us to be able to choose it because we like it rather than being forced to play it if we want competitive DPS.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=261813/r...-7-2-5-changes

This post suggests they're working toward everything I've been advocating for: less re-rolling and more choice. I am excited about these changes, promise to be patient as they are tuned, and look forward to trying them out. Blizz - sincerely - THANK YOU for working on this!

[scrappybristol]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/8...-true-bearing/

[Deleted]

Finally something that goes in the right way. But I am concerned if SnD will not top RtB. SnD is not really a dps loss currently (I think not having marked for death is the sole dps loss on fight with adds).

[satimy]

How legendary dependant is outlaw vs the other rogue specs ?

[Deleted]

about the same as assa less than sub i think

[shrunken]

How legendary dependant is outlaw vs the other rogue specs ?

It's as legendary dependent as the other specs, which is to say very.

- - - Updated - - -

People need to stop begging to "balance SnD to make it viable". There is no way that it can be made viable without simply being made overpowered so long as it shares a tier with Marked for Death. I don't know how this community hasn't come to terms with that by now. SnD will not be better than MfD+RtB unless True Bearing is completely 100% separated from RtB and baked into the spec (preferably in place of Blurred Time because that gold trait is laughable).

I'm willing to hear them out on their current set of ideas, but Outlaw has other issues as well. It has never had PVP viability without a grotesque gimmick.

When they gutted Shark Buff, they left Outlaw in a state where it could only fish for True Bearing so it could blind every 20 seconds. When they gutted True Bearing, Outlaws had to wait until Frost Mage stacking damage got ridiculous enough to make Tricks of the Trade our 1 ticket to viability again and only for a limited number of players with access to high quality legion Frost Mages to begin with.

Outlaw has no dots so it suffers a 9-1 matchup against either of the other rogue specs. It has no magic damage so it is heavily mitigated by plate classes and the scourge of Legion that has been resto druid bear form. It has no Mortal Strike in any capacity so there's no remnant of Outlaw's pressure once the Rogue is peeled off the target. And lastly, in light of that last point and the removal of Riposte from True Bearing & the huge increase in Feint's energy cost, Outlaw can't go toe to toe with anything. Hard to swashbuckle when a swordfight is the last place you can handle being against competent players.

Outlaw needs a couple of things beyond changes to Roll the Bones. I believe the spec should have Grappling Hook baseline as a 1min CD *unaffected* by restless blades/true bearing, and a talent to reduce it to its current 30sec CD in place of the Grappling Hook talent in that tree. The reason for this is that anyone using Thraxi's Tricksy Treads for instance is forced to spec out of Grappling Hook in any raid or dungeon scenario because Hit & Run becomes a throughput talent.

Beyond this, Outlaw needs either a small dot baked into Pistol Shot to simply counter the fact that it has no way to address a restealthing rogue 2 feet around a pillar, or it needs some % of Mortal Strike baked into pistol shot procs. If this spec is ever going to grow beyond relying on developer oversights or being a walking 30sec buff for a partner, some thought needs to be put into this.

Personally, I don't roll my eyes when blizz talks about "class fantasy". I have been an avid hater of Combat Rogue for years; the last time I played with swords was early in TBC. Outlaw has me swashbuckling, pistoling, and generally enjoying a style of rogue that I used to absolutely loathe. And it's a good thing too, because I'm no fan of what was done to Subtlety.

[Redecle]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/8...-true-bearing/

That's the best damn thing they've said and "done" in the last 6 months.
One could always argue for more, well less true bearing and more restless blades,
but i think i'm actually fine how that is planned to be.
All i've really wanted is Restless Blades back together with SnD since launch.
We'll have to wait and see, so far the plan is a blue post on the forum and 7.2.5 is still some ways ahead, but hopefully they'll stick with it.
Last time it got exciting when Loaded Dice was said to have a buff for SnD, the result was mediocre at best.
But it seems like someone has been listening all along.

My body is ready. Restless Blades on the deck and i've got nothing more to say.

[Charlooo]

Is anyone getting the issue where after using ambush it doesn't switch to the normal buttons you use and keeps you in invis buttons for like half a second. It's making me have to wait every time I use ambush.

[Deleted]

That's the best damn thing they've said and "done" in the last 6 months.
One could always argue for more, well less true bearing and more restless blades,
but i think i'm actually fine how that is planned to be.
All i've really wanted is Restless Blades back together with SnD since launch.
We'll have to wait and see, so far the plan is a blue post on the forum and 7.2.5 is still some ways ahead, but hopefully they'll stick with it.
Last time it got exciting when Loaded Dice was said to have a buff for SnD, the result was mediocre at best.
But it seems like someone has been listening all along.

My body is ready. Restless Blades on the deck and i've got nothing more to say.

I don't agree with that.
The point was supposed to be "fix RtB"
The simple solution was: make TB a passive and balance it. Less buff, easier to balance and potential rerolling series.

Their proposal : make it part passive, part of RtB... seems even more complicated to balance than actual settings (moreover as you show it, with SnD in the loop)...

*disappointed*

[Deleted]

I don't agree with that.
The point was supposed to be fix RtB rerolling needs.

If we agree that the problem comes from TB, the simple solution (often the best) was make it a passive and balance it's value.
Less buff to balance less RNG and still significant buffs keeping the "spirit" of RtB.

The solution they envision: part passive, part of RtB.
IMO it'll be even more complex to balance!

And if they stick with "one buff most of the time", I'm not really happy with the 7.2.5 vision.
A good diagnosis, not that good proposals yet

W&S but I'm not optimistic.

[Xanatu]

I think this is a great change but I'm skeptical that having the class balanced around 1-buffing is the solution. I feel like it should be balanced around a no-TB 2 buff. It'd make the artifact trait super useful and let you do your rotation without rerolling 6000 times. But this is a huge improvement.

[Don the Insane]

I want to pose this question on the official forums, but I got myself banned for starting a forum riot over the artful dodging mask.

Why would it not be possible to simply swap SnD and RtB, making SnD baseline again, and RtB a top tier talent. It was like this in early alpha. That way you could balance SnD+MfD against RtB, instead of how it is now? I love restless blades coming back, it's a good first step to restoring the spec I've loved for so long.

It just seems logically obvious to me that SnD should have been baseline and RtB the talent.

This presents choice. Do I want a press and forget maintainable buff, along with a nice utility ability, or do I want less buttons, and a buff that requires a bit of attention and has a risk/reward elament. Perhaps the way to handle RtB in that situation, where it can be allowed to be more powerful than SnD by a fair margin, is to grant successive re rolls a greater chance to proc more buffs, negating, what I feel is the major problem with the ability, which is repeatedly rolling 1s in a fight which feels terrible. It could allow you to engineer your output a bit. Personal opinion, making 1 buff rolls the standard, is the wrong way to treat the problem.

SnD not even being a viable choice as a lvl 100 talent is bad design. You can't dispute that. Why is it even in the game at that point?

If anyone here thinks this, or some version of it, could potentially work, I'd love to get it in that official thread in front of a dev's eyes. I wish I could, but again, banned for trying to get the artful dodger mask bug looked at last patch.

[Xanatu]

I want to pose this question on the official forums, but I got myself banned for starting a forum riot over the artful dodging mask.

Why would it not be possible to simply swap SnD and RtB, making SnD baseline again, and RtB a top tier talent. It was like this in early alpha. That way you could balance SnD+MfD against RtB, instead of how it is now? I love restless blades coming back, it's a good first step to restoring the spec I've loved for so long.

It just seems logically obvious to me that SnD should have been baseline and RtB the talent.

SND shouldn't be in the game. RTB is THE core flavor mechanic of outlaw. The fact that they let people opt out of it is stupid.

[Don the Insane]

SND shouldn't be in the game. RTB is THE core flavor mechanic of outlaw. The fact that they let people opt out of it is stupid.

My mistake. I've been laboring under the impression that I was playing a mmoRPG, where choice and customization of playstyle were options. Why even have talents? I didn't realize my rogue that I've played for years, inexplicably had to be a pirate now.

What if they rename SnD to "YARR" and have it make your toon shout "AVAST ME HEARTIES" while swinging on a rope from the mast of an invisible pirate ship with a dagger clenched in his teeth? Would that be the right "flavor"?

Blizz hire me, plz.