Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[jk5834]

Before I decide to play outlaw this patch can anyone tell me if you'll still need to reroll RTB until you get a certain setup?

It's looking like no for the most part. The only time to re-roll is if you get GM only, or if you get GM with any buff other than TB and you have loaded dice. Even then, it's only a marginal gain to re-roll.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[glowpipe]

Now that dice fishing is no longer a part of the gameplay i decided to try outlaw in our last NH raid tomorrow.

Never really played it. One question. Do i always delay to line up curse+adrenaline rush ? Even if its like 30 sec til curse comes of cooldown ? Or should i open with them together and then use on cooldown for the most part until there is like a small delay to line them up ? like 10 sec or less ?

[Tniemuth95]

Open with them together and then use them both on CD unless they're only like 10-15 seconds apart like you said. Not sure how it will line up in 7.2.5 but in 7.2 I almost always had AR lining up with dreadblades thanks to true bearing and CoF

[Deleted]

Now that dice fishing is no longer a part of the gameplay i decided to try outlaw in our last NH raid tomorrow.

Never really played it. One question. Do i always delay to line up curse+adrenaline rush ? Even if its like 30 sec til curse comes of cooldown ? Or should i open with them together and then use on cooldown for the most part until there is like a small delay to line them up ? like 10 sec or less ?

there are pretty good guides around, go read one. delaying a major dps cd by 30 secs will kill your dps...

[RobertoCarlos]

there are pretty good guides around, go read one. delaying a major dps cd by 30 secs will kill your dps...

Got a link to said guide? Or did you just wanna be the internet cool guy and make fun of others asking for help?

[jk5834]

Got a link to said guide? Or did you just wanna be the internet cool guy and make fun of others asking for help?

I didn't take that as him being an ass at all, though I could just be seeing the best in people.

That being said, Icy Veins isn't a terrible place to start for beginners.

[RobertoCarlos]

I didn't take that as him being an ass at all, though I could just be seeing the best in people.

That being said, Icy Veins isn't a terrible place to start for beginners.

Eh my experience on these rogues forums it's normally someone being a brag when "helping" someone. Not that hard to put in a link rather than a vague statement about guides that could vary in quality

[glowpipe]

I didn't take that as him being an ass at all, though I could just be seeing the best in people.

That being said, Icy Veins isn't a terrible place to start for beginners.

Thats the thing. I did read icy veins before asking here and it said this "You should always pair Curse of the Dreadblades with your Adrenaline Rush unless the boss will die before Adrenaline Rush comes off of cooldown."

Thats why i asked here because to me. Delaying a skill so much that you might skip a few activations of the cd in a fight just seem outright wrong to me.

[RobertoCarlos]

Thats the thing. I did read icy veins before asking here and it said this "You should always pair Curse of the Dreadblades with your Adrenaline Rush unless the boss will die before Adrenaline Rush comes off of cooldown."

Thats why i asked here because to me. Delaying a skill so much that you might skip a few activations of the cd in a fight just seem outright wrong to me.

imo delaying skills with outlaw is treason. May as well make the most of the baseline true bearing. That said changes to Adrenaline Rush Energy regeneration increase reduced to 60% (was 100%). Duration increased to 20 seconds (was 15 seconds). Changes don't look that bad to make AR terrible without curse

[WoWnoob]

Last time i asked i got told to save vanish AND curse until i roll TB, so i could get the vanish cd fast.

[Deleted]

You always blew all your cds when they're coming. If vanish is up and MfD in a few secs you can wait, but not more.

[Deleted]

That said changes to Adrenaline Rush Energy regeneration increase reduced to 60% (was 100%). Duration increased to 20 seconds (was 15 seconds). Changes don't look that bad to make AR terrible without curse

I like how they said it's a positive change for us while actually nerfing AR by like foking 25%.

[Mascotte]

Just looted [The Curse of Restlessness] from one of my legionfall containers but does anyone have an idea where it ranks compared to the other legendaries?
Simcraft is telling me its a 100k dps loss compared to Greenskins (either have to drop GS or Mantle to be able to use it) but im guessing that cant be correct?

[Deleted]

Has anybody done testing on S&D vs MfD / DfA yet?

I'm asking because my calculations have shown that S&D outperforms the other both talents even with the wrong stat weights in single- and multi target fights by a fair amount. If I fully commit and calculate new stat weights and gear accordingly, that gap will propably become too large for any serious player to ignore.

I'm just wondering no one here made that observation already. Usually this is the place where I read about stuff like that first. Could it be because I don't have the bracers yet? But even then I am not sure that it will differ much, since you get half true bearings for free all the time now and beside broadsides, the new buffs don't even look so strong.

[Deleted]

Has anybody done testing on S&D vs MfD / DfA yet?

I'm asking because my calculations have shown that S&D outperforms the other both talents even with the wrong stat weights in single- and multi target fights by a fair amount. If I fully commit and calculate new stat weights and gear accordingly, that gap will propably become too large for any serious player to ignore.

I'm just wondering no one here made that observation already. Usually this is the place where I read about stuff like that first. Could it be because I don't have the bracers yet? But even then I am not sure that it will differ much, since you get half true bearings for free all the time now and beside broadsides, the new buffs don't even look so strong.

I tested SnD this morning, with RtB I wasnt even getting 700k on a dummy, but with SnD I had a steady 730k+ (I used the 10% auto attack dmg ring and nightblooming fond trinket) The playstyle is also very fast and spammy with the smoothened out energy gains.

Slice and Dice for me is a big dps boost over MfD and RtB on single target.
For mythics+ I don't know, haven't been able to test it yet.

I'd say every rogue needs to try it.

[Xanatu]

Just looted [The Curse of Restlessness] from one of my legionfall containers but does anyone have an idea where it ranks compared to the other legendaries?
Simcraft is telling me its a 100k dps loss compared to Greenskins (either have to drop GS or Mantle to be able to use it) but im guessing that cant be correct?

It does not sim well. Bracers are by far the best legendary for outlaw so they're irreplaceable. The choice is between cloak and shoulders, and again with vanish CD being lowered baseline now they just synergize really really well.

[Deleted]

Having SND for raiding and MFD for m+ would be a good choice to make.

[SSJones]

Anecdotal as all get out, but I ran a few M+ (14+ level) with a fellow guildy rogue yesterday. He as RtB and me as SnD. It was basically even. He didn't play a lot of Outlaw in the past and thought he was missing a lot of MfD reset potential - and I wasn't pushing AR cooldowns on trash as much as I might have been able to for SuperSlice, as I wanted to make sure it was up for boss openers. I was runnning Shoulders/Insignia, he was running Shoulders/Bracers most of the time, Shoulders/Insignia the others. I don't have Greenskin's yet, or I would have worn them some as well. I probably should have logged them.

Regardless, while I think MfD is probably better for M+, SnD seems viable at the moment.

My opinion on the future problem with SnD or RtB at the moment is that they are good and viable until you have to start wearing T20 from mythic ilvl. If you have 910+ T19 you can stay in, you'll probably be able to get away with outlaw through heroic ToS, and the beginning parts of Tomb progression. T20 is a noticable DPS loss to equal ilevel T19. The outlaw tier bonus nerfs are just too much for it to stay competitive with Sin and Sub. Hopefully they revert some of it, or give Outlaw a compensation buff of some kind.

It does not sim well. Bracers are by far the best legendary for outlaw so they're irreplaceable. The choice is between cloak and shoulders, and again with vanish CD being lowered baseline now they just synergize really really well.

Edit to add response this this: I think you're underestimating Insignia's buff due to greater number and quality of SaberSlashes. Insignia might be Outlaw's best or second best legendary again. I'm sure cloak will sim better once they optimize the APL for it, but it's a ways back right now.

[phoenixs4r]

I haven't been paying as much attention as I should have through the ptr... Icy veins lists roll for 2 or TB. Is this the consensus on the forum as well? I did heroic krosus last night and the feelcraft was that it was meh. How much lower percentage is 2 buffs vs last patch?

[SSJones]

I haven't been paying as much attention as I should have through the ptr... Icy veins lists roll for 2 or TB. Is this the consensus on the forum as well? I did heroic krosus last night and the feelcraft was that it was meh. How much lower percentage is 2 buffs vs last patch?

The new roll logic is to just reroll for any 2 - only with loaded dice. You should almost never have to stick with a single, and if you do it shouldn't be for long. If you're stuck with a single for some reason, only reroll if it is Grand Melee.