Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[hc7]

So Ive been playing a lot of Sin recently and I do like it a lot, but I just unlocked the thunder fury hidden outlaw appearance and was going to do some dungeons with the appearance and went to test out RtB vs SnD on the dummies. Now my gear is a little bit more mastery heavy because I was playing sin and because I believe with SnD Mastery and crit have been top 2 stats for me with vers a little bit behind at 3rd. My stats look something like 31-32% crit 60% mastery 10% vers and like 9% haste.
On the dummies, SnD for me was like 100k+ dps consistent better than RtB even with only sticking with 2 buffs and it definitely feels better for sure.
Also just got Sephuz's secret so that should help a lot too, I really want outlaw to work and even more so SnD but sin is definitely better, was putting up better dps even with my Sin artifact only being like 850 ilvl at the time.

[Sephiroso]

Otherwise I personally think that SM will go ahead with the 2pT21 bonus, what do you think ??

They need to get rid of the stacking nature of the buff from extra SS and just make it to where you get a flat dmg bonus on your next RT if you get an SS proc. I think the latest itiration reads 5% extra RT dmg, stacking up to 4 times? This makes no sense to begin with. Let's assume you start SSing from 0 combo points(which is never but lets ignore that) It would only take you 3 SS's even if all of them procc'd to get max combo points which is only 3 stacks. What's the point of having it stack to 4?

The above isn't even taking into account pistol shot usage either. Honestly everything about the 2pc is stupid. People ran away from Outlaw because of rng long ago, so blizzard thought, hey let's make their 2pc affect their dps at random, Outlaw players love rng right?

The only way i see this 2pc working is by using anticipation, but no one fucking uses anticipation, i don't see what they could do to make anticipation worth using aside from nuking deeper stratagem/vigor into the ground which isn't helpful.

They should just make it work like t20 2pc does. SS extra proc increases dmg of RT by like 8-10%. Maybe a little more.

[hc7]

For those of you guys who have been playing SnD like me and actually liking it better, and tbh, it seems like its testing higher on the dummy for me vs RtB. What are your stat priorities looking like?
I have crit still ahead but by a very small margin followed closely by vers and mastery. I think my stats are something like 39% crit, 58% mast, 15% hate and 9% vers. While crit is definitely starting to lose its value now,
Also what talents are you running? I have been thinking of giving vigor a try over DS just because it seems like I get energy capped at times.
Any other SnD guys with input?

[Nekroman]

Not playing outlaw much atm but if you are energy capping vigor will make it worse not better.

[Deleted]

I play SnD. It sims and performs better than RtB. And with the added bonus that it does not feel rng. I have vers as highest rated stat but crit is very very close. Mastery not so much. My trinkets er CoF and Specter/glaives.
My only concern is that at current, snd has a nice flow with nearly 100 % uptime on enhanced snd from AR because of CoF. That trinket is too damn good and Blizzard has said that they will nerf it before ABT is released. Outlaw will feel chunky without it.

[Sephiroso]

I play SnD. It sims and performs better than RtB. And with the added bonus that it does not feel rng. I have vers as highest rated stat but crit is very very close. Mastery not so much. My trinkets er CoF and Specter/glaives.
My only concern is that at current, snd has a nice flow with nearly 100 % uptime on enhanced snd from AR because of CoF. That trinket is too damn good and Blizzard has said that they will nerf it before ABT is released. Outlaw will feel chunky without it.

should be using nightblooming frond if you're playing as snd instead of spectre for st

[Deleted]

should be using nightblooming frond if you're playing as snd instead of spectre for st

I believe specter simmed higher but I may be wrong. Thank you, will check it.

[Scatterblack]

Doesn't matter if Spectre simmed higher. NBF outperforms it with SnD. Remember that code can be wrong, especially for trinkets.

With SnD you want:
CoF and NBF trinkets.
Jeweled Signet of Melandrus for the 10% Autoattack.
Vigor and Swordmaster for AOE.
Deeper Strategem and Ghostly Strike for single target.
Mantle + Insignia always.

[Feali]

But will it ever outperform Sub?

[Sephiroso]

But will it ever outperform Sub?

Same traits, same ilvl weapon, same level of optimized gear? No.

[Deleted]

Same traits, same ilvl weapon, same level of optimized gear? No.

But that is why we get massive buffs for 7.3 (at it is now, at least).

[Xelion]

MASSIVE BUFFS!!! (isn't it still a 4% buff or has something changed?)

[Deleted]

They are showing effort to tweak talents and spells instead of aura tuning, at least.

[Xelion]

Buffing every ability and then nerfing the aura is a pretty outstanding achievement for class designers tbf.

[Sephiroso]

Like i told someone else, i'll believe the buffs when i see it. Jumping for joy because Outlaw plays strong in PTR is a recipe for disappointment because it happens every fucking time and then blizzard smacks us in the face with one last little ninja update right before it goes live and they're like "GOTCHA"

[Mascotte]

What buffs are we talking about?

[Sephiroso]

What buffs are we talking about?

http://www.wowhead.com/news=268721/a...s-in-patch-7-3

Cliff notes is essentially just what Xelion just said. They are buffing pretty much every one of our abilities base damage, but they are nerfing our aura....which means its not that great of a buff.

The issues that plague outlaw still plague it. Moving goalposts on our dmg isn't going to stop those issues from being a thing. Outlaw still will suffer from downtime away from boss due to no dot, Outlaw's blade flurry should be buffed imo, not by much but slightly, we used to be competitive when it came to cleave/aoe dps, now we're not.

Outlaw still has shitty energy issues and new AR is so stupid i don't see what the point of the change was.

Like seriously, we have an ability called Run Through. We fucking run through the enemy with our weapon. RT should put up a stacking bleed or something on the target. Even if it was proc based i think that'd be fine. They need to do more than just moving dmg numbers around because thats all they've been doing from day 1 and i'm pretty sure everyone can agree that it aint helping. The one time they try to do more, they absolutely killed RtB with the TB nerf in addition to removing 3 buffs.

Outlaw needs grappling hook baseline too. Or give Outlaw shadowstep baseline like ass/sub has.

[Tniemuth95]

IMO the major thing outlaw is lacking is a decent hitting dot and some improved mobility. A hard hitting dot would boost our dps and make us better on fights with downtime. Something pirate themed would be awesome. Maybe a 20 second swarm of parrots? Or maybe we poison our target with rum or something. I still love outlaw but the lack of mobility unless you take grappling hook, and the subpar damage is crippling.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=268721/a...s-in-patch-7-3

Cliff notes is essentially just what Xelion just said. They are buffing pretty much every one of our abilities base damage, but they are nerfing our aura....which means its not that great of a buff.

Well shit, didn't catch that one. It is from 30% to 4%, WOW. Okay, we are done. That might be a net *nerf* even.

But maybe this is how Blizz gives us the outlaw experience. Our damage and utility is so bad, that no guild wants us and we are forced to live as a true outlaw of Azeroth, lol.

[Astearic]

Well shit, didn't catch that one. It is from 30% to 4%, WOW. Okay, we are done. That might be a net *nerf* even.

Going from that link it looks like they increased the abilities damage by 30 percent and then changed the aura from 30 to 4 percent, netting a 4% buff. Weird way to do it, unless they just wanted to make it look more than it is.