Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Flashbyy]

What do you guys think, is it a good raid spec or is there to much RNG? As far as I played it on the PTR it seems to be pretty funny

[RobertoCarlos]

What do you guys think, is it a good raid spec or is there to much RNG? As far as I played it on the PTR it seems to be pretty funny

Well its going to have a tough time beating out assass/sub which are both looking pretty strong now. Blade flurry seems so op but its such a tuning nightmare who knows where outlaw rogue will end up. Hopefully they tune specs more quickly in legion when you get clear out-liners. If you are set on going outlaw then go with it, if its shit at the start it will get buffed, blizzard wouldn't put this much effort into the class fantasy bullshit if no one is going to play it.

[Deleted]

The thing is the "Pirate, Yarr" angle has already lured in a ton of nabs, most of which probably dont even run damage meters or bother to check on relative class strengths, they just want to be a pirate, who cares that outlaw is massively undertuned atm. Look, im shooting cannonballs, matey.

[Frimelda]

Well its going to have a tough time beating out assass/sub which are both looking pretty strong now. Blade flurry seems so op but its such a tuning nightmare who knows where outlaw rogue will end up. Hopefully they tune specs more quickly in legion when you get clear out-liners. If you are set on going outlaw then go with it, if its shit at the start it will get buffed, blizzard wouldn't put this much effort into the class fantasy bullshit if no one is going to play it.

It wouldn't be such a problem if Artifacts weren't a thing in Legion. When you go your first spec it seems like you are investing in something and if Blizzard doesn't buff outlaw to a state that compare with with most specs then it feels like a really bad investment and you will always be behind in AF power for Sub and Ass.

[Mafic]

The thing is the "Pirate, Yarr" angle has already lured in a ton of nabs, most of which probably dont even run damage meters or bother to check on relative class strengths, they just want to be a pirate, who cares that outlaw is massively undertuned atm. Look, im shooting cannonballs, matey.

I think the problem is that the spec without consistent cool down reduction is in a problematic situation. How will Blizz tune Outlaw DPS?

[Flashbyy]

It wouldn't be such a problem if Artifacts weren't a thing in Legion. When you go your first spec it seems like you are investing in something and if Blizzard doesn't buff outlaw to a state that compare with with most specs then it feels like a really bad investment and you will always be behind in AF power for Sub and Ass.

That's exactly what I'm thinking about. It is kind of an investment, but to be honest that makes it good. Like in Vanilla when you had to choose between 2 different blacksmithing specializations. It makes yourself kind of unique. Anyway, no matter how much fun a spec is, in the end you'll cry when you are not even close to be competetive whith your spec.

[Mcbenchpress]

The thing is the "Pirate, Yarr" angle has already lured in a ton of nabs, most of which probably dont even run damage meters or bother to check on relative class strengths, they just want to be a pirate, who cares that outlaw is massively undertuned atm. Look, im shooting cannonballs, matey.

God forbid players enjoy a spec based strictly on flavor. I think Outlaw is one of the best redesigns they've done. Not everything is about performance and meters.

WITH THAT SAID, as an officer in a top 200 raiding guild, I probably won't have any Outlaws on my roster lol.

[Frimelda]

God forbid players enjoy a spec based strictly on flavor. I think Outlaw is one of the best redesigns they've done. Not everything is about performance and meters.

WITH THAT SAID, as an officer in a top 200 raiding guild, I probably won't have any Outlaws on my roster lol.

I really like what they have done with Outlaw too, I feel out of my element when it comes to fine tuning a class but what are the main problems with Outlaw currently? just damage and sustain?

[Wow]

I really like what they have done with Outlaw too, I feel out of my element when it comes to fine tuning a class but what are the main problems with Outlaw currently? just damage and sustain?

Dmg st and aoe, rng, killing yourself with dread blades, even more rng lol.

[Keltas]

Dmg st and aoe, rng, killing yourself with dread blades, even more rng lol.

The recent RTB change helped the RNG a ton, it's pretty bearable now. AoE will be fixed if they just buff blade flurry a bit and/or when they buff single target.

The biggest two problems with their ST are low base damages (mostly on pistol shot/BTE) and a poor mastery.

Pistol shot isn't even worth hitting right now unless you have Quick Draw. It's half the damage of a SS without a double hit. Considering the double hit chance, and the RTB rolls now, it is really rare to find a point where it's worth hitting.
Similarly with BTE. If it crits, it does about the same as an RT crit. It doesn't proc greed either. So it isn't worth hitting at all.

Assassination gets 50% more damage on everything with agonizing poison and the same gear.
Outlaw mastery is only 18%~ of your damage in that exact same gear.
Sub is similar to assa, it gains a huge amount of damage from mastery compared to outlaw. Around 30%? of their damage is from mastery in the same gear setup.



Looking again, the other very very big difference is artifact gold traits.
Assassination gains 20-25% of their damage purely from their gold traits.
Sub gains 30%+ of their damage from gold traits.
Outlaw gets 5%~ at best from blunderbuss and greed, and while blurred is hard to tell, it isn't very much with those nerfs.

[Wow]

Assassination gets 50% more damage on everything with agonizing poison and the same gear.
Outlaw mastery is only 14%~ of your damage in that exact same gear.
Sub is similar to assa, it gains a huge amount of damage from mastery compared to outlaw. Around 30%? of their damage is from mastery in the same gear setup.


Looking again, the other very very big difference is artifact gold traits.
Assassination gains 20-25% of their damage purely from their gold traits.
Sub gains 30%+ of their damage from gold traits.
Outlaw gets 5%~ at best from blunderbuss and greed, and while blurred is hard to tell, it isn't very much with those nerfs.

Even with 90% mastery you don't get 50% with agonizing.

The outlaw artifact is pretty terrible but this could be a good thing if they balanced around it. It would mean you could play combat without massive dmg losses from low artifact power. But they probably should change them so the time you have to put into it is worth it.

The rng is better as long as they tune it's spikes right. Meaning they don't balance it's dmg around the 1.5% chance at 6 buffs etc and when it gets crazy rng it gets crazy dps for it but normal dps otherwise vs making have to get crazy rng just to get normal dmg which is what it is right now.

[Keltas]

Even with 90% mastery you don't get 50% with agonizing.

The outlaw artifact is pretty terrible but this could be a good thing if they balanced around it. It would mean you could play combat without massive dmg losses from low artifact power. But they probably should change them so the time you have to put into it is worth it.

The rng is better as long as they tune it's spikes right. Meaning they don't balance it's dmg around the 1.5% chance at 6 buffs etc and when it gets crazy rng it gets crazy dps for it but normal dps otherwise vs making have to get crazy rng just to get normal dmg which is what it is right now.

Have you tried agony on beta?

It definitely scales normally with mastery. On a premade 110 pvp character, it is at 7.1% per stack with master poisoner and 60% mastery from the template gear.

Without master poisoner it is at 6%, which would be only very slightly below what mastery % I am at. On the target dummy in only premade gear, I have 35% more damage from agonizing at 5 stacks. 44% with surge of toxins active. You can EASILY reach 50% more damage in raid gear.

I don't have 90% mastery in the gear I was using for those numbers. I had 130% mastery as assassination. Which is 8.5~% per stack before master poisoner, and before surge of toxins.
This is the wrong thread for it, but I don't understand why everyone thinks agonizing scales so badly. It's pretty good scaling.


The artifact traits just need to be buffed. A lot. Blunderbuss only adds 60% ap to every third pistol shot now, that's even worse than blast furnace was for fire mages when it got changed to a minor trait.
Similarly with greed, it only has a 33% proc chance or so, and hits like a limp noodle. The best comparison would be poison bomb for assassination. It's basically the same trait, except it procs way more and hits waaaaay harder.

[Mafic]

Yeah Outlaws golden traits are utterly gimped right now. As someone else said that can be a good thing because you can pick up all the minor traits with ease.

[Deleted]

Its not just the traits, ability damage is too low as well.

[Mafic]

Its not just the traits, ability damage is too low as well.

Yeah even with the last patch where they buffed Kspree, Saber Slash and Run Through across the board the spec is still low damage wise.

I think the problem is the spec was in the past reliant on mastery, white attacks and poisons for damage. Right now, they are still in the tuning phase so it will be interesting to see if they continue buffing active yellow damage or start tweaking white damage/MG damage.

[Wow]

Yeah even with the last patch where they buffed Kspree, Saber Slash and Run Through across the board the spec is still low damage wise.

I think the problem is the spec was in the past reliant on mastery, white attacks and poisons for damage. Right now, they are still in the tuning phase so it will be interesting to see if they continue buffing active yellow damage or start tweaking white damage/MG damage.

It seems to be the theme with the rogues specs that all of them are doing low passive dmg and mostly ability dmg now I don't think we'll see a auto dmg buff. Also even with snd when it was 100% my top dmg was still Saber Slash.

Combat needs a new mastery bad it's just so lame and now that ability dmg is actually there it feels like it does no dmg and it's only purpose is energy for more ss's.

[Tusq]

The thing is the "Pirate, Yarr" angle has already lured in a ton of nabs, most of which probably dont even run damage meters or bother to check on relative class strengths, they just want to be a pirate, who cares that outlaw is massively undertuned atm. Look, im shooting cannonballs, matey.

To be fair, this is why im considering Outlaw. But is it ok when i'm a mythic raider? :^)

Might aswell jack this post for some questions.

I was literally only focused on DH since i was allowed to reroll, so i know pretty much nothing about any of the other classes, but i dislike Momentum so much that im reconsidering my choices.

I still want/need to play a melee and it's either gonna be my enha shammy or ill try out Outlaw Rogue. So here goes:

Do i Roll the Bones until i get specific buffs or a specific amount? Like re-use it if i only get one buff for example.

What is best for level 100 talent?

Is the graphic thing that comes around your character (5 Maelstrom on enha gives some lightning graphic around your character fx.) bugged? Nothing is showing when i get a free Pistol Shot for example except on the glow on the bar.

Do you reckon a lot of WeakAuras are needed for this spec to be perfected?

What stats am i looking for?

I am in a Mythic guild but we are deffo not top of the crop, so d'ya reckon Outlaw is just any viable?

[Deleted]

I am in a Mythic guild but we are deffo not top of the crop, so d'ya reckon Outlaw is just any viable?

No, at this moment in time, if they don´t change numbers, it is NOT viable, its extremely weak.

[Keltas]

No, at this moment in time, if they don´t change numbers, it is NOT viable, its extremely weak.

technically, outlaw is kinda middle of the pack. There are quite a few specs that are way worse off right now. Most of those specs don't have other options either.

That said, it is absolutely trash when you consider you have 2 of the best specs as well.

[Mafic]

I think they have given up on the idea of niche specs, so maybe they buff single target a little more for Outlaw. But another single target buff for Outlaw may be too much and it makes it a problem for the other two specs because of Blade Flurry.