Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Gallahadd]

Probably meant Swordmaster (chance for a free Saber Slash).

Sadly, no, I mean Weaponmaster, I just didn't see it was flagged for Sub only :'(

[Hntr]

Where did you see Recuperate being a talent. In wowhead list it's under the list 'removed'.
I'd be down for it being a talent, rather than completely removed.

Sorry might have read it wrong. wowhead doesn't have the best list design :/

[Jazdren]

Guess Crimson Vial replaces recupurate.

[Redecle]

C'mon.. the last two outlaw artifact skins..
Waiting..

Almost all other specs have 5 skins in both wowhead and mmo-champ available with all the color variants.

Someone save the the day, save the Dreadblades from the horrible 1st and 2nd models.
The suspense is killing me.

[Gallahadd]

I REALLY hope the Rapier model is for a decent version of the Dreadblades... Or you can transmog older version if you choose, because there's no way my rogue is walking around with anything other than a pair of those badboys

[Skayaq]

The model isn't tied to stats, you can choose any model you want after you unlock it.

[Deleted]

Should also be ablo to transmog over them.

[Gallahadd]

The model isn't tied to stats, you can choose any model you want after you unlock it.

Awesome. In that case I hope the rapier model isn't connected to PvP

[Xeh.-]

Is outlaw a spec with 10000 abilities?

We have like 4 finishing moves including SnD.

Is there any regular combat ability removed?

[raivyne]

WTB Baseline Anticipation... or NOT having it in the same tier as Vigor. Awful.

[Redecle]

Is outlaw a spec with 10000 abilities?

We have like 4 finishing moves including SnD.

Is there any regular combat ability removed?

As i see it, the baseline is pretty basic.
Saber Slash to build CB (replaces combat Sinister Strike), SnD up (same as combat), big finisher with Run Through (replaces Eviscerate from combat), and use free Pistol Shots as they appear or build cb with PS from range (essentially probably as much used as Revealing Strike was for combat).
Between the Eyes is your Kidney Shot, so stun finisher, it's just ranged.

Same amount of abilities as combat now has, plus the rest which are cooldowns or utility, but they are extra, not normal combat rotation.

If you want to keep it as simple as that, the rest are all in talents.
Which most have a passive option in the same row if you don't want anymore bindbloat.
If you can handle more active abilities and binds, there's Ghostly Strike to build CB and act nearly as same as Revealing did to increase dmg.
Next throughput talent is Cannonball Barrage or Killing Spree in the same row, CbB is an aoe cd 60 sec and KS 2 min cd either single target or aoe.

If you go all other talents passive only difference to combat will tbe the level 100 talents which are rotation based, adding one more bind to finishers.
Roll the Bones is single target damage boost finisher, much like SnD, just need to keep both up. Madked for Death is 60 sec CD single target boost.
Death from Above your AOE finisher replace Run Through with DfA in AOE situations. It one more bind, but in rotation the number stays the same since DfA is used instead of RT.

So overall in the minimum you have to bind one more ability than you had to with combat, with all the passive choices.
For more active playstyle, you can choose more and mix and match depending on situation.

In raid environment it's as it is now, boss and situation dependant. If you want to well in raids now, you choose the talent that suits the boss. Like you don't need Death from Above in single target nuke fights, if you need to stay away from boss a long time you choose Shuriken Toss over Anticipation etc.

There's bound to be cookie cutter spec, but how Blizzard has done boss fights in WoD for example the cookie cutter isn't allmighty, you adapt to each situation. But that's mostly in the high end competitive situation. For an average joe raiding, it's probably perfectly fine with go all passive talents and keep to button bloat as minimal as possible.

Roll the Bones is probably a very risky finisher since the stat it gives is random. Assuming crit and versatility still suck for combat, and you're unlucky and get those procs a lot. On the opposite a haste proc is gonna probably rock your world. We don't know stats yet or how much RtB actually boosts them. But the choices there are single target 60 sec cd or aoe finisher, so.. For me that actually looks pretty lackluster talent row to be level 100. But it's not final.

Same thing for the 90 there's people who hate KS cause of loose of character control, well Cannonball Barrage isn't any better since it's channeled spell, you can't do anything while doing that, guessing Alacrity as passive is a very likely choice here.

And since they removed few baseline skills that we have now like Shiv, i'm guessing there should be some free space in the keybinds now to match WoD level for players to choose even 1-2 active abilites.
Doesn't seem that bad, even like before MoP when the bloat was at it's worst, i personally never had any trouble with binds as rogue.
Always had everything key or mouse bound, that's what the modifiers shift and alt are for, use normal and aoe finisher, why not same key with modifier.. If we look classes like enha shamans back then, that's when you seriously had some troubles to fit everything even on the keyboard

[Brytallica]

I really hate the daggers they have been making since MoP. Less is more for me. These swords are a little tacky but a couple of skins are usable. I really hope there is 50+ variants of all the artifact weapons if not more. Otherwise, I hope we can transmog them to our individual tastes.

[Deleted]

Otherwise, I hope we can transmog them to our individual tastes.

You can. They've said it multiple times. You can transmog artifacts to look like other weapons, but other weaponst can't be transmogged into looking like an artifact.

[Pikapika]

Did some digging and found some effects for Roll the bones. Some are stat procs like haste and crit, others much more interesting!

http://legion.wowhead.com/spells?fil...16;crs=7;crv=0 (ignore the Pieces of Eight PvP talent)

Buried Treasure - Your combo-generating abilities generate 1 additional combo point for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Grand Melee - Increases all damage done by 35% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Jolly Roger - Roll the Bones dice explode and instantly deal (1000% of Attack power) Physical damage to all targets within 8 yards of the Rogue. Also increases attack speed by 30% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Shark Infested Waters - Increases Critical Strike chance by 40% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
True Bearing - Increases chance to trigger Main Gauche by {40*220/100}% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Weigh Anchor - Increases Haste by 40% for the duration of Roll the Bones.

Looking at how CP generation will work going forward, Anticipation is looking to be a lot more of a requirement than an option. With Buried Treasure up and the Quick Draw talent selected, Pistol shot will be generating 3 combo points all on its own. Without Anticipation, or at the least Deeper Strategem, we're either going to be wasting a lot of points or using finishers early a lot.

[Wow]

Did some digging and found some effects for Roll the bones. Some are stat procs like haste and crit, others much more interesting!

http://legion.wowhead.com/spells?fil...16;crs=7;crv=0 (ignore the Pieces of Eight PvP talent)

Buried Treasure - Your combo-generating abilities generate 1 additional combo point for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Grand Melee - Increases all damage done by 35% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Jolly Roger - Roll the Bones dice explode and instantly deal (1000% of Attack power) Physical damage to all targets within 8 yards of the Rogue. Also increases attack speed by 30% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Shark Infested Waters - Increases Critical Strike chance by 40% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
True Bearing - Increases chance to trigger Main Gauche by {40*220/100}% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Weigh Anchor - Increases Haste by 40% for the duration of Roll the Bones.

That talent could be interesting I figured it was just going to be haste/mastery/crit maybe agi.

[Pikapika]

That talent could be interesting I figured it was just going to be haste/mastery/crit maybe agi.

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing how the theorycrafting for it works out. Worth it to refresh earlier for the worse buffs in hope of a better one? Or maybe can you have more than one up at once?

[lolpve]

All the artifacts look terrible but who cares we have transmog.

[P0kerZ]

Regarding Recuperate there was a mention under passive talent Iron Stomach which increases health stones and potions effectiveness by 30% or something called Crimson Vial. Wonder if that's a self heal or something else since there's nothing mentioning it anywhere else in the notes.

Crimson Vial (30 energy, 30 sec cd): Instantly heals 30% max health.

Outlaw spec:
So, it looks like Bandit's Guile is gone. This makes me extremely disappointed. This added a level of complexity to the rotation which I enjoy.
No more reduced cd from Ruthlessness. /cry
I'm not that impressed with the level 90 and 100 talent choices. The ramp up with Alacrity is lame and wish they would come up with different talents for Marked for Death and Death from Above. And, the level 45 choices are annoying to choose from. It also seems with no more major glyphs, we won't get the extra 20 energy. Swordmaster seems weaker than Quick Draw at the moment.

[Pikapika]

Crimson Vial (30 energy, 30 sec cd): Instantly heals 30% max health.

Outlaw spec:
So, it looks like Bandit's Guile is gone. This makes me extremely disappointed. This added a level of complexity to the rotation which I enjoy.
No more reduced cd from Ruthlessness. /cry
I'm not that impressed with the level 90 and 100 talent choices. The ramp up with Alacrity is lame and wish they would come up with different talents for Marked for Death and Death from Above. And, the level 45 choices are annoying to choose from. It also seems with no more major glyphs, we won't get the extra 20 energy. Swordmaster seems weaker than Quick Draw at the moment.

Yeah pretty bummed about losing BG here as well. Wish it could've at least stayed as a talent or something. Would be more interesting than some of the other options we've gotten.

[Redecle]

Did some digging and found some effects for Roll the bones. Some are stat procs like haste and crit, others much more interesting!

http://legion.wowhead.com/spells?fil...16;crs=7;crv=0 (ignore the Pieces of Eight PvP talent)

Buried Treasure - Your combo-generating abilities generate 1 additional combo point for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Grand Melee - Increases all damage done by 35% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Jolly Roger - Roll the Bones dice explode and instantly deal (1000% of Attack power) Physical damage to all targets within 8 yards of the Rogue. Also increases attack speed by 30% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Shark Infested Waters - Increases Critical Strike chance by 40% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
True Bearing - Increases chance to trigger Main Gauche by {40*220/100}% for the duration of Roll the Bones.
Weigh Anchor - Increases Haste by 40% for the duration of Roll the Bones.

Looking at how CP generation will work going forward, Anticipation is looking to be a lot more of a requirement than an option. With Buried Treasure up and the Quick Draw talent selected, Pistol shot will be generating 3 combo points all on its own. Without Anticipation, or at the least Deeper Strategem, we're either going to be wasting a lot of points or using finishers early a lot.

Okay that makes Roll the Bones look more interesting choice.
I was also thinking in the lines that it grants haste, mastery, crit and hrrr versatility.. And it's just tough luck, better try next time if you get a crit or vers proc.

It's still sounds an awful lot of RNG now cause of even more choices, like if you're on single target fight and Jolly Roger keeps constantly proccing, you do get attack speed, but the ap aoe seems wasted.
Other than that the procs seem to be quite beneficial, basic but beneficial. Why I mentioned Jolly Roger precisely is cause it's probably the most interesting one. The rest are pretty much a flatout %-based buff, well Buried Treasure is also something else, it's not direct damage cause it's cb you can spend in other ways. Those choices are more interesting than flat out % damage. JR also does the % damage but it chances the ability dramatically to be an aoe. If the RtB is somewhat controllable, those sort of mechanics are way more interesting to play with, it's just the rng that worries me cause it's out of the players control and purely luck based. It has nothing to do with skill, if you happen to get an aoe proc when aoeing.

I don't know about Anticipation, it's been fine so far. Although it's going trough changes for Legion.
Now every now and then you go over with one cb, cause of procs from Sinister Strike.
But in Legion that imo just means more damage finishers fit in to one SnD. Or as said PikaPika more cbs to but to Roll the Bones to possibly change the effect to something suitable to the current situation. The level 45 still has 2 options to increase the cbs and Vigor basically means you're just going all out with Run Through, finishers after all are more interesting to play with than cb builders.

As for Ruthlessness with the clearly increased amount of combo points being generated, it makes sense it doesn't lower the cd. That actually was nice little thing, but if we basically are going to be drowning in cb, it would mean Adrenaline Rush is nearly always up and that would mean even more cbs. It just makes sense that they remove it.

Personally not too fussed about Bandit's Guile, it's too uncontrollable, in the sense of having the burst when you need it.
In raid environment when an important add comes and and you're still ramping up BG, frustrating.
In a nuke fight it's just lining your cooldowns with BG, that's a micromanagement in the sense of things to follow, but often also means not using cds on cd but waiting around for the ramp up. It's up when it's up which is in a way rng and you adapt to it even if fight mechanics require something else. Even when delaying it with RS, it's a thing, but it's also lost damage just to line up the perfect KS.
It's playing the mechanic, but in the same time you're just loosing pure SS damage.