Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Deleted]

Personally not too fussed about Bandit's Guile, it's too uncontrollable, in the sense of having the burst when you need it.
In raid environment when an important add comes and and you're still ramping up BG, frustrating.
In a nuke fight it's just lining your cooldowns with BG, that's a micromanagement in the sense of things to follow, but often also means not using cds on cd but waiting around for the ramp up. It's up when it's up which is in a way rng and you adapt to it even if fight mechanics require something else. Even when delaying it with RS, it's a thing, but it's also lost damage just to line up the perfect KS.
It's playing the mechanic, but in the same time you're just loosing pure SS damage.

This sounds like BG controlling you rather than the other way around. The way is to have red line up with your cds right as they come off or for big AoE, and not let BG move on its own and just wait for red to pop cds.
So for example on Iskar when you don't have red line up with adds it's because you didn't manage it properly.

With the removal of CDR from offensive finishers it would have been fine to hold on to BG and vice versa, removing both at once creates a void yet to be filled.

[Mafic]

This sounds like BG controlling you rather than the other way around. The way is to have red line up with your cds right as they come off or for big AoE, and not let BG move on its own and just wait for red to pop cds.
So for example on Iskar when you don't have red line up with adds it's because you didn't manage it properly.

With the removal of CDR from offensive finishers it would have been fine to hold on to BG and vice versa, removing both at once creates a void yet to be filled.

Agreed.

BG never really added interesting game play because you ignored it most of the time due to how Restless Blades worked. Without Restless Blades, Bandit Guile stacks would actually have more meaningful play, especially delaying insight.

Still, I am glad that both are gone so Outlaw can go in a new direction. But Roll the Bones is way too much RNG to even consider. This is why Marked for Death looks a lot more attractive than Roll the Bones.

[Deleted]

I can imagine Roll the Bones working fine on single target, as it could beat the other 2 options. Will it be fun to use though? That has yet to be seen.

Maybe they could add a cheat to it so that if you press it quickly again you push the die a little further and reroll in case of unhappyness with the result. Would not work though with the exploding one.

Edit: I also think the CDR was fun, so RIP Restless Blades

[Redecle]

This sounds like BG controlling you rather than the other way around. The way is to have red line up with your cds right as they come off or for big AoE, and not let BG move on its own and just wait for red to pop cds.
So for example on Iskar when you don't have red line up with adds it's because you didn't manage it properly.

With the removal of CDR from offensive finishers it would have been fine to hold on to BG and vice versa, removing both at once creates a void yet to be filled.

That's sort of what I meant, you can control Bandit's Guile, but with a price. To keep it in control you use RS instead of SS.
The price is you're doing less damage outside the burst phase by having to relay on RS, the burst phase can compensate it in an way and in a way not.
It's two sided, that way you get the burst when you absolutely need it, in fights where mechanics like dangerous adds are key that's important.
But it still takes away from the encounter performance outside that particular example add phase.

BG has that room to play with or as some rogues call it abuse the mechanic, but i see it more as hinderance overall.
when other systems in it's place could work better.


It's sort of high risk high reward mechanic, i can see how that makes a difference in like mythic environment where every 0.01 dps matters.
But outside of that I don't really bother with it. Seems flunky. Just another bar to keep track of and as that it's not just fun.
At least to me, simply looking at bars is never fun.

For CDR I think Roll the Bones is meant to fill that void coming with the other passives causing CB bloat.
But right now it just doesn't feel a very good solution in it's current format.
If you consider the spec slow, i think the combo point generation will take care of that on it's own, that's still speculation, but doing some math with it, it looks like it's going to be high. Is that fun? That depends, for button smashing yes, for complexity no.

[BaneDraegonfire]

I'm honestly glad Bandit's Guile is gone. It felt like to fully optimize and be efficient you HAD to have WeakAuras to make the most of it. From what I took from the Devs they want to work away from players being so dependent on WeakAuras (personally I find the addon to be a unneeded crutch so never used it). So we are able to find a better "complexity" that the player can control at their own skill level then maybe we move away from addons that basically tell you what you NEED to do and do it on your own. Just sayin' could help promote less toxicity and get players back into playing the game rather than just being lazy and complaining a lot.

I'm a lil miffed Killing Spree is going head to head with Cannonball Barrage tho. I mean I'll be honest I wish they would drop the 3 choice per row style and open up talents like they used to back in Vanilla/BC/Wrath, well I'd like to be able say get 2 lvl 90 talents and no lvl 100 talents or something like that but maybe that is asking too much. Personally I always loved Killing Spree so I feel like I'm going to have to choose it even tho Cannonball Barrage seems like a good move to have, I still want to be able to play my Rogue like I have since the beginning tho.

I'm really excited to see what we will be able to do with the artifact "talents" and that may change a lot of how we look at our regular talents as well. And pretty stoked that a lot of our CCs got removed from stealth, no more trying to SAP NPCs and getting caught cause my battery died on my mouse and going into auto run lol.

[Deleted]

Well at least we'll get included in patch notes this time round, so use to not ever reading changes to the rogue class, sigh ... bring me some loving blizz

[fierydemise]

Roll the Bones is BG version two. You maintain it because those buffs are really good (seriously they will all get nerfed because in their current state they destroy everything else on the tier) and the buff does something. Hopefully something that matches what you are doing currently. If it does match, you do more damage, if it doesn't match you do less damage. Unless there is some complex method of gaming RtB to get a buff of your choice it has all the same issues at BG had historically.

[Feali]

Isn't RtB just T12 4pc relodead?

[Artorius]

Isn't RtB just T12 4pc relodead?

Yeah but with more options

[fierydemise]

Isn't RtB just T12 4pc relodead?

Yup and note how much rotational attention we paid to what buff we got there.

[P0kerZ]

Legendaries datamined:

The King's Hands: Grants you the Anticipation talent. If you select Anticipation, you may have up to 5 charges.
Nochtadh, Footpads of the Deft Assassin: Your attacks have a chance to reveal a weakness in your opponent's defenses. While attacking from the weak side, you deal X% increased damage to the target.
Boots of Wondrous Rapidity: Your Speed is increased by a portion of your Haste.

All I gotta say is WTF???!!! (especially the first one)

[Redecle]

Legendaries datamined:

The King's Hands: Grants you the Anticipation talent. If you select Anticipation, you may have up to 5 charges.
Nochtadh, Footpads of the Deft Assassin: Your attacks have a chance to reveal a weakness in your opponent's defenses. While attacking from the weak side, you deal X% increased damage to the target.
Boots of Wondrous Rapidity: Your Speed is increased by a portion of your Haste.

All I gotta say is WTF???!!! (especially the first one)

I'm actually really excited what they are doing with the legendaries.
It all depends of course how rare those are to get and how grindy..
But the effects at least for now, specially the boots.

Nochtadh is taking advantage on the new positioning notifier in the game, there's supposedly some UI element that let's you know which angle you're attacking a mob.
And what Nochtadh does is really a rogue-like thing. That should seriously been baked in to the class since vanilla. It's sort of the heritage of armor penetration, older sub and well backstab with position requirement, at least in the class fantasy level. The direction requirement is a WoW spin, but essentially you aim to strike in places that are vulnerable and not just call it a spell and hit it to full on armor with target locking. That sounds really cool. Of course thing like that doesn't work on bosses like Sinestra, Kromog, Ultraxion etc, but those are marginal bosses.

The other boots sound really interesting too, sort of old tabletop rpg rogue element there, where you have items such as Boots of haste that are "on use" and double your movement speed and attack speed. It's a really cool nod to that direction of rp games.

Kings hands just seems to be on the point what i said in one of my earlier posts that Outlaw will be drowning in combo points, essentially free talent.
But the other class legendaries at least some of them are currently really really powerful, not all, but some are insanely.
Probably not how we'll end up seeing them all, but I really like the ideas they are going there.

The item acquiring method is still i'd call up to debate. If it's just forcing high end raiders to essentially grind random mobs for the items..
That sounds exactly as any other grind in the game has been in the past, a thing that not many people will enjoy doing specially for the high end since it's sort of mandatory to be competitive. For the average player base it's just a lucky drop, if you happen to come by one.

[fierydemise]

Legendaries datamined:

The King's Hands: Grants you the Anticipation talent. If you select Anticipation, you may have up to 5 charges.
Nochtadh, Footpads of the Deft Assassin: Your attacks have a chance to reveal a weakness in your opponent's defenses. While attacking from the weak side, you deal X% increased damage to the target.
Boots of Wondrous Rapidity: Your Speed is increased by a portion of your Haste.

All I gotta say is WTF???!!! (especially the first one)

Its worth noting that The King's Hands is a plate item and the other passive on it refers to a prot warrior talent. It seems quite likely this is not a rogue item.

Also going from 3 to 5 charges on anticipation is relatively minor. The primary value of anticipation comes from avoiding loss from CP overflow which will happen at 3 cps under every mechanic we have seen so far. Yes 5 cps technically allows you to pool a bit higher but few players, as far as I can tell, regularly used anticipation for heavy cp pooling. The drop from 5 charges to 3 seems incredibly marginal.

[sayewonn]

I wouldn't mind one or two more active talents that add to the rotation in the tree. The level 75 row is just as uninteresting as it is now for example. And a redesign of blade flurry.

[Hindsgaul]

Its worth noting that The King's Hands is a plate item and the other passive on it refers to a prot warrior talent. It seems quite likely this is not a rogue item.

Also going from 3 to 5 charges on anticipation is relatively minor. The primary value of anticipation comes from avoiding loss from CP overflow which will happen at 3 cps under every mechanic we have seen so far. Yes 5 cps technically allows you to pool a bit higher but few players, as far as I can tell, regularly used anticipation for heavy cp pooling. The drop from 5 charges to 3 seems incredibly marginal.

Seeing as Blizzard have promised they had a system in place so you can be 17 leather uses in a raid - I expect this this to be it! Multiple new legendaries are now classed as consumeables/other and are clearly cross armortype with war/rogue or similar. So I do think it will be a warrior and rogue legendary that both classes can use.

But hey - getting both anticipation and Vigor from that talent row seems super cool

[overdose]

Seeing as Blizzard have promised they had a system in place so you can be 17 leather uses in a raid - I expect this this to be it! Multiple new legendaries are now classed as consumeables/other and are clearly cross armortype with war/rogue or similar. So I do think it will be a warrior and rogue legendary that both classes can use.

But hey - getting both anticipation and Vigor from that talent row seems super cool

The King's Hands: Grants you the Anticipation talent. If you select Anticipation, you may have up to 5 charges.

Edit: I just re-read it. Does "Grants you the Anticipation talent" mean you'll get it if you dont have it, and if you select it you get an additional two charges?

[jerbin]

The King's Hands: Grants you the Anticipation talent. If you select Anticipation, you may have up to 5 charges.

Edit: I just re-read it. Does "Grants you the Anticipation talent" mean you'll get it if you dont have it, and if you select it you get an additional two charges?

That's the way I'm reading it. Seems like a neat way to do it.

[huth]

I wouldn't mind one or two more active talents that add to the rotation in the tree. The level 75 row is just as uninteresting as it is now for example. And a redesign of blade flurry.

Do keep Artifact traits in mind. Seems like you get an active from that as well.

[Mafic]

Do keep Artifact traits in mind. Seems like you get an active from that as well.

You mean at level 110?

The alpha artifact trees are out and mostly are passives.

[Gallahadd]

Well... The Outlaw artifact is pretty badass . My favourite traits:

Initial trait seems strong, depending on how much health is drained.

Pretty much all three Major traits are awesome.

Hidden Blade sounds good.

Blademaster sounds fun. Seems like with Riposte Active we'll turn into quite the immovable object.