Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Naiattavain]

I'm sorry guy because you were better off with me as a customer.

[elfporn]

I'm sorry guy because you were better off with me as a customer.

I'm just glad to see you go! hopefully you'll get banned for your crappy attitude again.

[pies1]

I was dicking around with sub on a dummy earlier. I found it impossible to fit 4 shadowstrikes plus symbol of death into a single shadow dance as advised on the icyveins guide. Obviously I was pooling to 100 before ShD. I think I once managed 3 SS + SD but usually 2 SS + SD. Is there a trait which reduces the cost of shadow strike in the artifact? Is the IV guide misleading? Am I just a shitter (probably the most likely)?

[Celfydd]

I was dicking around with sub on a dummy earlier. I found it impossible to fit 4 shadowstrikes plus symbol of death into a single shadow dance as advised on the icyveins guide. Obviously I was pooling to 100 before ShD. I think I once managed 3 SS + SD but usually 2 SS + SD. Is there a trait which reduces the cost of shadow strike in the artifact? Is the IV guide misleading? Am I just a shitter (probably the most likely)?

The guide assumes you have 3/3 Energetic Stabbing (or ideally more) and that it procs, otherwise you won't have enough energy to do all of them. However the guide is also wrong since you should always spend finishers as soon as you hit 5/6 CP in order to reduce your dance CD and refund energy. Thus the maximum number of Shadowstrikes you will ever do back to back is 3.

[Minka]

Should I go straight to Akaaris soul now or take second shuriken before?

[scrangos]

The guide assumes you have 3/3 Energetic Stabbing (or ideally more) and that it procs, otherwise you won't have enough energy to do all of them. However the guide is also wrong since you should always spend finishers as soon as you hit 5/6 CP in order to reduce your dance CD and refund energy. Thus the maximum number of Shadowstrikes you will ever do back to back is 3.

Shadow dance is long enough to fit 2 SS evis 2 ss for 5 gcds. with about half a second to spare on 150ms lag. Symbol is off the gcd so that shouldnt matter.

I do run vigor since the energetic stabbing rng was annoying me. Thistle tea works though for those unlucky streaks.

[Minka]

Should I go straight to Akaaris soul now or take second shuriken before?

could someone say what he did or answer my question

[Naiattavain]

i got this rogue figured out;

in the rotation use shadow strike the most for mobility and selecting different targets and using shuriken toss on other targets. triggering rappid target lets say three targets shadow strike all three one after another using fan of knives eviscerate with dodge up. very same to scorpion on mortal kombat X. always eviscerate from stealth for the damage bonus but select these talents.

<weapon master<nightstalker<vigor for accumulating more than 3 shadow strikes in the rotation<elusiveness or cheat death for survival<strike from the shadows to embower shadow strike and eviscerate from stealth<enveloping shadows for replacement of slice and dice buff this balances out resource distribution in the rotation. energy and combo point generating. ideally best to use 5-6 eviscerates back to back or kidney shot then eviscerate soon as possible. if there is a way to get that working since warlords. no ambush debuff for damage past armor or shadow reflection to duplicate the rotation.<selecting master of shadows to give some extra shadow strikes; shadow strike has a mobility tied to it to make melee engagement harder. plays same as scorpion in mortal kombat X with teleportation attack with sprint activated. evasion and fan of knives to get extra combo points. eviscerate always over shadow strike, shadow strike to move instead of shadow step shadow step to eviscerate and kidney shot; from stealth use eviscerate hits harder. 6 shadow strikes; moving from different target cycling or single target with master of shadows. use shadow strike to move out of melee combat and save shadow step for when you need it.

hope this all makes sense because legion subtlety is the hardest I've seen rogue. with the changes its all the same which means that all of us will have to play rotation this same way really helping you guys figure this out and i get an infraction because of this. but if you find that none of this works for you you could always play another class.

im practically a beta tester part time. enjoy

[Minka]

i got this rogue figured out;

in the rotation use shadowstrike the most for mobility and selecting diffrent targets and using shuriken toss on other targets. triggering rappid target lets say three targets shadow strike all three one after another using fan of knives eviscerate with dogge up. very similuer to scorpion on mortal kombat X. always evicerate from stealth for the damage bonus but select these tallents.

<weapon master<nightstalker<vigor for accumulating more than 3 shadow strikes in the rotation<elusiveness or cheat death for survival<strike from the shadows to embower shadow strike and eviscerate from stealth<enveloping shadows for replacement of slice and dice buff this balances out resource distribution in the rotation. energy and combo point generating. idealaly best to use 5-6 eviscerates back to back or kydney shot then eviscerate soon ass possible. if there is a way to get that working since warlords. no ambush debuff for damage past armor or shadow reflection to duplicate the rotation.<selecting master of shadows to give some extra shadowstrikes; shadow strike has a mobility tied to it to make melee engagement harder. plays same as scorpion in mortal kombat X with teleporting attack with sprint activated. evasion and fan of knives to get extra combo points. eviscerate always over shadow strike, shadow strike to move instead of shadow step shadow step to eviscerate and kydney shot; from stealth use eviscerate hits harder. 6 shadow strike moving from different target cycling or single target with master of shadows.

im practically a beta tester part time. enjoy

this all makes no fucking sense but ok

[RobertoCarlos]

Obviously trolling. And doing it poorly. "Idealaly" gives you away among others

[pies1]

The guide assumes you have 3/3 Energetic Stabbing (or ideally more) and that it procs, otherwise you won't have enough energy to do all of them. However the guide is also wrong since you should always spend finishers as soon as you hit 5/6 CP in order to reduce your dance CD and refund energy. Thus the maximum number of Shadowstrikes you will ever do back to back is 3.

Makes sense. Thanks man.

[Xvolte]

Quick question before I raid tonight, what's the consensus on Subtlety PvE as far as Marked for Death vs Master of Shadows? Master of Shadows is what I have been using, but icy veins says to use marked for death. I just dont see how MFD would be a DPS increase over master of shadows.

Also, deeper stratagem vs vigor? I've read different opinions on each one.

[scrangos]

Quick question before I raid tonight, what's the consensus on Subtlety PvE as far as Marked for Death vs Master of Shadows? Master of Shadows is what I have been using, but icy veins says to use marked for death. I just dont see how MFD would be a DPS increase over master of shadows.

Also, deeper stratagem vs vigor? I've read different opinions on each one.

I think in the comments the guys at icy said they gave out an easier to use build rather than the most optimal one.

[Jaronicity]

Also, deeper stratagem vs vigor? I've read different opinions on each one.

I've only seen DS advocated as the best talent (but Vigor gives a bit more leeway in capping energy) but as per IV: "Deeper Stratagem is currently the best choice. Vigor is not far behind, and can be useful for situations where AoE is a factor (where finishers are less important)." This could also be coupled with DfA (should the aoe stay buffed from most recent hotfixes) for some not-spectacular-but-better-than-nothing AoE.

[secondratetech]

Although considered the lowest priority stat: are there any break points on haste, where the extra energy regen can help smooth out your rotation?

[Hobbes0773]

shadow dance doesn't really last very long and the energy costs are too high; warlords rogue was better off because of the magic the class could channel was there. this time in legion its just shadow that rogue has no cross school using. i unsubbed and stopped playing warcraft because of this.

It is pretty clear you haven't played recently. Dance is up well over 50% of the time, which is quite a bit more than it was in WoD.

I will also never understand why people unsub then come to a wow forum to complain about something they aren't up to date with.

This is tantamount to a feral posting and bitching because every time they shift out of cat form they lose all of their energy.

[Holydush]

Newbie rogue here, how much of a difference is there between going for Finality/Shadow Nova first instead of Akaari's Soul in the artifact tree? I like the playstyle of Sub and Akaari's Soul seems like the best talent but not having a golden talent until Artifact level 15 seems lame consdering almost every other spec in the game gets one before the costs go up like crazy.

[secondratetech]

Newbie rogue here, how much of a difference is there between going for Finality/Shadow Nova first instead of Akaari's Soul in the artifact tree? I like the playstyle of Sub and Akaari's Soul seems like the best talent but not having a golden talent until Artifact level 15 seems lame consdering almost every other spec in the game gets one before the costs go up like crazy.

It will only matter on mythic raids and mythic+ organized groups (sprint/vanish is probably more useful on mythic+ than any of the damage traits), by then you'll at least have your first golden trait.
Ultimately you'll have them all if you want to compete.

For solo leveling, world quests, suramar, etc. Go the route that give you the most fun. Personally, I went for the safe fall trait first. I'm not sure If I'll level another character until flying because how good it is (maybe demon hunter). Sub. crushes open world mobs, you'll be 2-3 shotting mobs once you get Shaw, regardless of your traits.

[Spiritvs]

Hello!
Are icy veins stat weight correct?

Agility: 1.00
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.65
Critical Strike: 0.61
Haste: 0.38

Or should I aim for a stat balance?

Also how do you deal with mythic+ trash packs? Shall I shuriken and dot them all with night blades? Or just eviscerate main target? Or none of those?

[neozz1]

Hello!
Are icy veins stat weight correct?

Agility: 1.00
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.65
Critical Strike: 0.61
Haste: 0.38

Or should I aim for a stat balance?

Also how do you deal with mythic+ trash packs? Shall I shuriken and dot them all with night blades? Or just eviscerate main target? Or none of those?

Generally this is the most up to date information: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.ta7x4ri069in

You will need to Sim your character with your gear to get YOUR exact stat weights.