Poll: Do you want Shadowstep back?

  1. #6141
    Greetings guys!
    Checking rogues from Method first kill KJ (gratz to them) i see all sub rogues playing 4 pcs Tier 20 set + shoulders + vigor ring. They're trolling us (saving this setup in armory) or vigor ring is really better than bracers?
    I've tried it on doomy and OW bosses and this compilation is quite nice one...Will try this setup today in my raid.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #6142
    Deleted
    Thoughts: in progress kills Its often not min/Max dps WHO is main focus but survival and raid mecanics. Vigour ring is not a huge dps loss over bracers but same time let you use more energy, if feint is frequently used energystarvation is less with vigour ring.

  3. #6143
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by LowPingMD View Post
    Greetings guys!
    Checking rogues from Method first kill KJ (gratz to them) i see all sub rogues playing 4 pcs Tier 20 set + shoulders + vigor ring. They're trolling us (saving this setup in armory) or vigor ring is really better than bracers?
    I've tried it on doomy and OW bosses and this compilation is quite nice one...Will try this setup today in my raid.

    Any thoughts?
    Only two of them actually had bracers. That is the reason.

    Everyone was Assa in NH, Yliajo took long to actually to get all the Assa dps legendaries so he did not switch to sub lootspec until ToS. "worstplayer" I believe was the other with sub bracers. Others most likely were not played as much during NH, so no bracers.

    There is no hidden tactics, just trolling wowprogress and things not dropping.

  4. #6144
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by satori sartori View Post
    Can I get some tips on how to use warcraft logs to check dance usage, wasted cp and energy?
    Open up your log. Click on your name, tab from "Damage Done" to "Ressources", then click on "Hit Points" below in the left corner and there you will find energy and combopoints.

    Best way to track the usage of ShD is to tab to "Casts" then change from "Tables" to "Timelines" and there you can track your whole fight with everything you did included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    I have been browsing this guide for a bit, was sin, seems like switching to sub will net me more dps. Is there like a TLDR version that kinds of sums up what is going on lately. Also is there a opener that people have decided on?

    Riff pretty much sums it up -> riff.tf

  5. #6145
    hey there,

    I checked Riff's guide about relics and kinda apply that to my character. The thing is when i'm watching log & KJ down from method, sub rogues are playing differently so I'm kinda lost.

    What is the best relic combo to apply considering I've all sub leggos

  6. #6146
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by upliftin View Post
    hey there,

    I checked Riff's guide about relics and kinda apply that to my character. The thing is when i'm watching log & KJ down from method, sub rogues are playing differently so I'm kinda lost.

    What is the best relic combo to apply considering I've all sub leggos
    As long as you dont have a log, you dont know what set-up they actually played. Perfecto for sure didnt play Outlaw on KJ, he logged out as Outlaw to troll. Spookie is an alt of his main dk, so he doesnt even have all Sub legendaries i guess. The other 3 rogues played Sub i thinkg, apprently two of them used the ring instead of the bracers. I dont know the whole fight but it might be cause ring is more effective since you have a couples of intermissions and cant get the maximum benefit of Shadowblades, but it is just a guess, i have no clue. Maybe they dont even have bracers and thus pick the ring.

    For relics, you just want to use SimC. Noone can tell you, so just sim it. Soul Shadows is preferable with CoF and Bracers, but it is also very dependent on the relic's lvl. So Gutripper, Energetic Stabbing or Weak Point are all viable as long as they are higher than your other relic but again, just sim it.

  7. #6147
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurellio View Post
    As long as you dont have a log, you dont know what set-up they actually played. Perfecto for sure didnt play Outlaw on KJ, he logged out as Outlaw to troll. Spookie is an alt of his main dk, so he doesnt even have all Sub legendaries i guess. The other 3 rogues played Sub i thinkg, apprently two of them used the ring instead of the bracers. I dont know the whole fight but it might be cause ring is more effective since you have a couples of intermissions and cant get the maximum benefit of Shadowblades, but it is just a guess, i have no clue. Maybe they dont even have bracers and thus pick the ring.

    For relics, you just want to use SimC. Noone can tell you, so just sim it. Soul Shadows is preferable with CoF and Bracers, but it is also very dependent on the relic's lvl. So Gutripper, Energetic Stabbing or Weak Point are all viable as long as they are higher than your other relic but again, just sim it.
    Yep I know that (about that outlaw part) just checked on wowprogress when they logged out on sub spec.

    Thanks for your answer on relics, I'll figure it out by simming

  8. #6148
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurellio View Post
    Open up your log. Click on your name, tab from "Damage Done" to "Ressources", then click on "Hit Points" below in the left corner and there you will find energy and combopoints.

    Best way to track the usage of ShD is to tab to "Casts" then change from "Tables" to "Timelines" and there you can track your whole fight with everything you did included.




    Riff pretty much sums it up -> riff.tf
    Thanks fghcfghcgfh
    Last edited by satori sartori; 2017-07-20 at 06:37 PM.

  9. #6149
    Got the Vigor ring today.

    Even a really mediocre 2p+4p+Bracers+Ring setup (using the garbage Haste-heavy ToS helm and 890 shoulders from NH cause that's all I got) simmed within 8k of my regular setup. That's despite losing almost 3 full item levels. And I have nothing special in relics, 1 Gutripper and only 48% Evisc crit chance.

    So, yeah. The ring is a really viable alternative, at least on paper.

    In practice, I think doing 1.2M with periods of burst-wait-burst-wait is stronger than doing a sustained 1.2M because the former is better when you have boss downtime, or mechanics that temporarily buff your DPS (Mistress, Maiden).
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  10. #6150
    Can't find it but can anyone basically explain me how the vanish cancel AA works? And what I've to save in the macro to make it work?

    I saw different version on this: some will tell it works, some will tell it's not working so I'm confused..

  11. #6151
    Guys, I dropped wrist finally, (already have shoulders), now I'm checking talents for it. Almost everybody who is ranked on warcraftlogs is using 1110013, but according simcraft (tc.ravenholdt.net/combinations/rogue_subtlety_t20m.html) 2310012 is significantly better. Even when I sim my char, it is +20k boost. Why? Is it worth to try it? No guide mention this setup.

    Another question regarding legendaries - single target => wrists + mantle. But for AOE heavy fights there is a lot of ppl who use back. Can you recommend for which ToS bosses use back? I guess that Hartajan, Mistress, Desolate host? Some even use it on KJ HC. Wonder if there is any ToS specific sub guide?

  12. #6152
    Rogue
    All Specs

    Mantle of the Master Assassin duration reduced to 5 seconds (was 6 seconds).

    Subtlety

    Denial of the Half-Giants cooldown reduction reduced to 0.2 seconds per combo point spent (was 0.3 seconds).
    RIP boys, it was fun while it lasted.

    Actually, probably very good reason to swap to Vigor ring + T19 2p + T20 4p now.

    Dunno if the nerf will be enough to ditch the Bracers or not. Not really any other option for non-shoulder non-bracer setups, unless you want to run double rings lol.
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  13. #6153
    Quote Originally Posted by Won7on View Post
    RIP boys, it was fun while it lasted.

    Actually, probably very good reason to swap to Vigor ring + T19 2p + T20 4p now.

    Dunno if the nerf will be enough to ditch the Bracers or not. Not really any other option for non-shoulder non-bracer setups, unless you want to run double rings lol.
    These changes don't really make a ton of sense to me, if they want to reduce our dps, then a percentage drop off the aura is a better way to effect change than something that's more difficult to measure like these changes.

  14. #6154
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    These changes don't really make a ton of sense to me, if they want to reduce our dps, then a percentage drop off the aura is a better way to effect change than something that's more difficult to measure like these changes.
    Bracers is probably a fair nerf, Shoulders is the weird one, especially since it affects all 3 specs.

    Eh. Maybe Vigor ring builds will be more viable.
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  15. #6155
    Quote Originally Posted by Won7on View Post
    Bracers is probably a fair nerf, Shoulders is the weird one, especially since it affects all 3 specs.

    Eh. Maybe Vigor ring builds will be more viable.
    is it a fair nerf tho?

    just because it's the only legendary that's even remotely good
    doesnt make it "OP"
    they shoulda buffed the other legendaries and most of all reworked the boots

    and the worst of it all

    is that we're not even overperforming

    we're like 5-6 best perfoming spec in mythic tos overall

  16. #6156
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    is it a fair nerf tho?

    just because it's the only legendary that's even remotely good
    doesnt make it "OP"
    they shoulda buffed the other legendaries and most of all reworked the boots

    and the worst of it all

    is that we're not even overperforming

    we're like 5-6 best perfoming spec in mythic tos overall
    Method stacked rogues, so reddit circlejerked and got us nerfed.

  17. #6157
    Quote Originally Posted by Tier539 View Post
    Method stacked rogues, so reddit circlejerked and got us nerfed.
    then nerf feint(well no dont but you get my point) method stacked rogues because they could soak touch of sargeras on avatar, that's it

    then since they were geared for avatar they might as well take them for KJ too

  18. #6158
    Interesting thing from the #1 Goroth parse: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...translate=true

    Look at Nightblade usage.

    Seems like paying any attention to Finality: Nightblade is basically a thing of the past, this guy's only concern was fully refreshing it before Symbols so it would be up for the whole combo.

    In fact, the buffed Nightblades (2,4,6 - even numbered ones) were actually clipped early and overwritten by unbuffed ones.

    Unless he still had a Finality: NB buff from trash and this is actually a genius way to parse. (Can't check because Finality doesn't seem to be tracked in the log??)

    Small thing, but if true, I think I'm not even gonna bother saying the old "try to let a buffed NB expire but refresh the unbuffed ones bla bla bla---" thing anymore when explaining the spec to ppl.
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  19. #6159
    Quote Originally Posted by Won7on View Post
    Interesting thing from the #1 Goroth parse: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...translate=true

    Look at Nightblade usage.

    Seems like paying any attention to Finality: Nightblade is basically a thing of the past, this guy's only concern was fully refreshing it before Symbols so it would be up for the whole combo.

    In fact, the buffed Nightblades (2,4,6 - even numbered ones) were actually clipped early and overwritten by unbuffed ones.

    Unless he still had a Finality: NB buff from trash and this is actually a genius way to parse. (Can't check because Finality doesn't seem to be tracked in the log??)

    Small thing, but if true, I think I'm not even gonna bother saying the old "try to let a buffed NB expire but refresh the unbuffed ones bla bla bla---" thing anymore when explaining the spec to ppl.
    Sub is all Eviscerate, Nightblade doesn't do much. Better to focus on doing good Dances than worrying about making Nightblade do slightly more damage imo.

  20. #6160
    Quote Originally Posted by Tier539 View Post
    Method stacked rogues, so reddit circlejerked and got us nerfed.
    Opinions on reddit is the best way to balance any game. I dare you to not agree and summon the blizzard white knights

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