View Poll Results: Do you want Shadowstep back?

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  • Yes, I want Shadowstep in it's current form.

    374 49.60%
  • No, I would like Shadowstep baked into Shadowstrike.

    124 16.45%
  • I don't really have strong feelings either way.

    256 33.95%
  1. #6161
    Quote Originally Posted by Won7on View Post
    So the MfD build, basically use it on CD? Or hold for Symbols? Or try to use it with Dance in some way?

    Also, for those of us still playing with T19 2pc. Once in a while your Finality: Nightblade will actually expire (full duration is 38 and if you have Symbols-DFA coming up in the end, you may go 30 seconds without a good opportunity to refresh NB). How do you guys prioritize this? Feels bad to waste a 24% buffed Nightblade, but feels bad to delay your CDs or clip NB at 15+ seconds too.
    either clip early or cast a low cp one to last one sod

    as for MFD

    you kinda have to feel it out

    most of the time use it on CD, but i sometimes keep it for SoD, but there isnt really any definitive number i use
    it also depends on whether ill do 1 or 2 dances in sod etc.

    i also use at the end of dance sometimes if i got finality up and another dance charge still in the bank



    Quote Originally Posted by Creativlol View Post
    I am not at home but the aoe part of dfa hits for atleast 1 million and more per add and boosts the st damage with enhanced evics even further.
    And you don t have to mouseover macro any adds just play the boss and hit most things with dfa every 20 sec.
    In aoe fights it is often better to use dfa on cd.

    Edit: I checked some of my logs. On Goroth mythic the aoe part of dfa had an average crit of 1,5 mio and average normal hit of 750k.
    That is pure ST. Now let there be 3-4 adds and that damage goes even higher for a spell useable every 20 secs.
    I don't know how other raid groups handle adds, but my raid kills adds almost simultaniously.
    if there's more than 1 target DFA consistently hits then it's clearly better

    but you forget that MFD gives more dance/blades uptime
    (and DFA also loses some autoattacks but that's negligible even accounting for ST procs)
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2017-07-16 at 06:54 PM.

  2. #6162
    Can I get some tips on how to use warcraft logs to check dance usage, wasted cp and energy?

  3. #6163
    Over 9000! Packers01's Avatar
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    I have been browsing this guide for a bit, was sin, seems like switching to sub will net me more dps. Is there like a TLDR version that kinds of sums up what is going on lately. Also is there a opener that people have decided on?
    "I don't want someone who has the knowledge, skill, or even personality necessary to be president. I want someone who can speak his bigoted mind without worrying about offending people!"- The batman

    Common courtesy is like common sense these days, neither of them are too common anymore.

  4. #6164
    Greetings guys!
    Checking rogues from Method first kill KJ (gratz to them) i see all sub rogues playing 4 pcs Tier 20 set + shoulders + vigor ring. They're trolling us (saving this setup in armory) or vigor ring is really better than bracers?
    I've tried it on doomy and OW bosses and this compilation is quite nice one...Will try this setup today in my raid.

    Any thoughts?

  5. #6165
    Thoughts: in progress kills Its often not min/Max dps WHO is main focus but survival and raid mecanics. Vigour ring is not a huge dps loss over bracers but same time let you use more energy, if feint is frequently used energystarvation is less with vigour ring.

  6. #6166
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowPingMD View Post
    Greetings guys!
    Checking rogues from Method first kill KJ (gratz to them) i see all sub rogues playing 4 pcs Tier 20 set + shoulders + vigor ring. They're trolling us (saving this setup in armory) or vigor ring is really better than bracers?
    I've tried it on doomy and OW bosses and this compilation is quite nice one...Will try this setup today in my raid.

    Any thoughts?
    Only two of them actually had bracers. That is the reason.

    Everyone was Assa in NH, Yliajo took long to actually to get all the Assa dps legendaries so he did not switch to sub lootspec until ToS. "worstplayer" I believe was the other with sub bracers. Others most likely were not played as much during NH, so no bracers.

    There is no hidden tactics, just trolling wowprogress and things not dropping.

  7. #6167
    Quote Originally Posted by satori sartori View Post
    Can I get some tips on how to use warcraft logs to check dance usage, wasted cp and energy?
    Open up your log. Click on your name, tab from "Damage Done" to "Ressources", then click on "Hit Points" below in the left corner and there you will find energy and combopoints.

    Best way to track the usage of ShD is to tab to "Casts" then change from "Tables" to "Timelines" and there you can track your whole fight with everything you did included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    I have been browsing this guide for a bit, was sin, seems like switching to sub will net me more dps. Is there like a TLDR version that kinds of sums up what is going on lately. Also is there a opener that people have decided on?

    Riff pretty much sums it up -> riff.tf

  8. #6168
    hey there,

    I checked Riff's guide about relics and kinda apply that to my character. The thing is when i'm watching log & KJ down from method, sub rogues are playing differently so I'm kinda lost.

    What is the best relic combo to apply considering I've all sub leggos

  9. #6169
    Quote Originally Posted by upliftin View Post
    hey there,

    I checked Riff's guide about relics and kinda apply that to my character. The thing is when i'm watching log & KJ down from method, sub rogues are playing differently so I'm kinda lost.

    What is the best relic combo to apply considering I've all sub leggos
    As long as you dont have a log, you dont know what set-up they actually played. Perfecto for sure didnt play Outlaw on KJ, he logged out as Outlaw to troll. Spookie is an alt of his main dk, so he doesnt even have all Sub legendaries i guess. The other 3 rogues played Sub i thinkg, apprently two of them used the ring instead of the bracers. I dont know the whole fight but it might be cause ring is more effective since you have a couples of intermissions and cant get the maximum benefit of Shadowblades, but it is just a guess, i have no clue. Maybe they dont even have bracers and thus pick the ring.

    For relics, you just want to use SimC. Noone can tell you, so just sim it. Soul Shadows is preferable with CoF and Bracers, but it is also very dependent on the relic's lvl. So Gutripper, Energetic Stabbing or Weak Point are all viable as long as they are higher than your other relic but again, just sim it.

  10. #6170
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurellio View Post
    As long as you dont have a log, you dont know what set-up they actually played. Perfecto for sure didnt play Outlaw on KJ, he logged out as Outlaw to troll. Spookie is an alt of his main dk, so he doesnt even have all Sub legendaries i guess. The other 3 rogues played Sub i thinkg, apprently two of them used the ring instead of the bracers. I dont know the whole fight but it might be cause ring is more effective since you have a couples of intermissions and cant get the maximum benefit of Shadowblades, but it is just a guess, i have no clue. Maybe they dont even have bracers and thus pick the ring.

    For relics, you just want to use SimC. Noone can tell you, so just sim it. Soul Shadows is preferable with CoF and Bracers, but it is also very dependent on the relic's lvl. So Gutripper, Energetic Stabbing or Weak Point are all viable as long as they are higher than your other relic but again, just sim it.
    Yep I know that (about that outlaw part) just checked on wowprogress when they logged out on sub spec.

    Thanks for your answer on relics, I'll figure it out by simming

  11. #6171
    Over 9000! Packers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurellio View Post
    Open up your log. Click on your name, tab from "Damage Done" to "Ressources", then click on "Hit Points" below in the left corner and there you will find energy and combopoints.

    Best way to track the usage of ShD is to tab to "Casts" then change from "Tables" to "Timelines" and there you can track your whole fight with everything you did included.




    Riff pretty much sums it up -> riff.tf
    thank you,
    10 chars
    "I don't want someone who has the knowledge, skill, or even personality necessary to be president. I want someone who can speak his bigoted mind without worrying about offending people!"- The batman

    Common courtesy is like common sense these days, neither of them are too common anymore.

  12. #6172
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurellio View Post
    Open up your log. Click on your name, tab from "Damage Done" to "Ressources", then click on "Hit Points" below in the left corner and there you will find energy and combopoints.

    Best way to track the usage of ShD is to tab to "Casts" then change from "Tables" to "Timelines" and there you can track your whole fight with everything you did included.




    Riff pretty much sums it up -> riff.tf
    Thanks fghcfghcgfh
    Last edited by satori sartori; Yesterday at 06:37 PM.

  13. #6173
    Stood in the Fire Won7on's Avatar
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    Got the Vigor ring today.

    Even a really mediocre 2p+4p+Bracers+Ring setup (using the garbage Haste-heavy ToS helm and 890 shoulders from NH cause that's all I got) simmed within 8k of my regular setup. That's despite losing almost 3 full item levels. And I have nothing special in relics, 1 Gutripper and only 48% Evisc crit chance.

    So, yeah. The ring is a really viable alternative, at least on paper.

    In practice, I think doing 1.2M with periods of burst-wait-burst-wait is stronger than doing a sustained 1.2M because the former is better when you have boss downtime, or mechanics that temporarily buff your DPS (Mistress, Maiden).
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  14. #6174
    Can't find it but can anyone basically explain me how the vanish cancel AA works? And what I've to save in the macro to make it work?

    I saw different version on this: some will tell it works, some will tell it's not working so I'm confused..

  15. #6175
    Guys, I dropped wrist finally, (already have shoulders), now I'm checking talents for it. Almost everybody who is ranked on warcraftlogs is using 1110013, but according simcraft (tc.ravenholdt.net/combinations/rogue_subtlety_t20m.html) 2310012 is significantly better. Even when I sim my char, it is +20k boost. Why? Is it worth to try it? No guide mention this setup.

    Another question regarding legendaries - single target => wrists + mantle. But for AOE heavy fights there is a lot of ppl who use back. Can you recommend for which ToS bosses use back? I guess that Hartajan, Mistress, Desolate host? Some even use it on KJ HC. Wonder if there is any ToS specific sub guide?

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