No info for shamans, AGAIN

[wordup]

Over a discussion? No. Over pathetic whining that sucks all the fun from everyone visiting the forums and floods mmo-champion like a freaking tsunami every day because of every single thing imaginable? Yes, million times yes.

Ok, then maybe you should apply that to yourself whining at someone for asking a question about something you, yourself, didn't even know happened which did, and supplied some answers. I think you need to go to bed.

[Razaron]

Small hope

https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/663147233743798277

[Deleted]

Seems blizz completly ignored the entire class again, like the past few years, better start thinking reroll demon hunter, or other classes.
Sad panda

You didn't notice that they either glossed over or didn't mention like HALF of the classes in that class panel?

[dippinsawse]

Yea but what that means is now we have something that does matter. that will have to be monitor a bit.

At least it's a step but I just wish they knew how to create mechanics other than what are essentially combo points for every class. Hopefully it gets some major tweaks from what enh currently uses because it is already an even worse version of combo points, built up to cast a shitty spell that you don't manage and don't even really have to prioritize or worry about.

[Nyoken]

WE GETTING A NEW RESOURCE!!! its confirmed, shaman changes for legion! Hype!

[Deleted]

WE GETTING A NEW RESOURCE!!! its confirmed, shaman changes for legion! Hype!

Hm.. okay, new shadow priest seems rly cool of you ask me

[Murderdoll]

WE GETTING A NEW RESOURCE!!! its confirmed, shaman changes for legion! Hype!

Resource system doesnt fix really any of the issues with the class. I cant wait to get away from the smoke and mirrors and into the details that matter.

[rogas]

I'm quite hyped about the new resource system. Don't think elem needed a complete overhaul. Just addressing our issues will do. Elementals have tons of spells, cooldowns and totems. Most of our usage is determined by situation but foremost availability. Guess blizz can now remove or shorten cd's. We could end up with some interesting gameplays.

[Deleted]

Resource system doesnt fix really any of the issues with the class. I cant wait to get away from the smoke and mirrors and into the details that matter.

That is not true. At least we dont know yet if it will, as it depends on the execution. Depending on personal preference, you can view certain characteristics of ele/enh gameplay as problematic and in need of change. I cant say much on elemental, but for enh;
- We cant currently pool damage. We are a stream of constant damage with no impressive burst spikes which could serve for kill windows in pvp, or "WOW" moments during BL in pve. Being the spammy type of playstyle we are now, neither SS/LL can hit for substantial amounts. This becomes clear when playing a shaman at lower levels. All these buffs to those two abilities made them (esp SS) hit for huge amounts of dmg. Enh on lower levels plays like a god (feels really overpowered) which is result of 4 of these hits right after each other in single target (FN aoe is just as if not more OP). => likely higher burst capabilities and less damage loss when not on target
- Leveling a new shaman, you do not have MSW for quite a while and when you do get it, you wont have the perk yet until much later, hence LB/CL are pathetically weak(er) than even on lvl100, hence very low prio. This doesn't bother much though, because actually doing melee damage feels so much more natural rather than chucking ranged spells at melee range. => maybe more focus on actual melee strikes with the new system? I sure hope so!
- A recource, depending on execution, is like to force a reduced amount of ability kit, as to many interacting abilities will make it hard to design. We have/had as many abilities as we had because we had no recource, and you could just keep piling it on without worry.
That said, I sure do hope we dont end up with just 4 abilities in single target. Finding the middle ground of curring out the rotten parts, and maybe adding in one or two new things which actually involve proper thinking on the devs part, and this is one big chance.

I get your sentiment that big changes bring big risks, but we've run without big changes for more than a decade now, and look where it's taken us. I rather take the plunge and risk this. Also if blizz really broke with a decades' tradition of hardly giving us enough to chew on and actually spend work on us, I bet they'd be more willing to keep working on it to make sure it runs smoothly, rather than some uninspired from the get go shit like Stormelemental Totem, which wont prompt further changes down the road.

Hunter, warlock, moonkins and Paladins all have seen more than one rework, most likely exactly because they've received a big one they weren't to happy with. But they at least had to start with the first one.

[Deleted]

Stupid orcdoomhammer already shattered all my hope for enhancement!

[Tyze]

Of course there's been info for Shamans. Confirmed a new type of resource (not mana anymore) confirmed they are working on Totems and will change them.

[Schadow]

Its called 'Tears', self generated, even out of combat

I wish I could like this over and over and over again.

[dippinsawse]

That is not true. At least we dont know yet if it will, as it depends on the execution. Depending on personal preference, you can view certain characteristics of ele/enh gameplay as problematic and in need of change. I cant say much on elemental, but for enh;
- We cant currently pool damage. We are a stream of constant damage with no impressive burst spikes which could serve for kill windows in pvp, or "WOW" moments during BL in pve. Being the spammy type of playstyle we are now, neither SS/LL can hit for substantial amounts. This becomes clear when playing a shaman at lower levels. All these buffs to those two abilities made them (esp SS) hit for huge amounts of dmg. Enh on lower levels plays like a god (feels really overpowered) which is result of 4 of these hits right after each other in single target (FN aoe is just as if not more OP). => likely higher burst capabilities and less damage loss when not on target

I don't think pooling damage is much of an issue with enh, at least not in pvp (maybe you mean more for pve which is probably a bigger drawback of enh though pooling damage is also less of an issue in pve whereas general burst is the key). One of the strengths of Enh is that it basically has no wind up time. You just run in and slap people. This is why you will often see enh above other melee in BG's excluding OP rogues and DK's spamming charts with pointless lol plague damage. Enh in BG's can run up to someone and dump 2 by 2 lava lashes and stormstrikes into someone without building up any damage first. Compare this to monks who need chi, energy, to attack to stack a self buff, to attack with something else to stack a debuff, tigereye brew stacks, and THEN they can finally put some damage into you. So yes, while they can't pool a ton of damage compared to some other classes, it is less of a problem because in exchange the have no set up for their damage and since PvP often means you won't have full up time on your damage, the ability to switch a target with no ramp up makes up for that drawback.

[Volitar]

I don't think pooling damage is much of an issue with enh, at least not in pvp (maybe you mean more for pve which is probably a bigger drawback of enh though pooling damage is also less of an issue in pve whereas general burst is the key). One of the strengths of Enh is that it basically has no wind up time. You just run in and slap people. This is why you will often see enh above other melee in BG's excluding OP rogues and DK's spamming charts with pointless lol plague damage. Enh in BG's can run up to someone and dump 2 by 2 lava lashes and stormstrikes into someone without building up any damage first. Compare this to monks who need chi, energy, to attack to stack a self buff, to attack with something else to stack a debuff, tigereye brew stacks, and THEN they can finally put some damage into you. So yes, while they can't pool a ton of damage compared to some other classes, it is less of a problem because in exchange the have no set up for their damage and since PvP often means you won't have full up time on your damage, the ability to switch a target with no ramp up makes up for that drawback.

Comparing two specs in terms of random battlegrounds means literally nothing..

As for the new resource, lets hope it actually fixes things. Mained Ele from Wotlk-Cata and there were only a few tiers that were actually competitive. Hell, in Ulduar (the 2nd tier of Wotlk) the Demonology Warlock spellpower buff overtook the Ele buff in full BiS gear (Demo's buff scaled based off their gear) and during that time the 'hybrid tax' was still in effect.

(Firelands was pretty baller tho, esp if you got your staff)

[Darksoldierr]

Personally, i don't feel the need for new resource, for enhance that is. I would prefer a spell with longer cd which hits hard than remaking the entire spec, it is pretty fun and i like the short cd spammy spells, always something to do

[Volitar]

Personally, i don't feel the need for new resource, for enhance that is. I would prefer a spell with longer cd which hits hard than remaking the entire spec, it is pretty fun and i like the short cd spammy spells, always something to do

Yeah I agree I like Enh. Could you imagine Stormstrike = Sinister Strike and Lava Lash = Eviscerate?

feels gross thinking about it

[Murderdoll]

That is not true. At least we dont know yet if it will, as it depends on the execution. Depending on personal preference, you can view certain characteristics of ele/enh gameplay as problematic and in need of change.

I totally agree. However, Enhance and Elemental already have "resources". This change is a moot point because mana has been meaningless for the past 7 years outside of hardcasting heals. We spent our stacks of Fulmination and Maelstrm weapon like any other resource. How does shifting the goal post solve any of the core issues with the class, things like bloated damage breakdowns, bloated CDs? If you want to address those things, do you then attach the resource to things like Stormstrike and risk slowing down the spec because you want them to not use them untill they have their Maelstrom up? Id say keeping the core foundation of a quick, fast paced spec is the most important thing here. Personally speaking, if it wasnt as quick as it was, I wouldnt play it anymore.

- We cant currently pool damage. We are a stream of constant damage with no impressive burst spikes which could serve for kill windows in pvp, or "WOW" moments during BL in pve.

I see that as an issue in PVP, certainly. The lack of an execute hurts Shaman there. However, with EotE, pooling damage with Lava Lash, Stormstrike and Fire Nova can be done. Not fantastically, but it can be done. I think this point will need to wait till we see what its actually applied to. Would you have it attached to things like LL as a % buff per stack of Maelstrom?

I get your sentiment that big changes bring big risks, but we've run without big changes for more than a decade now, and look where it's taken us. I rather take the plunge and risk this.

Thats not my sentiment at all. My sentiment is that removing a resource noone cares about and saying "hey look at this new shiney" which we essentially have already, is not far enough. If its simply a new name for something that allows us to use LB more, than I couldnt care less.

If theyre legit about this resource thing, then it needs to be an actual resource we care about.

I have a feeling we will be seeing Searing Flames make a return under the disguise of Maelstrom Power and that will act as our resource spender and big hitter.

[dippinsawse]

Comparing two specs in terms of random battlegrounds means literally nothing..

As for the new resource, lets hope it actually fixes things. Mained Ele from Wotlk-Cata and there were only a few tiers that were actually competitive. Hell, in Ulduar (the 2nd tier of Wotlk) the Demonology Warlock spellpower buff overtook the Ele buff in full BiS gear (Demo's buff scaled based off their gear) and during that time the 'hybrid tax' was still in effect.

(Firelands was pretty baller tho, esp if you got your staff)

Does it not illustrate my point to you? I think that is your failure, not the example's. The example showed that shaman can't pool as much damage as some other classes but they are less reliant on doing so because of the reasons described. Some classes have lots of ramp up but can pool more damage, some classes are the opposite. Shaman are the latter. Do you disagree with that or what? Just going "lol BG's" doesn't make any point at all.

[Xanda]

I hope with all these changes to talents, PE will be throw out the window.

[Pantsless]

How does shifting the goal post solve any of the core issues with the class, things like bloated damage breakdowns, bloated CDs

It doesn't but it is a very good starting point. A resource ( and i mean i proper resourcer with builders, spenders and choice involved) is just means to an end.

If you want to address those things, do you then attach the resource to things like Stormstrike

exactly !!!

and risk slowing down the spec because you want them to not use them untill they have their Maelstrom up?

Look at Retribution, it's anything but slow !!

Id say keeping the core foundation of a quick, fast paced spec is the most important thing here. Personally speaking, if it wasnt as quick as it was, I wouldnt play it anymore.

Again, there is no reason why a resource would make Enhance slow. How fast a spec is all about how the developers decide to tweak CD's. Enhancement was very slow during cata, so slow in fact that people had time to hard cast 2 MSW LB and it had nothing to do with resources.

@ Oamenly ... I get your sentiment that big changes bring big risks, but we've run without big changes for more than a decade now, and look where it's taken us. I rather take the plunge and risk this.

Exactly !