Ion Hazzikostas Interview, Class Blog Post Times, Hunter Changes Feedback

[Deleted]

You can recharge and do it again also for loot. It doesn't matter if it's not 100% chance, it's there and we're talking about contents that are power progression based challenges.

"If you fail to beat a timer on a run that you have initiated, your keystone is depleted. The depleted keystone can still be used to start additional runs, but those runs won't give a loot chest at the end."

"The quality of the loot you get from the weekly jackpot is going to be significantly higher. There is a possibility of getting a lucky upgrade from the regular runs, but at some point your main goal will become the weekly chest."

This is exactly like how normal dungeons have always been only it allows a continuous progression rather than being done with them altogether once you reach entry level raid equipment.

And no quite frankly the only bad type of player for the community are the ones part of the extremes. I.E those who don't want relevant loot to be obtainable outside raids and those that want everything for as little effort as possible.

You're dangerously close to the first demographic.

[Deleted]

If you fail to beat a timer on a run that you have initiated, your keystone is depleted. The depleted keystone can still be used to start additional runs, but those runs won't give a loot chest at the end.

This is a very very very very bad idea. It means players will only want a sure thing, which will result in unreasonable expectations for pugs. It will result in players who don't have experience being completely left out of challenge mode runs. It will result in paid boosts for loot instead of fun experience.

Players should be encouraged to try things. Punishment for failure only results in bad experience for everyone.

Way to ruin whole idea.

[apelsinjuice]

This is a very very very very bad idea. It means players will only want a sure thing, which will result in unreasonable expectations for pugs. It will result in players who don't have experience being completely left out of challenge mode runs. It will result in paid boosts for loot instead of fun experience.

Players should be encouraged to try things. Punishment for failure only results in bad experience for everyone.

Way to ruin whole idea.

When you fail you get loot but the keystone gets depleted and you can still start a new run with no loot, what you missed to quoute or read is that if you manage to sucess that run in the time frame the keystone will be charged again and you can do it again for new loot. So the only punish will be that you have to run the dungeon 1 time without getting any loot, or until you complete it, which is perfectly fine.

[VanishO2]

"If you fail to beat a timer on a run that you have initiated, your keystone is depleted. The depleted keystone can still be used to start additional runs, but those runs won't give a loot chest at the end."

"The quality of the loot you get from the weekly jackpot is going to be significantly higher. There is a possibility of getting a lucky upgrade from the regular runs, but at some point your main goal will become the weekly chest."

This is exactly like how normal dungeons have always been only it allows a continuous progression rather than being done with them altogether once you reach entry level raid equipment.

And no quite frankly the only bad type of player for the community are the ones part of the extremes. I.E those who don't want relevant loot to be obtainable outside raids and those that want everything for as little effort as possible.

You're dangerously close to the first demographic.

Nope, sry. You're the one being aggressive (or even the passive-aggressive) kind here, wich are the worst ones for any community.

In any moment I've tried to bash you, to try to make you look like a stupid person, to diminish you in any form while you just going rampant on cliches about "snowflake" and etc.

Like the other talking about crybabies, etc... Just people trying to say that they're better and the others are stupid/crap persons.

Back to the point, you've quoted exactly it. The depleted keystone, while won't give you a chest at the end, will give you another shot at finishing the dungeon in time and recharging it to the next level, where you are elegible again to get stuff. And even tough you're aiming the weekly chest, you will still be able to get loot upgrades from the regular run as long as you're elegible for getting it. The way the loot system works now and will work in legion is that you will be able to loot something that is very high level because it will be a chance.

Unless you can only get ONE chest per week, not matter how hard was the tier you did, you'll be able to climb it and loot another weekly chest (for that tier). Otherwise the system would get weird really fast, as you'll only do it if you want to beat the ladder, but since they're not weekly, most will prefer to do it when they could get a higher lvl chest next week.

This is all diferent from how normal dungeons are or have ever been. We never had normal dungeons giving loot with the same power as raids do. They're always behind, even challenge mode bags didn't. So there are plenty of tests and feedback they need to get for it to go ok with the rest of the game and everything else they deem important (like the burnout effect in WotLK).

Part of the reason they actually give information about what they want to do for the next expansion is to gather feedback and reactions. So, yes, if they didn't think about this situation, they'll think with the feedback.

[Deleted]

About the Glaives and Ashbringer thing, he says IN THE VIDEO "the iconic look of those weapons were designed to be rare and to stand out in their time and place and now they are so much more readily acquireable", they were unique when they were useful and hard to get. Legendary items cant be transmogged because the effort to get them has gone away as out powerlevel increases.

[VanishO2]

So there you go, they're adding more in to do for good gear progression than just competitive raiding.

This is great!

Yeap, but like all things, they need to be balanced with each other. Otherwise you would just create a new one "only progression".

It's what they do with arena/rbgs/bgs. They're always striking to get a balance between them (while keeping the fact that there is a huge gap between a group of 2, 3 or 5 players and a group of 10 or more).

That's what they'll need to do with this new type of challenge. Specially with the variable that it's a power based centered activity, unlike pvp wich isn't all based in power progression (and more on fair competition).

[Deleted]

Back to the point, you've quoted exactly it. The depleted keystone, while won't give you a chest at the end, will give you another shot at finishing the dungeon in time and recharging it to the next level, where you are elegible again to get stuff. And even tough you're aiming the weekly chest, you will still be able to get loot upgrades from the regular run as long as you're elegible for getting it. The way the loot system works now and will work in legion is that you will be able to loot something that is very high level because it will be a chance.

Unless you can only get ONE chest per week, not matter how hard was the tier you did, you'll be able to climb it and loot another weekly chest (for that tier). Otherwise the system would get weird really fast, as you'll only do it if you want to beat the ladder, but since they're not weekly, most will prefer to do it when they could get a higher lvl chest next week.

This is all diferent from how normal dungeons are or have ever been. We never had normal dungeons giving loot with the same power as raids do. They're always behind, even challenge mode bags didn't. So there are plenty of tests and feedback they need to get for it to go ok with the rest of the game and everything else they deem important (like the burnout effect in WotLK).

Part of the reason they actually give information about what they want to do for the next expansion is to gather feedback and reactions. So, yes, if they didn't think about this situation, they'll think with the feedback.

Your whole argument is based on a group that can continue progressing without failing, not only is that going to take an enormous amount of time but you're also going to run in to a hardcap where you literally can't go any further before you have more gear. And since the only way to get gear is to run said CMs you can't use that keystone anymore.

Want to use another party-member's stone? go for it, but you have to rank it up all those times again to get to a gear level where you can get upgrades. Once again, going to take a very long time to farm this way.

Not to mention you completely missed the point I was making with the resemblance to normal dungeons. You say there's always a chance to get loot, I said that's how its always been. If you don't like it you should look for another game to play.

Considering most of your posts have been disregarding everything said to make your argument work though I don't imagine you'll change your views regardless of what's presented. Ergo, I'm done.

[Deleted]

''In the patch before Legion, there will be a demon invasion of our world, with invasions happening all over the world.''
FUCK YEAH!

[Deleted]

When you fail you get loot but the keystone gets depleted and you can still start a new run with no loot, what you missed to quoute or read is that if you manage to sucess that run in the time frame the keystone will be charged again and you can do it again for new loot. So the only punish will be that you have to run the dungeon 1 time without getting any loot, or until you complete it, which is perfectly fine.

That is a big problem. So when player tries, but fails, trying again and succeeding doesn't reward player. Instead he must succeed again to be rewarded. So to overcome failure he must succeed twice in a row. That is assuming he finds someone with charged keystone to do it.

Too many pointless blocks to discourage players from trying. I don't see how this is a good idea, but I see plenty of reasons (listed in my previous post) why its a bad idea.

[VanishO2]

Your whole argument is based on a group that can continue progressing without failing, not only is that going to take an enormous amount of time but you're also going to run in to a hardcap where you literally can't go any further before you have more gear. And since the only way to get gear is to run said CMs you can't use that keystone anymore.

Want to use another party-member's stone? go for it, but you have to rank it up all those times again to get to a gear level where you can get upgrades. Once again, going to take a very long time to farm this way.

Not to mention you completely missed the point I was making with the resemblance to normal dungeons. You say there's always a chance to get loot, I said that's how its always been. If you don't like it you should look for another game to play.

Considering most of your posts have been disregarding everything said to make your argument work though I don't imagine you'll change your views regardless of what's presented. Ergo, I'm done.

Yeah dude, you're the best, others are crap. You're done. Thanks for all your service to the community pointing out that someone is actually talking/giving reasons to support their argument instead of "i'm right, you're snowflake." and other kinds of passive-aggressive behavior.

But really, wouldn't you think that serious raiders, good raiders, good players, wouldn't actually be able to progress more in one week than your average player? People can actually kill bosses in a dificulty that others would only do with more gear. More power, more chances at succeeding. That's what power progression based content is all about.

Is it good that you would waste tons of hours trying to get the most out of it? Not to mention the others spent with the raid progression itself and anything else that would actually give you an edge in a power progression based activity? It's when the fun is drained out of an activity that things need to get looked at and Blizzard did from time to time, drawing the line where they deem necessary and that only happens thanks to player feedback (you're a snowflake and the kind aren't feedback). That's their goal talking about the future xpac to be honest.

As you've said "Once again, going to take a very long time to farm this way.". That's what the guy actually complained. The increased amount of time you'll need to put in outside of raiding... to raid.

And no, it's not like the normal dungeons. You'll only get that same loot, even if it's now random itemization (not that much) in WoD, you'll not be doing it forever because there is no chance to get anything better than it's reward tier. Not matter how many times you run it, how fast you do it, you'll get that kind of reward and that's it. You'll need to change to heroic, but it will be the same and still lower than raids. Now Mythic dungeon, but still the same behavior. If I didn't like this, or this game at all, I wouldn't be playing it since 2005 without unsub.

The new tiered CM are totally diferent. You can get lower, equal or even higher loot than a raid dificulty (mythic warforged would be the limit).

[Deleted]

I get your argument (extremely valid btw), but I also think Blizzard is trying to make failure mean something again.

Death is a minor inconvenience and outside of the rare Ra-den attempts type boss, there's not really mitch penalty for failure, which takes away some of thrill of success.

Punishing for failure is ok when failure is caused by player himself. Punishing for failure that could potentially be caused by other players is a terrible idea.

Most players don't have convenience of tight knit guild runs, so they will pug challenge modes. If players are punished for failing to complete CM because of other players in group, pugging will be impossible. Players will want only sure things, new players will not be able to even try CMs, boosting services will be flourishing.

Even in guild groups players who aren't best in guild will have hard time doing those instances because their guild mates would rather take someone better to minimize chance of failure.

It is bad for everyone, except for people selling boosts.

[Deleted]

As you've said "Once again, going to take a very long time to farm this way.". That's what the guy actually complained. The increased amount of time you'll need to put in outside of raiding... to raid.

Or you could not be a shit player and you wouldn't need to do all that farming and have gear carry your ass through the raid.

[RuneDK]

On the topic of flying, I am glad they are going to keep it and the way to unlock it now is an achievement. Makes you play the game to earn it instead of just handing over gold and it's all good...That is a great choice on their part.

[Deleted]

I've just noticed one more thing about CMs:

If you are a skilled fully Mythic geared player, you will be able to do a very high tier challenge mode dungeon and they want to give you a chance to get loot comparable to that.

So new CMs don't scale down gear? If they don't, it sucks big time.

Mythic raiders already have enough content. Its content for 99% of other players that WoW badly lacks.

If new CMs don't scale down gear and punish players for failing, it will be yet another toxic feature. Only players benefiting from it will be mythic raiders who'll be making money selling boosts.


Ian, WHAT THE HELL are you smoking????? Game needs LESS elitist bullshit, not more!

[VanishO2]

Or you could not be a shit player and you wouldn't need to do all that farming and have gear carry your ass through the raid.

Dude, you're really bad at it and says I'm the one "dangerously close to the first demographic."

You can't be that obtuse to say that people at high end guilds like Paragon, Method and others (that do ALL that farming and more) are shit players when they've alread voiced their concerns from time to time when things like that arise.

If they feel bad about that, imagine average players that need to fill that gap with gear power and obviously will need to put way more time on it.

I've finished WoD challenge modes a few weeks (december) after WoD's launch while most were still trying and it was something that I would never want to do again if it was supposed to be every week, beating timer again and again to keep the transmogs. Of course WoD challenges are very diferent from Legion ones since we're talking about power and not cosmetics. Also dungeon timers to beat, not other player's timers, but the necessity arises when you need to get more power, for whatever reason (you're doing a large group activity, there are plenty of reasons for it). You don't always farm gear because "you're shit", you know?

- - - Updated - - -

I've just noticed one more thing about CMs:
So new CMs don't scale down gear? If they don't, it sucks big time.

It's like Greater rifts from Diablo 3. They'll get harder and harder and you'll need more and more gear (aside from skill and good group play) to keep going through.

[Deleted]

You don't always farm gear because "you're shit", you know?

Yet that's all you've been advocating this whole thread. That people are going to farm CMs because they need the gear to make raiding as easy as possible.

If raiding is what you enjoy then maybe you should try focusing on raiding and less about what other alternatives there are in the game?

Here, maybe a picture will make it easier for you to understand just how stupid that complaint is.

[VanishO2]

Yet that's all you've been advocating this whole thread. That people are going to farm CMs because they need the gear to make raiding as easy as possible.

If raiding is what you enjoy then maybe you should try focusing on raiding and less about what other alternatives there are in the game?

Here, maybe a picture will make it easier for you to understand just how stupid that complaint is.

Dude... you're really, really problematic. It's even fun seeing you trying to mock someone because they're reasoning their point/argument with you while all you do to support anything you're saying that remotely seems a point/argument is "you're shit".

You failed really hard to grasp any kind of point in the whole thread or even basic concepts of the game, game development and others.

You fail to see that people will try to gather more power even if they're the best at playing this game. Even Method will farm for gear to meet a raid boss timer. It is the power based challenge concept that drives it.

You should really stop what you doing. Your attitude really sucks. Just as a reminder, people that voiced their concerns running sites like this one, about game burnout effects in WotLK for example, now work at Blizzard. People like you, with this pitiful attitude... don't and will never be and it's not hard to get why someone like you would never get a chance there (doesn't matter if you actually want it or not, it's not the point). It's simple as that.

[Deleted]

You should really stop what you doing. Your attitude really sucks. Just as a reminder, people that voiced their concerns running sites like this one, about game burnout effects in WotLK for example, now work at Blizzard. People like you, with this pitiful attitude... don't and will never be and it's not hard to get why someone like you would never get a chance there (doesn't matter if you actually want it or not, it's not the point). It's simple as that.

Says the person crying about an optional progression system being added aside from raiding and repeatedly makes feeble attempts to insult me. Cute.

Have you even considered the fact that not everyone playing this game only cares about raiding? No, you probably haven't because in your mind everything should be balanced around raiding as end-game and anything that upsets that balance is bad for you so it has to be changed. Talk about entitlement issues.

[Necrotica]

Ah, that does make more sense. Thanks for clearing it up.

With Rogues being last... naturally.

[Nerraw]

With Rogues being last... naturally.

Saving the best for last?