Shadow. The PVP NewGOD.

[RsinRC]

Hopefully, tho 1 interupt on VT or MB means no Shadowmend or insanity generation via damage thus shutting us down pretty hard. Having to juke on 2 spells of the same school is a pretty bad place to be in for arena.

You're right though it isn't as different than it is now. We got spoiled with instant Mind Blast and the only damaging spell we really needed to juke has been VT. I like to juke veteran players with a flash heal in the face so I can use my damaging abilities but it looks like we wont have that now. However, that one talent, Void Shield, where we heal for 50% of the damage we deal for 5 seconds after using PW: Shield will help substantially. It's a mini Vampiric Embrace every 6 seconds. Imo that is huge especially in VForm.

[wombats23]

(Talking from a 3v3 perspective.)

I actually don't think Void Shield will be that great. Now, I'm saying this assuming the meta won't really change much come Legion (I'm not saying it won't change, but nothing strongly suggests we'll delineate from this playstyle). By that I mean the kill target gets disabled (e.g. kidney, horror, leg sweep, etc.), in a lot of cases the healer gets CC'd and damage commences on the kill target (you). For Void Shield to be effective, you'd need to do some serious damage, but that means blowing your damage in order to just keep yourself alive, and that's assuming you have your damage ready to go (you also have to blow a GCD just casting PWS, which may or may not be significant, esp. if you're getting spam purged by enemy healer/enh shaman). It just seems like it's too conditional of a talent to be GREAT. I'm not gonna deny that it can be a god send, but it's just a bit too situational for my taste.

That said, the turn around potential if you have your insanity ready to go sounds freaking awesome. And hey, the meta might just change in Legion (it'd be nice!) So who knows! In some sense, you can view Void Shield as a minor amount of additional effective mitigation that requires no additional GCDs (because you'd naturally PWS in those situations anyway), and that might translate to just the small bump in tankiness that spriests need to be arena overlords.

[RsinRC]

(Talking from a 3v3 perspective.)

I actually don't think Void Shield will be that great. Now, I'm saying this assuming the meta won't really change much come Legion (I'm not saying it won't change, but nothing strongly suggests we'll delineate from this playstyle). By that I mean the kill target gets disabled (e.g. kidney, horror, leg sweep, etc.), in a lot of cases the healer gets CC'd and damage commences on the kill target (you). For Void Shield to be effective, you'd need to do some serious damage, but that means blowing your damage in order to just keep yourself alive, and that's assuming you have your damage ready to go (you also have to blow a GCD just casting PWS, which may or may not be significant, esp. if you're getting spam purged by enemy healer/enh shaman). It just seems like it's too conditional of a talent to be GREAT. I'm not gonna deny that it can be a god send, but it's just a bit too situational for my taste.

That said, the turn around potential if you have your insanity ready to go sounds freaking awesome. And hey, the meta might just change in Legion (it'd be nice!) So who knows! In some sense, you can view Void Shield as a minor amount of additional effective mitigation that requires no additional GCDs (because you'd naturally PWS in those situations anyway), and that might translate to just the small bump in tankiness that spriests need to be arena overlords.

Everything in PvP is situational though lol. When all our survivability CDs are used up, currently, one thing we tend to do is DP (@ 3 orbs), shield up and pray we can survive a bit more. It's like a super mini emergency backup heal when we're being trained. We're doing damage and healing. Sure its situational but having 50% of your damage converted to healing up to EVERY 6 seconds (if they take out the weakend soul debuff like theyre saying) with a PW: S on works almost the same but on crack when we have it going for us. Situational or not, it will most likely become the default cookie- cutter talent. At meta I see the extra 30% on dispersion being highly valued though.

[wombats23]

Everything in PvP is situational though lol. When all our survivability CDs are used up, currently, one thing we tend to do is DP (@ 3 orbs), shield up and pray we can survive a bit more. It's like a super mini emergency backup heal when we're being trained. We're doing damage and healing. Sure its situational but having 50% of your damage converted to healing up to EVERY 6 seconds (if they take out the weakend soul debuff like theyre saying) with a PW: S on works almost the same but on crack when we have it going for us. Situational or not, it will most likely become the default cookie- cutter talent. At meta I see the extra 30% on dispersion being highly valued though.

DP is on demand and with instant MB building orbs is not a big deal. As long as you're not delaying your horror + deep/sheep cross CC's too much, you're not losing out on anything.

Void Shield requires you to give up either 90% dispersion (and Wowhead's dispersion tooltip no longer says we can't cast while dispersed) or 60 second VE (kinda lackluster, but the only talent in the row that helps our party members). Hell, if you're being trained in Legion, what damage are you really going to be putting out? You no longer have instant MB from CoP, no FDCL MS procs, DP is gone, and SWD's spell power coefficient is (currently) a lot lower than live. I just can't imagine Void Shield being as substantial as you initially said. I can certainly see it becoming the default choice because of ease of use, but I doubt it'll be the best choice.

[Scooby Dooby Doo]

Let's see how godly that spec will be without feathers and spectral guise.

[Deleted]

DP is on demand and with instant MB building orbs is not a big deal. As long as you're not delaying your horror + deep/sheep cross CC's too much, you're not losing out on anything.

Void Shield requires you to give up either 90% dispersion (and Wowhead's dispersion tooltip no longer says we can't cast while dispersed) or 60 second VE (kinda lackluster, but the only talent in the row that helps our party members). Hell, if you're being trained in Legion, what damage are you really going to be putting out? You no longer have instant MB from CoP, no FDCL MS procs, DP is gone, and SWD's spell power coefficient is (currently) a lot lower than live. I just can't imagine Void Shield being as substantial as you initially said. I can certainly see it becoming the default choice because of ease of use, but I doubt it'll be the best choice.

SWP ticks have a chance to reset MB and make it instant, and you can use shadowy insight on top of that.

[Scooby Dooby Doo]

SWP ticks have a chance to reset MB.

Not according to the talent calculator / sw pain tooltip. Did I overlook something? Where did you get that information from?

[Deleted]

You're right though it isn't as different than it is now. We got spoiled with instant Mind Blast and the only damaging spell we really needed to juke has been VT. I like to juke veteran players with a flash heal in the face so I can use my damaging abilities but it looks like we wont have that now. However, that one talent, Void Shield, where we heal for 50% of the damage we deal for 5 seconds after using PW: Shield will help substantially. It's a mini Vampiric Embrace every 6 seconds. Imo that is huge especially in VForm.

I do the same, but generally i concentrate on building orbs, not having VT up is not a massive game changer, i do cast it when i can tho. I think spoiled is a little bit of a strong word lol, the single reason that SP are viable in the limited comps they play is pretty much solely down to MB being instant, if it wasn't RMD/Turbo/WDC/RLS to name but a few would shut you down so hard it wouldn't even be funny.

DP is on demand and with instant MB building orbs is not a big deal. As long as you're not delaying your horror + deep/sheep cross CC's too much, you're not losing out on anything.

Void Shield requires you to give up either 90% dispersion (and Wowhead's dispersion tooltip no longer says we can't cast while dispersed) or 60 second VE (kinda lackluster, but the only talent in the row that helps our party members). Hell, if you're being trained in Legion, what damage are you really going to be putting out? You no longer have instant MB from CoP, no FDCL MS procs, DP is gone, and SWD's spell power coefficient is (currently) a lot lower than live. I just can't imagine Void Shield being as substantial as you initially said. I can certainly see it becoming the default choice because of ease of use, but I doubt it'll be the best choice.

This is my main concern (and hopefully the reason we will get instant MB through pvp talents). Void shield will be pointless when trained as your damage output will be so low having to cast, and that's when you need the healing most. Having MB instant will at least guarantee some healing every 9s(that's if your shield is still up!!) if not we will be basically back to where we were in mists being priority trained constantly as we will be shut down so easily, in fact even easier since our heal now is the same school, so no duel school juking!! Hopefully they will see this, i know if i get beta i'll screaming to the high heavens about it!!!

SWP ticks have a chance to reset MB and make it instant, and you can use shadowy insight on top of that.

Not the case mate, Shadowy Insight is the only reset mechanic for MB, 10% chance on pain ticks, but it only resets the CD it doesn't make it instant.

[Luxeley]

How's it going... I am the rain. LOL Clarity of Power is gone, so is phantasm, void tendrils, angelic feathers and worst of all Spectral Guise. What's worse is, you're losing 3 instant cast abilities (COP, SUD and Devouring PLague) which means you're about as mobile as a stop sign now. Of course, things may change, something lost may show in a glyph or pvp talent, but I seriously doubt. The dmg will absolutely be insane, I can't argue that. But, with no mobility and less trickery, we're a sitting duck packing a nuclear weapon with not only a target on us, but also a bounty. I don't understand why you'd want more dmg in Legion. If anything, I wanted a snare removal along with a speed boost much like a mage or druid caster possesses.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's see how godly that spec will be without feathers and spectral guise.

I agree. Big damage means nothing in PVP without creating the right opportunity to use it. Plus, through talents, procs and what not, shadow priests will be losing 3 instant casts: surge of darkness, devouring plague and mind blast. Mobility just went from a 9 to a 3.

[RsinRC]

Well with the artifact talents we are getting a snare after using psychic horror. Not only that but with the talent Psychic voice, psychic horror will be useable every 15 seconds lol. I do see that we will be more susceptible to CC this time around but with enough VT's on targets we will surely be a bit tougher to kill.It also looks like we will be able to kite other players more efficiently now with our snares and stuns.

[dpqt]

Let's see how godly that spec will be without feathers and spectral guise.

And when literally the only thing we can cast all game is swp.

[RsinRC]

And when literally the only thing we can cast all game is swp.

You really think they're going to release a class that can't do anything?

[anon5123]

Do note that it's ALPHA, and will most likely change before live.

I wouldn't off making statements of "X class will be GOD!!!" when we're still in alpha. Don't get too excited.

[RsinRC]

Do note that it's ALPHA, and will most likely change before live.

I wouldn't off making statements of "X class will be GOD!!!" when we're still in alpha. Don't get too excited.

The God reference was only because we follow the Old Gods. Nothing more. And since we're a new revamped spec I wrote New Gods. =P

[dpqt]

You really think they're going to release a class that can't do anything?

3s meta would have to change significantly for spriest to be viable as it looks right now. Obviously I don't believe that they'll release it as is, just pointing out that as it is now, sp will not be viable in anything other than super casual 3s unless for some reason the meta becomes a wizard cleave fest. As in, the way it stands now - you wouldn't be able to do anything in a 3s game. If we weren't getting trained it might look ok as is, but the fact is we will just get trained harder than ever. Remembering that current talents look like they are going to be rewarding successful interrupts with even more lovely bonuses for kickbots.

- no escapes
- no distance maker / sprint
- literally our only damage dealing instant cast will be swp
- so much survivability and damage potential baked into vt and generating insanity which will just make us an even more prime target to prevent vt's going up or casts going out; any that we do manage to get up will most likely just get dispelled (reward is far greater for the healer than the dispel protection cost)
- if by some miracle you do manage to get your insanity up, the enemy team literally has a gradually increasing bar to let them prepare cooldowns or cc for exactly when your burst is available, as the insanity bar will be replacing the power bar.

only team utility scream/horror, any utility outside of that requires damage output which will be shut down as per above.
- no grip
- no mass dispel
- no feathers
- no guise to set up fears so good luck not getting peeled on every fear attempt anyway
- no dp
- no instant mb

that's not to say I don't hope that shadow comes out great, but claiming it's going to be amazing or even good for anything other than battlegrounds as it looks at the moment is pretty far-fetched.

[RsinRC]

3s meta would have to change significantly for spriest to be viable as it looks right now. Obviously I don't believe that they'll release it as is, just pointing out that as it is now, sp will not be viable in anything other than super casual 3s unless for some reason the meta becomes a wizard cleave fest. As in, the way it stands now - you wouldn't be able to do anything in a 3s game. If we weren't getting trained it might look ok as is, but the fact is we will just get trained harder than ever. Remembering that current talents look like they are going to be rewarding successful interrupts with even more lovely bonuses for kickbots.

- no escapes
- no distance maker / sprint
- literally our only damage dealing instant cast will be swp
- so much survivability and damage potential baked into vt and generating insanity which will just make us an even more prime target to prevent vt's going up or casts going out; any that we do manage to get up will most likely just get dispelled (reward is far greater for the healer than the dispel protection cost)
- if by some miracle you do manage to get your insanity up, the enemy team literally has a gradually increasing bar to let them prepare cooldowns or cc for exactly when your burst is available, as the insanity bar will be replacing the power bar.

only team utility scream/horror, any utility outside of that requires damage output which will be shut down as per above.
- no grip
- no mass dispel
- no feathers
- no guise to set up fears so good luck not getting peeled on every fear attempt anyway
- no dp
- no instant mb

that's not to say I don't hope that shadow comes out great, but claiming it's going to be amazing or even good for anything other than battlegrounds as it looks at the moment is pretty far-fetched.

You right on no escapes. We will have a sprint or speed boost. We have SW: P yea, we also have SW: D, Apparitions and shadowfiend as base abilities that are instant/passive. Not only that but all (with the exception of MF/MSear) of our casts will be 1.5 second base cast time. With all the crazy haste we're getting I bet we can easily get it to 1 sec if not less. Sure it might turn you off to cast but it is a caster spec and you can't tell me 1 sec casts hurt more than not.

VT is not worth dispelling as it insta fears them for 3 and casting VT is gonna take less than 1.5. Your insanity will always be going up no matter what as long as you're doing any kind of damage. I don't know what you mean about the bar thing you wrote. If you're talking about an Addon, then pick Edge of insanity. Which reminds me picking Edge of insanity you can literally have 20% boost in movement speed (If you pick Mania) till you decide when you want to burst.

I'm not entirely too sure but in the shadow talent calculator the Body and Soul tooltip says "Your Power Word Shield and Leap of Faith also increase your target's movement speed by 60% for 4 sec.
Also on that same page when you look at all the spells that Shadow will have access to, Mass Dispell AND Halo are still there as baseline class abilities.
You're right about the fear bombs but I don't think we'll need as much peeling as we currently need. DP is garbage compared to what we get in Legion. Insta MB was good I admit. The cast time on it is kinda on the low side though, and with Shadowy insight we'll have a lot of insanity coming in even though it isn't insta.

[Deleted]

One thing is for certain, with the amount of hard casting we will have to do frost mages are still going to be our best buddies in arena.

Getting 2 x VT up will be a hell of a lot easier with nova's and snares a plenty. However i'm not convinced that the 3s horror on VT dispel is punishing enough now, with how core it is becoming to how we will do damage but also suvivability makes a very good case as to why it should carry a far heavier penalty since a 3s cc in exchange for shutting down all your damage via dots and negating a shit load of healing from 1gcd every 8s is no trade off IMO, its a no brainer.

UA for locks carries a far heavier penalty but rightly so since it is also core to how affliction does damage, i would suggest that the fear should be 4s and grant you 25% of your insanity bar or maybe more on dispel, that way it is a real choice of do i want to take the cc now but risk the sp blowing us up earlier since i just gave him his burst...otherwise teams like TSG/Walkingdead/turbo will just steamroll you and dispell on cd.

[RsinRC]

With the release of the Alpha client we've gotten to finally see what all the talk and speculation has been culminating to. So far it's kind underwhelming. I would like to think Shadowform is 100% on at all times. Not a fan of being a reg priest and getting dark/shadows once in VF. I'm a fucking Shadow Priest. I would like to think that Mind blast having no cd in VF is bugged. 'Cuz that is extremely boring and lazy. The amount of time it takes to get to VF is like way too quick imo. It looks like we'll be in VF way more than in normal form which makes me think what is the purpose of having this mechanic?
I'm not sure why but they've put a couple of talents that make other talents useless. It's a massive waste of a talent spot.
The damage I've seen being put out is lacking but i'm not too worried about the damage right now. I am concerned about our gameplay. A lot of casting and our artifact ability Void Torrent is a cast as well. The way it's heading we will be in huge trouble if it continues to be this way. Our casts are fast but that only means other players can catch up really easy with the amount of casts we do. I love kiting and SP's got really good at it in WoD, it's disappointing to see it go. I'm still hoping for major tweaks and fixes.

Anyway I do like our Talents and I'd like to share a build I think would be pretty good.

- This build is all about damage and survival. Best in Duels, 1v2/3 and solo play in bg's.

PVP Build, Normal Talents

15 - Twist of Fate. With the amount of Casting we're going to have this will help the most in this tier and has great synergy with Void Shield. SW: V is second.

30 - Mania if you take Edge of Insanity, Body and Soul for everything else. Masochism is useless. The dot does damage but it isn't noticeable, if you're taking damage it is even more useless and with the artifact talent that reduces the dot damage. It makes me wonder what is the point of having that mechanic on Shadowmend.

45 - Mind Bomb. This talent will be awesome for solo play burst setups. The short CD is great the duration is short but followed by Psychic Horror(horror effect, not a stun) it'll make this a must have for the moment you want to unload big dick damage. Great for baiting a trinket as well. Dominate mind is a close second especially with the DM pvp talent which looks like it might make it into an instant disorient.

60 - Void Lord. This is where the extra amount of burst and heal will come into play. VF increases dmg/heals by 30%. This gives you an extra 10% to VF. With ToF, Void Shield and San'layn this will have us regenerate massive amounts of health and do massive amounts of damage.

75 - San'layn. the synergy of this talent with this build is best in this tier. I feel Shadowy insight is a waste considering how short MB's CD is and with Edge of insanity + the speed that we gain Insanity it's something I don't see us using unless Shadowy Insight increases MB's damage on proc.

90 - Power Infusion if it can't be purged/dispelled, Mindbender for everything else. The jump in haste is really noticeable and feels smooth but it can still be dispelled so keep that in mind. Mindbender is great for the extra damage or to keep players in combat. Shadow Crash is garbage. It's retardedly noticeable, takes a lot of time and only hits for 200% spellpower with a 30 cd. In comparison, Shadow Word: Void in the first tier goes straight to the target, hits harder @ 1+220% spell power, has a 20s cd and has 3 motherfucking charges..... /facepalm @ Shadow Crash.

100 - Legacy of the Void. I like legacy of the void. If you happen to choose Shadowy Insight it makes it more worthwhile. Only reason I don't pick Mind Spike is because it has no instant procs and it replaces Mind Flay. Mind Flay has more value to me because of it's utility. It's downside is that unfortunately it looks like it can be dispelled. Against a good dispeller, Mind Spike is best. Surrender to Madness feels like a gimmick in pvp for trolling or fun playstyles.

PVP Build, PvP Talents

1 - Gladiator's Sanctum.

2 - Mind Quickness.

3 - Void Shield. Best pvp talent we have imo. A 5s Vampiric Embrace that is 5x Stronger every 6 seconds. And stacks with San'layin + VE

4 - Edge of Insanity - This is the basis of my build. Increased damage by 20% @ 100 Insanity. Pseudo-permanent 20% increased movement speed with Mania. And the damage is good for Void Shield for increased healing. Imo it's better to have that constant 20% extra dmg rather than climbing in and out of VF with all the cc going on. It also lets you hold off for the exact/perfect moment to burst, activating VF for an extra 20% in damage (10% from normal VF and another 10% from VoidLord) for a total of 40% increased damage to burst with. Imagine this with ToF.

5 - Psychic Link. The weakest pvp tier. Mind Trauma is meh, SW: P is already instant and can be cast on the move. Using mindflay to refresh it does seem nice but I rather cast other spells since mind flay is at the bottom of my abilities to cast. Maybe good against stealth.

6 - Dominate Mind Talent. While Last Word is my favorite of the three it is only worth it against casters/healers, I love the increased damage it gives once you silence someone who is casting so I'll prolly run with this mostly. The dominate mind talent is pretty damn good though. Only issue is, it is way more valuable/desirable coupled with the Dominate Mind from the normal set of talents as it turns it into an insta sheep and lets you continue doing damage with your character. Would be epic if they give you a pet bar and let you give commands like attack, use a random ability and "move to" that hunters and locks have that sends the pet wherever you want. Why they took out mind controlling players as base line who tf knows but it's bullshit imo, especially since it takes place of a talent. Lazy design choice.

I'm not making an artifact talent summary since we will be able to use all of them at some point, so you can pick those at your own discretion.

This build is pretty straight forward. It feels like a give to take kind of playstyle. Give damage to receive healing. Might cast Shadowmend a lot less to help with all the casting we are already having to deal with. It also makes you feel a lot more in control of your setups.

My next PvP build will be for larger scale battles or group plays so stay tuned. Looking forward to ya feed back.

[Deleted]

Looks great with alot of potential, i especially like the synergy between Edge, mania, san'layn and VL.

But as per usual we will be fucked by one thing, the melee interrupt pain train, oh well, hopefully we will be more tanky now so not such a easy target, here's hoping

[nodq]

You're right though it isn't as different than it is now. We got spoiled with instant Mind Blast and the only damaging spell we really needed to juke has been VT. I like to juke veteran players with a flash heal in the face so I can use my damaging abilities but it looks like we wont have that now. However, that one talent, Void Shield, where we heal for 50% of the damage we deal for 5 seconds after using PW: Shield will help substantially. It's a mini Vampiric Embrace every 6 seconds. Imo that is huge especially in VForm.

Thats how it is for Affliction since WoD, no single Firespell (or any thing else) anymore. YOu basicly stand there doing NOTHING for 6 seconds after beeing locked out on any casted spell. It is bad design, because you can not prevent every interrupt int the game in an arena/pvp battle. That is impossible to do even for the best players, it will happen sometimes, and then... it feels bad. It is no fun mechanic at all beeing useless for couple of seconds in a row.

Imho, every caster DPS should have 2 schools of magic, 1 for dps and 1 for CC. And if a caster has heal, like shadow is going to have. It has to be on the same school as CC. Just like it is for Mage, Arcane school (CC mostly) and Frost/Fire for damage. Destruction WL has the same benefit okind of. Shadow school for CC and his Heals and big Damage CB. And fire for medium damage and ressource gainer.

When i play my Destruction WL it is always nice to have 2 schools and the opponent has to think about what to interrupt and what not. Then when i change to affli, people just tunnelvision interrupt the first spell i try to cast.... when i am not able to to juke it, yeh gg, 6 seconds useless.

I think we will have to see how it works out in LEGION with CC and all that, it seems they raising every CC to higher Coodlowns and some of them with a cast time, so it could be even more important to have 2 different schools of magic for casters. (1,5 sec cast for shadowfury?!).

For heal classes it is little bit more complicated, as i think no heal class should have spammable castable CC like cyclone, which is also the strongest cc in the game imho. So there is the question what would we give a healer to do when hes locked out on his healing spells (like holy)? beeing able to dispell at least? Able to use defense cooldowns, like Bubble etc? Or let them be able to cast damage spells when locked out on healing, and the other way around of course. Like Dennounce for example.

And i am pretty confused hy blizzard has it still going like it is at the moment, speccs with 1 school of magic. Just because they are so concerned about fun and gameplay exp all the time usually.