Holy power removed for Prot, but not ret :(

[Deleted]

I think Ret needs holy power, without it there isnt any real construct to the gameplay. Happy to see it disappear from Prot though, there it WAS truly garbage.

[deadmau]

Some specs are more convoluted, others are more direct, it's a matter of flavor and balance. The ret playstyle could be made more complicated with or without Holy Power, and it's nonsensical that you guys are ranting against the ressource when you actually simply don't like the concept of the spec.

The occasional deadspot is a deliberate thing and nothing negative. They wanted to move away from the silly playstyle of obsessing over cramming something into every available GCD. Ferals have those brief idle moments, fury warriors have them, a lot of specs do. That has nothing to do with "clunky". Ret plays very fluid overall.

I see nothing wrong with their concerns, I think both sides have a point. I think you need to gain a wider perspective.

I think Ret needs holy power, without it there isnt any real construct to the gameplay. Happy to see it disappear from Prot though, there it WAS truly garbage.

Non-ret, speaking garbage on Ret-matters, awesome. Please save it. You're proving the opposing point right, you just "think" holy power provides a "construct" to the gameplay, when in reality it's just a bandaid combo-point hand me down. They can take it away as others say and come up with something else not so bandaid. Use brain a bit more.

[Ealyssa]

Yeah that sucks imo, I want my HP as prot

I like the "stack haste for HP generation and SoR uptime". Sounds more fun that "stack random crit in hope of SoR charges proc". I'm a paladin, I don't want a wannabe shield block.

[Pull My Finger]

I see nothing wrong with their concerns, I think both sides have a point. I think you need to gain a wider perspective.

Well I'm obviously the one who has the wider perspective and is able to see the big picture, so ... no. As I said: they act as if something was broken where it's just a matter of flavor. It's a matter of right and wrong, and they're wrong.

[Ryme]

Lesser of two evils in my estimation, ret before holy power was so mindless and I don't know if I could trust blizzard to make a compelling rotation that's CD focused without it.

[muwatallis]

I never understood the addition of Holy Power in Cataclysm in the first place. It's utterly meaningless, unnecessary and irritating. WotLK paladin was the funniest of paladins to play with, no matter the spec. I'd love if they purge the paladins from the holy power entirely.

[Deleted]

How exactly is mashing the biggest button more engaging gameplay than building and spending holy power?

[derpkitteh]

I never understood the addition of Holy Power in Cataclysm in the first place. It's utterly meaningless, unnecessary and irritating. WotLK paladin was the funniest of paladins to play with, no matter the spec. I'd love if they purge the paladins from the holy power entirely.

i've been in love with my paladin since i started her, but wotlk was when i dedicated myself to her entirely.

then cata came... i got her to 85 and didn't play her anymore until the final patch, and even then it was only once. got her to 90 in mists, but still quit after hitting max. WoD was the most i've played her since wotlk, and that's only because they added the divine storm thing, that let me actually use the fucking spell.

i'm still in love with my pally, cause she's the center of so many good wow memories. but she'll never be good again until it goes back to wrath style.

[Haaz]

Well, seems like another thread where people qq for the sake of qqing, plenty of theese threads born last night.. Just reroll or something.

[Deleted]

Yeah, priests got rid of their orbs.
We get to be the lucky ones to keep them.

From throughput perspective, the existence of HP only hindered gameplay and caused much more brainpower to be spent on just working out how to min-max the bullshit.
Still, full potential will be coming 5 seconds or later into the fight, if they actually make our strongest spell a HP user, which logically should be so, not hammer of wrath.

RIP.

PS. I also quit for an extended period at the start of Cata. Rejoined later the same expansion going into MoP to play Holy, which was really fun and engaging up until WoD. Now we're seeing improvements on that part but ret is going to stay archaic I suppose.

[Gungnir]

In other words, you just don't like the spec. There's nothing wrong about it like some of you are trying to make it sound like. It's one of the more straightforward playstyles. Just like Enhancement doesn't have any complex dependencies and systems that tie into each other either, but is more a whack-a-mole thing, or Combat, which is a case of build up - spend - repeat, or Frost, which is basically smashing buttons in order of availability. Some specs are more convoluted, others are more direct, it's a matter of flavor and balance. The ret playstyle could be made more complicated with or without Holy Power, and it's nonsensical that you guys are ranting against the ressource when you actually simply don't like the concept of the spec.

The occasional deadspot is a deliberate thing and nothing negative. They wanted to move away from the silly playstyle of obsessing over cramming something into every available GCD. Ferals have those brief idle moments, fury warriors have them, a lot of specs do. That has nothing to do with "clunky". Ret plays very fluid overall.

That's the thing, it is highly personal and I don't enjoy what the spec has become.
>The occasional deadspot is a deliberate thing and nothing negative.
I have nothing against deadspots if it's tied to energy generation, but when it's solely tied to resources having RNG/procs is something that's detrimental to me.
There are a lot of people who shares my views in that Holy Power is nothing that we enjoy, and that we want it gone. I understand that it's something that you might enjoy, but I think there are a lot of people who wants Ret to go back to pre-Cata style of play.

Also was NadEFury said above;

full potential will be coming 5 seconds or later into the fight

The rampup time is also something I find very dull and can be incredibly frustrating.


tl;dr, Neither of us are in the wrong, we just like different things. There are people who enjoy HoPo, and there are a fair amount of us who can't stand it.
What I am confused however about is why Prot and Holy moved off of HoPo when they were actually quite enjoyable with that system. I like HoPo if it's implemented correctly and feels good. Current and past iterations of Ret just hasn't.

I will reserve my judgements about the improvements/changes until Beta comes along atleast, and I hope it plays well with the help of talents/artifact perhaps.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Am I the only one that felt that paladin were a class built around seals and aura?

I kind of wish they would've gone this way. I don't know, maybe I'm alone in this regard.

[marinos]

Worst decision ever,they should have kept holy power for prot also. Really worried that the gameplay will be not that engaging.

[Vuagnon]

Did Tyrael turn into a Paladin when he lost his divine powers? Wtf?

[Shelly]

I'm perfectly fine with holy power on my Ret. I even like it, I think it's an interesting pooling system and much better than say Arms which is all about pool up and dump.

But I also love playing Divine Purpose Casinodin. So the holy power actually adds to the spec and for the most part RNG is in our favor so there's very little downtime.

Really since the loss of Inquisition I've had very few gripes about my paladin. I do wish we'd kept some of the minor utility - that minor AoE HoT on a 1-minute CD, various blessings, auras, etc - but for the most part those are minor gripes and I think we're in a good spot.

That said reading the - incomplete - ability list has me a little worried.

Crusader Strike

Melee Range, Instant, 4.5 sec cooldown
An instant strike that causes moderate Physical damage and grants 1 Holy Power

Blade of Justice

12 yd range, Instant, 12 sec cooldown
Strikes an enemy with the Blade of Justice, dealing strong Holy damage and generating 2 Holy Power

Judgment

30 yd range, Instant, 12 sec cooldown
Judge an enemy, dealing moderate Holy damage and causing the target to take 30% increased damage from your Holy Power generators and consumers for 6 sec.

Templar’s Verdict

3 Holy Power, Melee Range, Instant
A powerful weapon strike that deals massive Holy damage.

Basically we'll be getting HP to 5, wait for the CD on blade of justice to hit 3s, then judge, TV, CS, TV, BoJ. Then wait around another 6s before we can hit hard again.

In other words it's colossus smash style pool dumping which is a bit of a turn off. Makes me hope that we can get a talent or ability that either lowers the CD on judgment or has a chance to reset it.

It's bringing back Inquisition, though at least in a more dynamic way.

[Rizendragon]

So... holy power generators for ret have a 20% chance to generate additional HP... So instead of our finishers having RNG, their making out generators have RNG.

This was actually the way it worked when they were first implementing HoPo.

I like Holy Power staying for Ret. It makes it less whack-a-mole and more of a spec that you need to be disciplined. There is still a priority system, but having a hard hitting finisher is essential. For anyone hoping that WotLK Ret is coming back I'm sorry, but cooldown restricted specs are a thing of the past.

[Zylos]

I love holy power...sad to see it go for prot.

[Rizendragon]

tl;dr, Neither of us are in the wrong, we just like different things. There are people who enjoy HoPo, and there are a fair amount of us who can't stand it.
What I am confused however about is why Prot and Holy moved off of HoPo when they were actually quite enjoyable with that system. I like HoPo if it's implemented correctly and feels good. Current and past iterations of Ret just hasn't.

I will reserve my judgements about the improvements/changes until Beta comes along atleast, and I hope it plays well with the help of talents/artifact perhaps.

What I'm confused about is how anyone like Holy Power for Holy. It was terrible for that spec, especially once a cast time was put on the spenders.

OT: Inquisition was my biggest issue when Ret was redesigned. Once that went away the spec was much more fun to play.

[KurenaiXIII]

Mark me down as one that doesn't mind the whole Holy Power thing. Maybe I've just gotten used to it.

I personally find the cooldown restriction to be far more limiting--I don't necessarily want to be GCD-locked, pressing buttons every 1.5s forever, but having the rotational gaps that occur when I've hit everything makes me sadface sometimes.

[Deleted]

Rets working in an awkward subtlety way with a small playstyle enhance but without any mention in what they gonna offer to high end pve and pvp content. Taking various tier set bonus that had positive feedback and implementin them in the class is a good thought but it doesnt touch the heart of the problems a melee class that is not aiming for topin meters has to deal with when in last 6 expansions almost always 1 more melee comes in competition (in this one may have 2 takin īnto account dh and weirdo hunters)